Will a no-T&L-required patch be released?

[ZubieMaster]

And I don't see what this has to do with a thread discussing Hardware T&L issues, which quite obviously you aren't experiencing.

Well, you aren't experiencing the problems either, yet here you are posting in the thread, which is even more perplexing. Why the crusade to try to prove to everyone how much their systems suck? Again, *that isn't the point*. People *know* exactly what their system is, they don't need you to float down from the heavens to explain what's wrong with their video card. People *know* T&L is required, they just are hoping by voicing their displeasure (read: whining) perhaps something will be done. If you think it's a waste of time or stupid, fine, but please consider just letting people vent. They are sad enough they can't play the game, what do you gain by rubbing their noses in it?

 

[flub]

Thank you ZubieMaster. You could not have said it any better.

 

[Willem]

Well, you aren't experiencing the problems either, yet here you are posting in the thread, which is even more perplexing. Why the crusade to try to prove to everyone how much their systems suck? Again, *that isn't the point*. People *know* exactly what their system is, they don't need you to float down from the heavens to explain what's wrong with their video card. People *know* T&L is required, they just are hoping by voicing their displeasure (read: whining) perhaps something will be done. If you think it's a waste of time or stupid, fine, but please consider just letting people vent. They are sad enough they can't play the game, what do you gain by rubbing their noses in it?

First of all, I don't even have the game yet, so of course I'm not experiencing any of the problems. I just can't afford to buy it right now, having lost my job a short while ago. And I'm just trying to spare people from their false hope that somehow their problems are going to be resolved. It's not going to happen! The game was designed with this requirement in mind, and they're not going to completely rewrite it so that a small minority of laptop users can run the game.

There's seems to be a complete unwillingness on the part of laptop people to accept that their rigs just aren't capable of playing the game. I would even go so far as to call it an elitist attitude. "I paid lots of money for my machine and I demand that the game will run on it." I'm just trying to tell people how it is, the truth, yet I'm being attacked from all sides for being honest about the issue. It's not my problem if many people can't handle the truth.

And frankly, I'm getting tired of it. I'm spending hours just replying to posts from people jumping down my throat for trying to be helpful. Go ahead and sulk if you like, I don't have time for your temper tantrums anymore. I want to get out of this sand box and be involved in something a bit more adult. Have fun clinging to false hope.

 

[Comraddict]

@ zuby, TnL came with geforce256 and savage 2000. tnt2 is directx 6 graphic card, just like intel

 

[bio_hazard]

I'll admit I'm one of those people who didn't really research the ins and outs of the graphics cards. I saw people discuss tech specs pre-release and the impression was that "most recent computers should run this" or "any card made since 2000 should have no problem with this game" I don't remember any dire warnings pre-release that the majority of laptops would not be able to run this game. this would have been helpful information, but you can hardly fault Firaxis/Take2 from not scaring people away. But buyer beware...

My decision making for this game was undoubtedly Bayesian. I had a strong predisposition that a relatively new computer should run this game, because Civ is a franchise that has relied more on content innovation rather than simply technological innovation. Also, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but in general the pace of computer improvement has slowed a tad since the late 90's/early '00's, so computers should have a longer work-life than they did 5-10 years ago.

If nothing else, this experience will make me pay more attention to the fine print.

Given how frequently I've had to move my laptop around (from field site to school to home to school again, and from my desk to meetings, powerpoint presentations, etc), a desktop would not have worked for me at all, and I definitely couldn't have justified another $1000+ for a "gaming platform." This is really a secondary-use machine since I loves my Powerbook, and I'm just thrilled that the mac port is coming so quickly (and I've been more or less assured from one of the aspyr developers that most mac laptops are ahead of the curve graphics-wise and probably fewer will the same T&L issues).

I can't remember where my train of thought was going, so I'll end it there!

 

[Mr. Hyperbole]

Well, you aren't experiencing the problems either, yet here you are posting in the thread, which is even more perplexing. Why the crusade to try to prove to everyone how much their systems suck? Again, *that isn't the point*. People *know* exactly what their system is, they don't need you to float down from the heavens to explain what's wrong with their video card. People *know* T&L is required, they just are hoping by voicing their displeasure (read: whining) perhaps something will be done. If you think it's a waste of time or stupid, fine, but please consider just letting people vent. They are sad enough they can't play the game, what do you gain by rubbing their noses in it?

Actually, Zubie brings up a relevant point. There really has been no clear consensus that having H T&L is a game breaker. Yes there have been numerous posts that it is more than likely crucial, but there have been just as many pointing to possible work-arounds.
Posting here though allows for the possibility that someone from Firaxis will read it, and - however slight a chance it might be - release a patch, or fix, or workaround, or voodoo spell for people with similar problems.
Do I think that will happen? F*ck no! I doubt it's even possible. But sure as hell nothing will happen unless people pipe up and make their voices heard.

