New Version - 3.8.3 (August 27, 2023)

[BaldSamson]

I don’t think the gold tribute by itself is the problem, maybe it does need a touch of a nerf to 2.5x instead of 3x, or some kind of floor so you can’t get 40 gold tribute wjtb your starting units, but reverting it all the way back will just put us back to lame tributes.

How are the gold values for base tribute being calculated, i.e. what is X?

1250 / CS @ T170 is amazing, especially for a warmonger. There is certainly a share of luck to reliably tribute from 3+ CSs, but having 2 to farm tribute from is generally achievable at this point in the game in my experience. 2500 and 1250 every ~20 turns (or less) reliably at this point in the game is just too much IMO.

Don't get me wrong though, I like most of the changes. The reduction of CS resilience for alliances/friends in particular makes the midgame much more consistent and it feels less RNG.

I'm trying out a few other warmonger games before it's definitive, just an early read.

 

[Recursive]

Version 3.8.3 released. Link in OP has been updated.

Changelog:

- Fixed Divine Teachings not allowing Libraries to be purchased
- Fixed Piazza San Marco's cooldown reductions being flipped
- Explore Area City-State quest no longer selects tiles with Natural Wonders on them (but is more likely to pick tiles that are adjacent to Natural Wonders)
- Explore Area City-State quest now disfavors any tiles that are adjacent to a revealed tile
- Added tooltip giving more information on city connections

Online as of 4:23 AM CST. Savegame compatible with 3.8 versions, although existing Piazzas and Explore Area quests won't be affected.

 

[azum4roll]

Something is definitely wrong with the AI's tile improvement logic. The AI players are not improving anything that isn't a resource. They're not building roads or farms or villages or anything.

Spoiler my current denmark game :

View attachment 670825

Spoiler It's just you :

 

[saamohod]

Something is definitely wrong with the AI's tile improvement logic. The AI players are not improving anything that isn't a resource. They're not building roads or farms or villages or anything.

Spoiler my current denmark game :

View attachment 670825

Confirmed. It seems AI even ignores bonus resources and only improves luxury and strategics. Turn 155, AI capital, cow resource never improved.

 

[Rosete]

I think it is less that AI isn't making roads, they do in my games. This patch AI seems to make less workers, and prioritised improving other things before roads. In your screen shot you can see the AI is trying to build a road from Atila to the city in the North passing through the town.

 

[azum4roll]

AI hides their workers while enemies are nearby. Maybe you were just pushing them too hard with war. But then again, I just completed an autoplay game with 6/8 Authority players and they improved just fine...

 

[Haldar]

I started a game on v. 3.8.3 yesterday, and noticed small bug/issue with CS quest - build a National Wonder. When you get this quest, and put the requested National Wonder in building queue as a 2nd or later building in the queue, the quest is getting cancelled by CS, as if you can't build it anymore.

 

[saamohod]

I think it is less that AI isn't making roads, they do in my games. This patch AI seems to make less workers, and prioritised improving other things before roads. In your screen shot you can see the AI is trying to build a road from Atila to the city in the North passing through the town.

I can't find any justification for not improving a cow resource within the reach of their capital at turn 155.

AI hides their workers while enemies are nearby. Maybe you were just pushing them too hard with war. But then again, I just completed an autoplay game with 6/8 Authority players and they improved just fine...

This is the first war they are having with me, and likely the first war altogether. And it only started recently, like 5 or less turns before the screenshot was taken.
EDIT: the cow tile could've been a freshly expanded tile though. I need to move a bit deeper into his territory to see how the things are going

 

[Coffee Monopoly]

I started a game on v. 3.8.3 yesterday, and noticed small bug/issue with CS quest - build a National Wonder. When you get this quest, and put the requested National Wonder in building queue as a 2nd or later building in the queue, the quest is getting cancelled by CS, as if you can't build it anymore.

Same for world wonders, I think. I noticed the world wonder quests sometimes got cancelled because "you can no longer build it", for no apparent reason.

 

[Recursive]

Version 3.8.4 released. Link in OP has been updated.

Changelog:

- Buffed Siam meeting influence bonus: 40 -> the answer to life, the universe and everything
   Due to a nerf in their yields of ~2 turns with the new gradual Influence decay between 1 and 99 above resting point

- Added UNIT_SUPPLY_MINORS_USE_HANDICAP custom mod option (disabled by default)
   When enabled, City-States only receive the unit supply cap specified in DifficultyMod.xml
   These values can be modified with new defines for each City-State trait and personality type
   As well as a multiplier for City-States that have multiple cities
   These defines work even if the custom mod option is turned off (but they are disabled by default as well)
   Bonuses from buildings like Barracks, reduction from tech, and anything else do not apply

- Added "per era flat" unit supply column to DifficultyMod.xml
- Separated unit supply values for AI players and City-States in DifficultyMod.xml
- Improved internal version identifier when building the DLL
- City-States are now longer blocked from disbanding oversupply units when they've been recently bullied
- Tactical AI now prioritizes border citadels more
- Fixed a tactical AI bug causing units to retreat unnecessarily
- Fixed a tactical AI bug double counting cities as adjacent enemies
- Fixed City-States not awarding XP to gifted units from the correct city
- Fixed "You aggressively attacked this City-State!" timer counting up instead of down (UI bug only)
- Fixed dummy policies awarding a difficulty bonus
- Fixed missing Great People unit supply entry in Military Overview
- Fixed unit supply tooltip not accounting for some extra possible bonuses in DifficultyMod.xml
- Fixed several other unit supply bugs
- Unhardcoded unit supply reduction from war weariness
- Database cleanups

If you do not know what the answer to life, the universe and everything is, why not ask Google?

