[NFP] Why/when to build encampments?

[sethryclaus]

I currently only build encampments if I'm going for a domination victory. I often don't research Bronze Working for a long time and only if I think I can fit a spearman (not a swordsman) into my builds for the sake of the eureka chain.

In most of my games (all deity lately), I build 1 slinger then buy 2 and upgrade them to archers.
To me, this is by far the most efficient use of gold in the entire game because of how discounted it is and the 3 eurekas and 1 inspiration that result.

Then I build walls in whichever city I think will be attacked and that's sufficient to hold off an AI.
Ultimately, I end up with a warrior, 3 archers, 2 catapults and 2 galleys.
If you ignore the bottom of the tech tree until you have a bunch of universities, these units provide most of the eurekas and inspirations you need. Sometimes I throw in a spearmen for the 2 eurekas it provides or horsemen if I need extra muscle.

Most of the swordsmen strategies people post leave me asking, "what do you do when you don't get iron and how do you tech/civic?" Likewise, what do you do when you don't get niter and then oil? I only do that with civs that have swordsmen that don't require resources.

What on earth am I missing? I know there are a bunch of eurekas and inspirations from encampments but they're mostly about the bottom side of the tech tree (i.e. not economy or tech) and a single spearmen and some great people fills in the gaps really easily.
If I go mid-topside on the tech tree, I always get field cannons before the AI simply because I'm rocking universities everywhere and have hit a bunch of great people by virtue of rushing econ.

I really enjoy playing encampment based Civs but I get the impression that everyone rushes an encampment in their capitol and I just don't get it given that you can ignore that part of the tech tree incredibly easily without any risk.

Note: I have used IZs and harbours even before GS. It's kind of dreamy for me on the latest patches
Note 2: I always balance chopping with the corollary that I have to build a builder. I have rushed pyramids with Liang in addition to chopping an army, and that makes sense to me. That's pretty specific though and, again, is hopelessly unreliable unless your swordsmen don't require iron.

Thanks for any responses and big thanks in general to the folks on these forums.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

When you have a City State Quest for them. Or for a GG.

In all seriousness though: You want 2 Encampments for a science victory, but you only need them late. Aside from these fringe cases, you only ever want Encampments either for defense (walls are superior imho) or when building a sizeable army (if you want a small or medium army it is likely better to just build units).

Getting one for the inspiration is also fine, though I prefer conquering that one Encampment and building a Campus/HS/TS instead.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

The main reason to build encampments is to earn Great Generals. If you don't have a resource you need it can be a problem but the easiest answer is to take a city that has it.

 

[tiamats4esgares]

I basically never build them unless going for domination.

 

[FlyinPhil]

I don't always build them, but I do in probably about 80-90% of my games, and for three reasons:

- Gunpowder eureka
- Quicker unit builds...for eurekas/inspirations (Musketmen for Replaceable Parts, Tanks for Composites(?), quicker Corps/Army builds)
- Defend specific gaps against aggressive civs

I tend to play with VERY limited military; for example, I very rarely get the Mercenaries inspiration, but I still find the Encampment useful. It also works towards the Civil Engineering inspiration, and if I have a landlocked capital, it contributes to the science victory (using the Integrated Space Cell policy card). I do tend to use it mostly on mid-game, frontier settled cities which are weaker and more easily captured, and because it is low on my priority list.

 

[Bibor]

One encampment is all you need, and it better be cranking out units 24/7 or it’s a waste of perfectly good hammers.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

One encampment is all you need, and it better be cranking out units 24/7 or it’s a waste of perfectly good hammers.

I guess this means you should never build it in the Capital?
What city would you suggest to build it if you do?

 

[sethryclaus]

Sweet, thanks all - sounds like I wasn't alone.
I do enjoy a good walls/encampment on my rear border in a wide game.

Someone on the "whats still wrong with Civ" thread mentioned how the Civ 5 AIs would suddenly buy out your bordering city states and go deep on you if you didn't maintain an army. They should bring that back - I think the main reason I don't build encampments is because it's so easy to peace out if you're able to win with the cities you have.

