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Will they ever fix broken AI for 1UPT, Civ VI ?

Discussion in 'CivBE - Ideas and Suggestions' started by jokii, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

    Oct 10, 2008
    AI is a challenge. You can code in to build them a mixed army, but even just figuring out which unit should shoot first, or which ones to target, is always a very tough problem. Never mind mixing in strategies of "What do you build in a city" as well as "should I even go to war" make it so incredibly complex. As well, when you have the carpet of doom, even as a human I have trouble maneuvering my units to get them lined up how I like.

    Which is a flaw, because I much prefer the 1upt than the stack of doom. Maybe the "correct" strategy is a mixed strategy: you build units, and add them to an "army" unit. That unit moves as a single unit through the map, and has a large and extended zone of control. Then you no longer have unit vs unit battles, it turns into army vs army battles. When they fight, the map zooms into a little mini-game (kind of like Castles II, if anyone played that), where you can then line your units up. Inside the mini-map, the armies could battle it up for positioning inside the hex, and eventually either side would retreat/be destroyed. That would be a huge change to the game and series, but it would certainly be a way to balance the map scale, and would likely let the AI have less to worry about.
  2. hyn

    hyn Chieftain

    Dec 12, 2004
    "AI is tough" is no excuse for them when they had the choice of either overhauling the system or reverting to the old MUPT. Now we're stuck with a broken system that will still be broken in future expansion packs (just look at CiV).
  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

    Dec 31, 2005
    I love 1upt myself but at some point if you can't make an ai to play the game...in a distinctly sp genre, it's time to consider a different game
  4. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

    Nov 30, 2007
    Liverpool, UK
    The problems you have with limited stacks is the same as with 1UPT. Once you have a tile limitation, it becomes beneficial to fill it up and then it's often a 1UPT but with more moving parts.

    Unless you have penalties for stacking, in that case, you have extra fiddliness and have to make the AI understand that stacking is bad which is a problem very similar to 1UPT again.

    While it sounds like it, mechanically, there isn't much middle ground between 1UPT and (effectively) infinite UPT.
  5. ddd123

    ddd123 Prince

    Sep 26, 2008

    you still dont realize there never will be any

    for competition, go play HUMANS in a multiplayert game

    single player is not meant for competition
  6. Rexfelis69

    Rexfelis69 Chieftain

    Oct 11, 2002
    Southern Illinois
    The best balance I have seen was all the way back in 1994 with Master of Magic. Each tile had a limit of 9 units. No 100 unit stack of dooms but the AI could put up a fight. I envision a 7 unit limit. Each unit on a "Mini-hex" within a hex. A central unit, a forward and a rear unit, and left and right forward and rear flankers. Each position would provide bonuses/penalties relative to the unit in it and the units in the other mini-hexes. :mischief: Sorry AI programmers.
  7. stiefel_ss

    stiefel_ss Chieftain

    Oct 25, 2014
    Multiplayer is also broken.
  8. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

    Nov 28, 2005
    Novosibirsk, Russia
    This. Incompetent tactical AI means you could set higher difficulty level and have fun of skill vs. number.
  9. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Mar 17, 2008
    Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas and Suggestions
  10. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

    Jul 20, 2012
    Add in Medieval Tech Combined Arms which allows the tile to contain 1range/1 melee unit.

    Easy fix as you can program the AI to favor placing ranged units under the protection of melee units; less moving around, more shooting your city. CIV4 fans will never let go of their stacks of doom will they?
  11. endymon

    endymon Chieftain

    Sep 25, 2011
    From what I understand the problems stem from this:
    1) The graphic fidelity limits the size of maps (so as to bypass a prohibitively expensive a gaming rig)
    2) The limited number of tiles per map makes 1UPT difficult to execute, units have too much or too little movement, and get clogged easily.
    3a) Unit movement being complicated and complex makes the AI really stupid.
    3b) Having an extremely limited number of places to put units, or maneuver them forces unit production to be much slower to prevent unit clog. (hence why it takes 15 turns to build a warrior)

    Since these logically flow from 1> 2 > 3 The correct place to address this is point 1.
    To that end the simplest solution is to shrink the title size without raising the graphical complexity. EG, have the same number of polygons and textures and particle effects, but subdivide the map into much smaller tiles.
    The way to accomplish this is would be to use 2 different grid sizes. One for units and movement, and one for cities, workers, and improvements.
    For instance if the unit hex grid was half the size of the city hex grid, that would give 4 smaller hexes within the size of one of the larger hexes.
    Granted hexes don't exactly sub-divide evenly (ie some unit hexes would have to overlap 2 or more terrain hexes), but even that might yield some interesting strategic implications. Maybe by positioning your units in certain locations you could block workers from multiple tiles at the same time.

    With the graphical load being determined by the number of distinct terrain tiles being displayed, increasing the unit movement granularity in this way will not put excess load on people's systems.
    The only real drawback I can see to this method is it would necessitate the military units icons/models being proportionately smaller so as to fit within the new smaller movement tiles.

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