Online as of 10:30 AM CST. NOT SAVEGAME COMPATIBLE. Savegame compatible with 3.8 versions.

 

[axatin]

How are the gold values for base tribute being calculated, i.e. what is X?

The formula is as follows:
The base value is 50 + 400*(Number of elapsed game turns)/(Total number of turns). This value is multiplied by 3 and scales with era. In addition, the amount of gold is multiplied with a modifier for game speed, values are (0.75 / 1 / 1.5 / 2) for quick/standard/epic/marathon.

The 1200 gold example from above seems to be epic speed and medieval era, so we get
(50 + 400*170/750) = 140
140 * 3 * 2* 1.5 = 1,260

 

[axatin]

My thoughts on this:
- There are two time-scaling effects here, first the scaling based on the number of elapsed turns, and then the regular era scaling. Together, this is basically a quadratic scaling (from T170/medieval to T340/modern the tribute value more than quadruples from 1,260 to 5,197 gold). It should be a linear scaling instead, maybe with a higher value than 400.
- Do we need the modifier for game speed? That modifier is applied to all kinds of instant yields, but as taking tribute is a repeatable action, I think it doesn't belong here.

 

[rkkn]

My thoughts on this:
- There are two time-scaling effects here, first the scaling based on the number of elapsed turns, and then the regular era scaling. Together, this is basically a quadratic scaling (from T170/medieval to T340/modern the tribute value more than quadruples from 1,260 to 5,197 gold). It should be a linear scaling instead, maybe with a higher value than 400.

quadratic scaling is good. matches up well with the way yields in general scale across the game. linear would be worse

 

[myclan]

Version 3.8.4 released. Link in OP has been updated.

Changelog:

- Buffed Siam meeting influence bonus: 40 -> the answer to life, the universe and everything
   Due to a nerf in their yields of ~2 turns with the new gradual Influence decay between 1 and 99 above resting point

- Added UNIT_SUPPLY_MINORS_USE_HANDICAP custom mod option (disabled by default)
   When enabled, City-States only receive the unit supply cap specified in DifficultyMod.xml
   These values can be modified with new defines for each City-State trait and personality type
   As well as a multiplier for City-States that have multiple cities
   These defines work even if the custom mod option is turned off (but they are disabled by default as well)
   Bonuses from buildings like Barracks, reduction from tech, and anything else do not apply

- Added "per era flat" unit supply column to DifficultyMod.xml
- Separated unit supply values for AI players and City-States in DifficultyMod.xml
- Improved internal version identifier when building the DLL
- City-States are now longer blocked from disbanding oversupply units when they've been recently bullied
- Tactical AI now prioritizes border citadels more
- Fixed a tactical AI bug causing units to retreat unnecessarily
- Fixed a tactical AI bug double counting cities as adjacent enemies
- Fixed City-States not awarding XP to gifted units from the correct city
- Fixed "You aggressively attacked this City-State!" timer counting up instead of down (UI bug only)
- Fixed dummy policies awarding a difficulty bonus
- Fixed missing Great People unit supply entry in Military Overview
- Fixed unit supply tooltip not accounting for some extra possible bonuses in DifficultyMod.xml
- Fixed several other unit supply bugs
- Unhardcoded unit supply reduction from war weariness
- Database cleanups

If you do not know what the answer to life, the universe and everything is, why not ask Google?

Online as of 10:30 AM CST. Savegame compatible with 3.8 versions.

Repo a bug need hotfix, When using Ver3.8.4 to load a V3.8.3 game, some CS quests will be changed. A former Natural Wonder discover quest becomes a gifting gold quest, no way to complete.

 

[azum4roll]

Oops, shouldn't have changed enum orders mid-version I guess.

 

[youngsteve]

"Fixed a tactical AI bug causing units to retreat unnecessarily"

Is that regarding AI deserting cities & leaving them undefended when they are being attacked? It certainly needs it as cities/empires collapse because there are no units defending cities & quite annoying.

 

[Recursive]

Moderator Action: Due to 3.8.4 being savegame incompatible and another necessary bugfix also breaking savegames, a 3.9 release will be posted shortly and 3.8.4 will be replaced with 3.9. If you want to keep playing 3.8, play on 3.8.3. Thread closed due to new release.