1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Why won't Great Engr build Internet?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by russinmn, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. russinmn

    russinmn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Mounds View, MN, USA
    I got the Great Engr by learning Fission first. I tried to rush the Internet. It is blacked out. I have used past GE's to rush Wonders. What's so special about the Internet? Is Al Gore no longer in office? Is it because he's an Oscar winner?:crazyeye:
     
  2. KMadCandy

    KMadCandy giggling permanoob

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,993
    Location:
    Peepsville
    it's because the internet is technically a Project not a Wonder. you can't use GEs to rush projects (apollo program, manhattan project, and SDI are projects too). they also won't rush space ship parts or any units, in case you wondered.

    why are those 4 things projects and not wonders? i have no idea.
     
  3. The Lance

    The Lance Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    108
    because they aren't actual physical objects, they are all things that occurred and grew over time. The Apollo program lasted for decades, the Manhattan project was a weapons development program, SDI is actually a government initiative to develop a space based missile defense platform, and the internet is well we all know what the internet is.
    Everything classified a wounder is, or at least was, a physical object.
     
  4. DrewBledsoe

    DrewBledsoe Veteran QB

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Cheering For Mr Sanchez
    Nearly, but no biscuit, by your reckoning, THe Great Wall should be a project (grew over time and took forever to build), and the United Nations, a building representing a concept, was never more apt... Ok, sorry I'm being picky, but the projects are really just abitary decisions by the programming team
     
  5. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    5,603
    Location:
    Canada
    Balance...
     
  6. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,121
    Location:
    Seattle
    really, i think people need to start looking at a game inspired by history, not a history inspired by game.
     
  7. trundle

    trundle Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    120
    Agreed -- I think it's purely a balance issue... any attempt to rationalize it some other way is probably going to fall apart on closer scrutiny. It's like asking why one item is a national wonder (Mt. Rushmore) and another is a World Wonder (Statue of Liberty). Game Balance is the only reasonable explanation you'll find.
     
  8. The Lance

    The Lance Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    108
    The great wall is an actual brick and mortar object, and the UN an actual building (a very nice one actually) that houses a sadly inept world governance organization. The "concept" the UN stands for could be represented in a dozen ways; the League of Nations, the Hague, Rome, even the EU.
    Looking through the wonders, the only one that doesn't seem to fit this pattern is rock and roll. All the other wonders are physical objects, however none of the projects are.

    Besides if they are just for balance, why put projects in at all?
     
  9. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    5,603
    Location:
    Canada
    Wonders' wonders.

    Why put wonders in at all, when you have a perfectly working game without them with all the balance issues worked out? Wonders make the game more interesting. Projects subsequently make the wonders more interesting (or the other way around... whatever you get my point).
     
  10. trundle

    trundle Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    120
    Um, the UN is most definitely *not* a building. There are a few buildings that house parts of the UN (some in NY, some in Vienna, some in Geneva), but the UN itself is an international organization. That's like saying that Congress and the Capitol Building are the same thing.

    Hollywood is only a brick and mortar object in the same way that St. Louis or Duluth is. It's not in the game as a wonder because of it's physicality; it's in there because of the cultural objects it produces.

    You could say that the Internet is a physical object (in the form of several million miles of copper wiring, switches, routers, etc.) just as easily. The Manhattan Project likewise resulted in physical objects: Fat Man and Little Boy.

    Because they all perform necessary and/or interesting game functions. However, the ability to rush any of them opens the door to some pretty obvious exploits, so they have to distinguish them from wonders. It would make 1-tech advantages absolutely game breaking and narrow down feasible choices for the end game (the ability to rush the internet, for instance, would mean that Fiber Optics should be beelined in nearly every game). The designers wanted the modern age to have just as many meaningful choices as the Ancient Age. I don't think they fully pulled it off (in practice, you're usually locked into 1 or maybe 2 possible victory types by this point anyway), but I can definitely understand why they needed some wonders to be unrushable.

    The only one I don't really agree with as a project (from a balance standpoint) is the Apollo Program; as the long as the actual SS parts remained unrushable I can't really see any major abuse potential. The only time I can see it even making a significant difference is if someone rushes for Fiber Optics (for the Internet) while ignoring rocketry -- rushing the Apollo Program would allow them to catch up in the SS much quicker than usual. But it's a pretty unique set of circumstances that makes this gambit worthwhile (extremely high production, less research than at least two opponents but enough research to beat them to Fiber Optics by beelining, and some condition that makes conquest/domination less desirable) so I can't imagine it would alter the game all that much.
     
  11. Veritass

    Veritass Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,198
    Location:
    Southern California
    The Internet is just a bunch of tubes.
    How hard could it be to rush?
     
  12. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,710
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    well it takes a lot of standardization, meaning you must talk to hordes of people before actually setting up a common protocole:rolleyes:
     
  13. Veritass

    Veritass Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,198
    Location:
    Southern California
    Surely if I can rush the Space Elevator, which is just a collection of carbon nanotubes, I can rush the Internet, which is just a collection of electrical tubes.
     
  14. Stolen Rutters

    Stolen Rutters Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,100
    Location:
    Michigan
    That would be more like EUII or Romance of the Three Kingdoms maybe, not Civ IV.

    I had no clue you couldn't rush some of the later projects with GEs. Good to know.
     
  15. LucyDuke

    LucyDuke staring at the clock

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    13,582
    Location:
    where mise
    Until somebody points me in the direction of Rock & Roll, the project/wonder distinction is a matter of balance to handle great engineers and rushing, and has nothing to do with whether the inspiration was or was not a concrete structure. There's two cents for ya.
     
  16. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    862
    The internet is not a dump truck, that's why you can't rush it.
     
  17. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    5,603
    Location:
    Canada
    It's a series of tubes (as was mentioned earlier), so you should be able to rush it!
     
  18. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,121
    Location:
    Seattle

    Perhaps you're right. I just think that its ridiculous that people go into a hissy fit because some things are historically untrue or "inaccurate" in a game. it's like looking at the gospels in the new testament as inspired vs. literal. Im in the inspired camp both bible and Civ IV
     
  19. The Lance

    The Lance Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    108
    who's hissy fitting?
     
  20. aronnax

    aronnax Let your spirit be free

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    6,344
    Location:
    Air Temple Island
    Even if it could be rushed, wont using a Great scientist make more sense?
     

Share This Page