Windmill and Waterwheel: Historically accurate representations in game?

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Are Water Mill (available with The Wheel, Buildable in city center that is located by rivers, +1 or 2 production and food) and Windmill (as Medieval Lumber Mill TI) correctly represented in game?.
1. Outside gristling, water pumping and gunpowder manufacturing. Are there wind powered lumber mill as graphically represented in game?

2. Water wheels are main prime movers of pre-steam industry, everything that has to be produced en mass needs the assistances of water wheels, outside gristlings, metalworkings required waterwheels for their furnaces, rollers, and continious action forging hammers. Lumber mills are (I think) more correctly powered by water wheels before steam engine came to use, later gunpowder makers need continious mixers to do the job, and (possibly in the Enlightenment Era) cannon foundries use water powered drills to bore gun holes (particularly with Moritz came to France and worked for de Vallierre and Gibreauvalle ).. just a glimpse of examples. and this explains why Early Industrial Centers of any given empires are all located by rivers (and usually deep inland where stream runs strong). too bad Industrial District earns no benefits of river adjacency AT ALL! (and no Water Wheels for such district available regardless of acutal history uses of this thing). Can't Water Wheels be an upgrade to the existing workshops?

This is what Industrial District looks like in Medieval Era

3. And can windmill serves the functions in Item 2 too?

 

[Ludvig]

I think the water adjacency bonus for lumber mills reflects it even if the model is wrong. I think of them more like logging camps than lumber mills to be honest.

I guess the new aqueduct/dam adjacency could be said to represent it as well. For more realism I think rivers should be more common, exist in multiple sizes and work a bit like roads among other things. It's always a bit of a tradeoff between realism and game play though.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Water was pretty essential for efficient lumbering. It was used both to transport the logs to the mill, and to power the mill operation.

It's a shame the bonus production to lumber mills adjacent to water went away in the latest patch.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Watermills were so good at multiplying labor throughout human history that they really ought to be part of the Industrial Zone. If not that, then they should get bonus Production themselves for cities with Dams or Aqueducts. They work best when you control the flow of water and sluice it over the wheel.

 

[Victoria]

There were also tide mills in roman times. Mills were surprisingly useful which is why they give both food and production. I do struggle with a mine or farm producing 5 of something while a mill gives 1 of each. A mill should increase the production and food of each tile rather than producing its own so while it represents both benefits correctly in the game it undervalues the mill hugely.

Windmills were a little later and not as powerful as watermills but certainly were used for many things including sawmills.

Both devices were a huge leap over manual effort, especially when it comes to hammering.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

There were also tide mills in roman times. Mills were surprisingly useful which is why they give both food and production. I do struggle with a mine or farm producing 5 of something while a mill gives 1 of each. A mill should increase the production and food of each tile rather than producing its own so while it represents both benefits correctly in the game it undervalues the mill hugely.

Windmills were a little later and not as powerful as watermills but certainly were used for many things including sawmills.

Both devices were a huge leap over manual effort, especially when it comes to hammering.

With this. then Industrial District should becomes available in Classical Era. Romans (and maybe Egyptians) are prime examples of this.
On Windmills working as prime mover to sawmills. Did wind powered sawmills exists and where?

 

[Victoria]

Did wind powered sawmills exists and where?

Cornelis van Uitgeest invented them at the end of the 16th century, a dutch advantage in ship building we only caught up with a little bit with saw pits later.
Water sawmills in the 12th
Windmills themselves did not come in until the 9th century
It is the water mills that were the early thing 3-2nd centuries BC... and the Romans did also use tidal mills.

Wiki states the different between a saw pit and a water sawmill was 12 boards per day compared with 200. Sawyers in the UK burnt down the first sawmills due to the threat to their jobs.

So with regard to sawmills they come way too early in the game. Only the dutch should be able to create them away from water. I think everyone is a bit confused by this change as the water thing was one of the things that felt right.

Water mills come early in the game and are not part of an industrial centre, and to be fair are not really.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Oh. this is the first time I've saw how woodworkings and shipbuildings of the Middle Ages worked out.

 

[acluewithout]

I do struggle with a mine or farm producing 5 of something while a mill gives 1 of each. A mill should increase the production and food of each tile rather than producing its own...

Water Mills give +1 production, +1 food, and +1 food per Bonus food resource in the City.

 

[Victoria]

Water Mills give +1 production, +1 food, and +1 food per Bonus food resource in the City.

True... just not mines and other farms

 

[Troy Bruckner]

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Is this a wind powered sawmill? and is this mill located in The Netherlands?

 

[Troy Bruckner]

^ Is this a wind powered sawmill? and is this mill located in The Netherlands?

Yes