Why whip wonders?

[cain3456]

In a game I'm currently playing, I whipped a wonder in my capital, so I should get it next turn, right? During the interturn, I get a message that I can no longer build it and the wonder was built "in a faraway land". That hardly seems fair, after I whipped half my population in the capital.

 

[God-Emperor]

You jumped the gun...

Unless you are playing multiplayer with simultaneous turns, nobody but you can do anything on your turn. Therefore, the wonder was actually completed before your turn started.

The messages of what everyone else did between your turns are timed to happen at some rate where you can actually read them before they get pushed off the screen by the later messages so it can take a while for all of them to be shown. You evidently whipped some of your population away before it had a chance to tell you that someone else had already finished it before your turn started.

But it is not a complete loss. The production you spent on the wonder is given to you as money (known around here as "fail gold"). So in this case, you also converted some population into some money.

It might be nice if the game removed the already completed wonder from your build queue at the start of the turn instead of noticing that it is built elsewhere at the end of your turn, but they didn't add a specific check for this. The actual production of things in the build queue is done at the end of your turn, which is why you can whip a defender and it appears in the city before the enemy can attack: the actual production happens at the end of your turn before their turn starts.

 

[Windsor]

Always check the advisor screen before you whip a wonder. It will tell you if the wonder is already built. If it's not been built then you'll get it.

 

[lymond]

try not to whip wonders unless you have to. Whip into wonders.

IN SP, the ties goes to the human in most cases. This wonder was built the turn before and would have been announced in the alerts. You don't get the fail message until the next turn though if you are building the wonder.

 

[Defiant47]

IN SP, the ties goes to the human in most cases.

Technically, there are no "ties". Every player takes their turn in order, and when they hit "End Turn", their stuff happens, and the turn moves on to the next player.

In this case, the "stuff" can be production, meaning that a wonder that takes 1 more turn to be built would be completed when you hit end turn, before the other players get a chance to start their turns.

 

[Army of Scouts]

try not to whip wonders unless you have to. Whip into wonders.

IN SP, the ties goes to the human in most cases. This wonder was built the turn before and would have been announced in the alerts. You don't get the fail message until the next turn though if you are building the wonder.

In SP, the tie seems to go to the human because the human has the first turn in every custom game. But, I sometimes play the earth map that comes with the game as the americans and they go last because they are the americans even though I'm the human player. In that Earth scenario the turn order is fixed.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The messages of what everyone else did between your turns are timed to happen at some rate where you can actually read them before they get pushed off the screen by the later messages so it can take a while for all of them to be shown. You evidently whipped some of your population away before it had a chance to tell you that someone else had already finished it before your turn started.

I wish that time were adjustable. I can read around 3-4 times that speed comfortably and waiting for that junk to scroll literally slows down play rate. It's better than civ V's approach where you have to mouse over everything to read it and the spam of similar buttons can send them off-screen, but it's still bad design that you can't see things that were intended to be seen between turns because the game can't keep up...even when it frivolously moves stacks unit by idiot unit as AI.

 

[God-Emperor]

There are 3 global defines that appear to be related to the message timing (I have not messed with them, so I can't be sure - they could have something to do with random events): EVENT_MESSAGE_TIME, EVENT_MESSAGE_TIME_LONG, and EVENT_MESSAGE_STAGGER_TIME. These are set to 10, 20, and 3 respectively. I suspect that the value of 3 for EVENT_MESSAGE_STAGGER_TIME is the interval between messages in seconds.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

There are 3 global defines that appear to be related to the message timing (I have not messed with them, so I can't be sure - they could have something to do with random events): EVENT_MESSAGE_TIME, EVENT_MESSAGE_TIME_LONG, and EVENT_MESSAGE_STAGGER_TIME. These are set to 10, 20, and 3 respectively. I suspect that the value of 3 for EVENT_MESSAGE_STAGGER_TIME is the interval between messages in seconds.

Ooooh, very useful. These values are going to be dropped ASAP. Thank you!

 

[Defiant47]

In SP, the tie seems to go to the human because the human has the first turn in every custom game.

Not necessarily - or at least, I don't believe so. I remember a few times when I went into worldbuilder (on a custom game) and noticed that some civilizations had settled their first city, while others were still waiting as they didn't get their first turn yet.

There are no ties, since everything happens immediately when you press end turn. You complete your research for liberalism and you complete production of the wonder. Then, and only after, does the turn go to the next player.

So it is not possible to get a tie, really.

I wish that time were adjustable. I can read around 3-4 times that speed comfortably and waiting for that junk to scroll literally slows down play rate. It's better than civ V's approach where you have to mouse over everything to read it and the spam of similar buttons can send them off-screen, but it's still bad design that you can't see things that were intended to be seen between turns because the game can't keep up...even when it frivolously moves stacks unit by idiot unit as AI.

You can just click the event log.

 

[cain3456]

Thanks everyone. I went to the turn before and it showed up on the wonders list as being completed. Didn't see it in the event log.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You can just click the event log.

Forcing extra player actions is a root of bad GUI, not a solution to it.

Though as per above at least this aspect can be customized, unlike the game lying to you.

 

[Skallagrimson]

You can just click the event log.

There's a bug in that with espionage attacks. I'll click a message saying some spy destroyed a mine, for example, and it takes me nowhere near anything that's been destroyed. You have to click the icon of the actual attack while it's on-screen to see where it happened. If I'm in the middle of some combat and a spy attack happens, I'm screwed for the next half hour searching for what got zapped. I don't suppose BUG mod fixes that?

 

[The7Sins]

There's a bug in that with espionage attacks. I'll click a message saying some spy destroyed a mine, for example, and it takes me nowhere near anything that's been destroyed. You have to click the icon of the actual attack while it's on-screen to see where it happened. If I'm in the middle of some combat and a spy attack happens, I'm screwed for the next half hour searching for what got zapped. I don't suppose BUG mod fixes that?

It must as I use the event log to trace back Spy attacks as usually I'm in the middle of something when the notice pops up and can't use the icon.

 

[AlphaShard]

The event log works fine for me.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Okay, weird, sometimes the event log click takes me to where it happened, and sometimes not.

 

[DragonKnight]

question to see if I follow this build at end turn concept...

does that mean, if you city is undefended, but you have 1 turn until your unit is built, and the enemy is one square away...
When you hit the end turn button the unit would be built, and there to defend?

 

[Windsor]

does that mean, if you city is undefended, but you have 1 turn until your unit is built, and the enemy is one square away...
When you hit the end turn button the unit would be built, and there to defend?

Yes

 

[Skallagrimson]

But not promoted with anything, and gaining no defense bonuses, so often weaker than you might expect from the unit type, e.g. a longbow.

 

[DragonKnight]

what about bonuses for stuff that is automatic for the unit?