 

[maartena]

Bottomline: If you have a system with OLD gaming technology, play the OLD version of the game and don't expect a NEW game to run on it.

Yes, even laptops bought this year often have graphics technology dating back to 2000, 2001 or so. This is not the laptop maker's fault, they just want to save as much battery power and as much heat as possible to keep the laptop portable.

If you want 3D gaming, don't buy a laptop. Period.

 

[ZubieMaster]

But sure as hell nothing will happen unless people pipe up and make their voices heard.

Yep, amen.

Even tho I am one of the pathetic losers who has evil Intel integrated graphics, an 8*** series and only 64K, I am able to play the game to completion. Other specs P4 2.0 ghz, 1g RAM. My first game I played a really easy level and won a domination victory. I was able to build every building, every tech, any wonder, scroll around, zoom in, zoom out. I did the "reveal map" workaround and after a few turns the terrain turns from black to normal. Bottom line, the only effects of lacking T&L that I experience are:

1. Cheshire cat leaders. I can see eyeballs and mouth. Logically, why would it be totally impossible to not give an option to draw the rest of the leader the same way the eyeballs and mouth are drawn? Maybe it wouldn't look as good as the way they want the leaders to look, but there's switches for other graphics options, why not one for "3D leaders yes/no"?

2. Terrain (at beginning only). If terrain works absolutely perfect at the end, when there's the most strain since there's a structure on almost every tile, logically there should be a way to make the beginning work, too.

3. Stuttering sound on videos. I tried updating sound driver, but overall a very minor issue that I don't really care about.

So that's my little story. Do I think Firaxis gives a rat's behind? No. But it's worth a shot anyway. After all, to be a Civ *fanatic* is by definition to try even lost causes.

 

[mweather]

What kind of laptop was it? Specs? Size? etc...

10:1 says it wouldn't 'cut the mustard' for most user's needs (other than to play Civ4)

--Randall

It's an HP Pavilion ze4200. Mobility Radeon (320M, I think), 1.8ghz 256 meg ram, integrated altec lansing speakers, dvd/cdr-w drive.

It should suit most people's needs (office applications).

 

[randallman]

Face it, laptops are not designed to be used as game machines, they're built specifically for productivity. If you use a screwdriver to try and pound in a nail, you can't get angry that it's not a hammer. You're just going to have to find some other way to fill in your downtime. Like maybe working? You can argue that Civ is not a typical gamers game, but obviously it has become just that with this new version. You can accept it or not.

Yeah, that's pretty much the choice - I pretty much have to accept it. Not accepting it would be psychotic because it is what it is It sure would have been nice had they gone the other way though What still remains unanswered is if they will be able to release something to 'make it work' based on the fact that 'it almost works'..

BTW - You'd be surprised - You can do alot of damage to a nail with a screwdriver

 

[Grovor]

My laptop has the following graphics card:

Intel(R) Media Accelerator 900 Graphics Up to 128MB shared system memory

Which at the time I bought it, august this year, sounded pretty good to me. Yes, I didn't do much research, but I thought buying a good machine would see me right for playing CIV. So when I ran the system test at www.srtest.com, I was pretty dissappointed to see the card didn't have T&L.

The game came out this week in Australia, and I bit the bullet and bought it anyway, figuring I'd be playing with black terrain and chesire cat leaders. I decided I would reveal all the terrain in world editor and play with maps I could see everywhere, not perfect but what the hey, I want to play anyway I can.

I installed the game, started an SP game and.....

nothing, the game works just fine!

There's probably an easy explanation, but I don't really care why it works, I'm just happy.

So if you have a new laptop, not all is lost.

 

[PyroStock]

I don't think my question is worthy of a new thread and I'm particularly wondering if my graphic card has T&L. I'm not sure if Comraddict's post would apply to my graphic card, but mine does have 256MB and it's GeForce. Yet I don't see "T&L" anywhere in settings so I'm guessing it doesn't, on the other hand, I play several new high graphic games with no problems so I'm not sure why a Civ game (of all games) wouldn't work....

XP 2700+
Windows2000(SP4)
DirectX 9c
512 RAM

GeForce FX 5700
AGP 8X
256MB Memory
77.77drivers

I might need 1Gig RAM, but it seems some people are ok with 512RAM. If I only might need more RAM then I'll get Civ4. But if I have to get a whole new graphic card then I'll just wait. Any speculations how Civ4 will react?

 

[Subtestube]

Pyro: Your card supports T&L easily. You shouldn't have problems on that front, although, as you correctly note, you may have issues with only half a gig of RAM (I wouldn't know - I have 1.5 )