Why won't they capitulate ?

[Tennyson]

I enjoy having Vassals. That way I don't have to incorporate expensive cities into my empire. Once or twice I've given a border city back to the vassal; more often, when I'm conquering a civ, I will raze his cities near my border and settle my own. Then I can take his other cities and give them back later, if necessary, while still getting my expansion needs satisfied - plus, more importantly, any resources they have that I want.

And while you can't declare war on your vassal, it leaves me free to vassalize some other unlucky soul. Repeat the process until you have the victory condition you desire.

I've even started experimenting with cooperative research - since they can't trade away what I give them, I research the important techs and leave non-critical techs to them. Then when I go to trade one of my cool techs for one of their second rate ones, they end up offering me all their gold too.

 

[Arnesson]

I don't really see the point of vassalization anyway. If you're that much ahead of them why not just make peace and then take them over whenever you want to? If you force them to capitulate you CAN'T declare war and it just sucks. Last game on Monarch I took over all of Ghandi's cities except a few random ones and vassalized him, and every once in a while Delhi would go into revolt wanting to defect back to him. ugh. And I couldn't do anything about it. The bonuses of vassalization just seem so weak anyway... if you're that much more powerful they're likely incredibly weak or you're incredibly strong and they wouldn't be of any help in a war anyway... Only possible reason I could see is so you can reach that extra little for the domination limit.

Vassals will vote the same way you do on UN resolutions. That can be useful, not only for a diplomatic victory, but also to control the outcome when a resolution is proposed (assuming that you are not the SG in the first place).

 

[SickCycle]

Vassals will vote the same way you do on UN resolutions. That can be useful, not only for a diplomatic victory, but also to control the outcome when a resolution is proposed (assuming that you are not the SG in the first place).

My vassals have always voted for themselves if they are up for election.. then they get to decide the resolutions and they never vote the same as me in that situation.

I actually had one win a diplomatic victory, I was doing a one city challange type deal only not officially, I was only keeping one super city for the fun, I took about 9 coastal cities then colonized them immediatly, he got all my techs and I was very much ahead, I then declared war on the entire world and let my vassal kill everyone while he was running universal suffrage I just kept giving him like 10,000 gold at a time

Before he got me a domination victory he had elected himself head of *MY* U.N. . .

and I couldn't declare war because he was *MY* colony... I demanded every resource he had and was a total dictator and he still wouldn't refuse ever.. there was nothing I could do to get him to even get a -1, it was frustrating.

I didn't much care until I noticed the Diplomatic victory come up as a resolution when he controlled half the world and I was still just playing around with my one super city...

He won but I kept playing just so I could destroy him for defying my rule.. which I did and I felt much better when he had a -70 you nuked us and a -44 you razed one of our cities

.. by the end of the game the entire map was one giant sand pit..

 

[Percy]

I wouldn't put it past you to stop answering to this thread once you've checked the save and seen how deeply mistaken you are.

Way too easy.

 

[Strategos]

I find that the best way to make someone your vassal is to ensure that the above criteria are true (size, pop, etc.), and then take their capital. Once you have that, they usually capitulate in the same turn. Then I usually give it back because its in a bad spot.

 

[mudphud]

Getting a good vassal is tricky. In my experience it seems to work best if you take a few cities and then have a stack parked near another city that can clearly take the city. You don't want to totally cripple your opponent otherwise they seem to be less likely to capitulate and they aren't such a useful vassal.

 

[vicawoo]

I did an OCC with permanent alliances. I was hoping for one of them OCC culture victories, but Wang Kon (#2) turned out to be more interested in building units.

Anyway, somebody offered to become our vassal, and I agreed. Turns out, your permanent ally offers ALL your techs to your vassal, which is pretty annoying when the vassal refuses to gift techs. He ended up breaking it off midway through the space race. So never take vassals if you have a permanent ally.

 

[IKILL4LAFS]

What tech do u need to make capitulation an option? I thought it was feudalism, but I did a feudalism slingshot and capitulation doesnt come up when you talk to the other civs. Do both people need to have fuedalism or is there something else im missing?

 

[Khan Quest]

Slightly off topic...
I never vasselize an opponent if they have any cities on MY continent.
But, I will as soon as my continent is clear. If their only city is a toehold on another continent, the presence of the capitol and culture that goes along with it, can be a pain for another opponent. This could also offer a nice staging point for an invasion.
As sickcycle said, beware of refusing capitulation, or you may find yourself at war with another rival who will capitlate them. Once offered, I make peace within a few turns. I will go all out trying to finish them off or grab another city or three, pillage what I can, or just make peace.

 

[mice]

About the effect of solver's patch, I think it might have something to do with it.
I played a game where Churchill refused to vassalize. I got tired of him defying resolutions so I attacked him. He had ONE city left, and died. So he refused to vassal up with one measley city.

There's something wrong there.

 

[Percy]

Thank you mice, that's exactly the kind of feedback i was looking for =)

 

[TheLastOne36]

i had ghandi ask to capitulate to me ounce.

 

[mice]

I played a game where Churchill refused to vassalize. I got tired of him defying resolutions so I attacked him. He had ONE city left, and died. So he refused to vassal up with one measley city.

I had a dig around for the save but it's a needle in a haystack.

I play solver's patch because I like corporations,but really I think we need to wait for the official patch and then hope that someone says if the code re. vassals has changed.

 

[colony]

I'm using Solver's patch and Saladin would capitulate to me, so I'm not quite sure what's wrong.

I'm not sure what's happened to the AIs tendency to capitulate in BtS, but they seem to be far more willing to do it than in Warlords (though that isn't based off a large number of games), so at least there's some chance of getting a vassal that's useful for more than adding to your domination numbers and the extra face.

And yes it's definately time you tried Monarch

 

[mice]

I'm not sure what's happened to the AIs tendency to capitulate in BtS, but they seem to be far more willing to do it than in Warlords (though that isn't based off a large number of games), so at least there's some chance of getting a vassal that's useful for more than adding to your domination numbers and the extra face.

I've noticed them giving in sooner, and , much much later. I'm wondering if it is something to do with islands. My Churchill episode, his last city was an island. It might mess with the relative land % (?)