Winning is all about the map

[kristof123]

I have been playing many games now for a while. I would say that i am very good at the levels in which i play. The majority of my games i win but some maps are simply unwinnable. For example i settle 8-10 cities early on whether it be through an early rush or simply settling land. Now there are maps where the AI is simply alloted enough land to settle 13-18 cities whilst the rest have to make do with the little that the randomly generated map allots them. In my experience no matter how good i prepare and even if i articutely micro manage every aspect of my empire down to the very last detail, the AI when declaring on me or any other civ is simply unstoppable due to sheer number of forces it produces.

The thing is does this also happen to you guys, is it normal?

 

[stevenburns]

Its common that some AIs start with better and/or more land than the others or the player, but whenever you can manage to get to 8-10 cities in reasonable time you should be able to beat an AI with up to twice your number of cities. 20 city AIs on IMM/DEI are pretty mean, though.

Of course, there are starts that are more difficult than others. A strong start may let you jump up a difficulty whereas tough starts can force experienced players on their regular difficulty to quit. It's up to ourselves whether a tough start is a challenge or a bore.

An early DoW is an often game ending thing, but in fairness there is almost always time to tech archery and settle a city for defensive purposes. Its a major economical set back and a waste of resources but, again, it's a question of perspective: challenge or not?

 

[ikotomi]

I cant speak for Deity, but everywhere else, the AI is bad enough at prioritizing such that if you maximize the potential of what the map gave you, you should still be able to pull ahead at some point with good timing on your attacks, usually cuirassier or riflery.

DoW early on is tough, but playing diplomacy and tech trading well should prevent most of the unwinnable early wars. If you rolled a protective leader, it often feels beneficial to get declared on, as your archers become so efficient they lose their stack on your city and offer you a bunch of gold for peace. It's also a great opportunity to bring another civ into war as they become easier to bribe, without getting the penalty for declaring on their friends.

 

[Pangaea]

At particularly deity level, this can ring true. On Pangaea style maps you can sort of keep control of the AIs, because you have met them all. But on Continents type maps, this can be very difficult. There could be a runaway AI that either settled the lion's share of land on his/her continent, or have 2-3 vassals when you meet them post-Astro. At that point it may be virtually impossible to prevent them winning culture or catching up in tech.

Suppose this could happen in some cases on immortal too, but the step from immortal to deity is massive, so immortal is already much more manageable. Really bad starts/maps ofc make it more difficult, no doubt, but except on deity, I'd say the vast majority of maps are possible to win one way or another.

 

[Ringo Kid]

I dont play on the upper levels, so I don't know about that. But I have found that even the most powerful AI can be whittled down by using overwhelming local force. He may have 200 defenders, but they are not all in the same place. So for one example three carriers and six transports of marines plus a number of destroyers can destroy the enemies coastal cities, and quite often the capital is a coastal city. He is strong, but he is stupid.

 

[Izuul]

Any game below deity is winnable barring crazy settings. There are definitely some maps on deity though that are nearly (if not completely) unwinnable, even for great players playing them over and over again with map knowledge.

 

[civfanchambers]

I'm sure Pangaea will agree with me. Do a YouTube search for a LP video by Absolute Zero. On YouTube he is know as Chris67132. Look for his Mongolian game Deity lvl. No matter how hard you might think a game can be, consider what AZ went thru in his "Wrath of Khan" game. Perhaps Pangaea can post a link so you can easily view the video.

 

[Pangaea]

If that is the game where he got mauled by dows right, left and centre, I remember it. Just nuts. I based what I said above on AbsoluteZero btw, because he saying stuff like that before. Sometimes you simply can't beat scenarios like that, no matter how good you are -- and AZ is might good.

 

[Arvoreniad]

What about isolated starts? Are these winnable on Immortal/Deity?

 

[Qactus]

What about isolated starts? Are these winnable on Immortal/Deity?

They are, even on Deity. If you want to see a really crazy conquest game out of Deity isolation, check out the Strategy Articles and look for a thread called "Benefits of avoiding bronze working". In order to defend his bulb strategy w/o BW, the OP had set up a very specific game in isolation with a tough start and won a late cultural victory, claiming the map wouldn't be winnable if played with a more open strategy, i.e. with BW.
Then, somewhere further down the thread (search for it) Doshin comes along and pulls off conquest victory.

 

[Arvoreniad]

Thanks, I'll take a look.