 

[monikernemo]

For science victory:
To stockpile aluminium and also 15% boost to space race projects in cities that you do not have a harbour/seaport.

Otherwise, era sore from military academy is pretty neat.

 

[Bibor]

I guess this means you should never build it in the Capital?
What city would you suggest to build it if you do?

I started building encampments as my first district in a forward settle, and then either chopping in walls or barracks, depending on expansion plan. Its pefectly okay to have a dedicated city to hammers and units. You can always add a campus or whatever you need. Even if you don’t need the units, the eurekas like “kill a unit with a spear/knight/musket” basically yield free science.

barracks before units can be a reasonable plan if timing allows for it, as 25% more XP can be quite valuable if used right and combined with the great general card, allowing for a sword rush great general timing

 

[sethryclaus]

I started building encampments as my first district in a forward settle, and then either chopping in walls or barracks

Chopping is what I was missing thanks. Presumably also standard game speed or slower too so that units have a chance to do something.

I was reading the T100 thread last night and realised that chopping is still how the game is played. I stopped doing it after they patched it ages ago.

 

[Bibor]

Chopping is what I was missing thanks. Presumably also standard game speed or slower too so that units have a chance to do something.

I was reading the T100 thread last night and realised that chopping is still how the game is played. I stopped doing it after they patched it ages ago.

Key chopping that doesn’s sap your long-term production capability is a must. Hills, riversides and tiles adjacent to volcanoes are prime candidates. Magnus tours are still a thing.

Lumbermills are obviously very valuable, but cities relying on lumbermills for production are not supposed to be production cities - presumably, they serve a different function like being a trader port, grabbing resources, blocking the AI or rare location benefits like natural wonders.

 

[Victoria]

t I get the impression that everyone rushes an encampment in their capitol

This happens in MP all the time and rarely in SP without being a dom.
So you are on the right track.

 

[TheFinalChiTown]

Two campuses then a discounted encampment is a pretty solid way to start off a dom game.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Two campuses then a discounted encampment is a pretty solid way to start off a dom game.

I've been starting my domination pretty early with warriors, war-carts, archers and horses.
Usually I can capture an Encampment.
Would you build an Encampment if you conquer one?
I've been able to get 3 or 4 Capitals by turn 100 on standard maps but the push can stall out or other problems pop up that slow me down.
Some people say not to start war before turn 100 as you want to get a strong economy/empire up first.
I guess you could start in around turn 80 and try to finish the sweep in 40 turns.
Just throwing out thoughts as I am trying to get my domination victories over by turn 125 to 150.

 

[Victoria]

as I am trying to get my domination victories over by turn 125 to 150.

It is like any victory, concentrate on it, split armies, chop in units. What is the point in districts when it will be over before you need em. Pillage is your friend, Raid is her boyfriend.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

It is like any victory, concentrate on it, split armies, chop in units. What is the point in districts when it will be over before you need em. Pillage is your friend, Raid is her boyfriend.

I get it.
It's just hard to tell yourself you don't need things you always build.
In the last year or so I have realized my gameplay habits are hard to break.

 

[Victoria]

In the last year or so I have realized my gameplay habits are hard to break.

ditto

 

[Casualty of war]

If I'm totally dedicated to chasing down a Domination Victory, not just annexing a neighbor or two on my way to some other victory, I build Encampments first chance I can get. They're a Hammer and a point of Culture, and I don't want to have the delay of waiting for my city to get big enough to accommodate a second District if I plop a Campus or Holy Site down first.

It used to be so much easier when the Horses and Iron weren't sneaky. The best DomV runs are just a three step Mining-Bronze Working-Iron Working (or a Animal Husbandry-Archery-Horseback Riding) and picking the beeline that doesn't match up to your strategics can just sink your strategy.

 

[pkaem]

I just got inspired from here and started a game with korea, standart / small / pangea / deity. Just dumb mining into Bronze into iron working. Three cities with religous settlements. Encampment, Barracke, 2 x projects. Two swords and a warrior with gernaral launched the attack on teddy at t 53. Followed up by two horses and another sword chop. Teddy is dead. When I go straight for tomyris now, I am afraid there will be pikes and crossbows. But it works.