Winning via the Apostolic Palace

ditchhook

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
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I usually play on Prince level, (although I seldom win) and I enjoy exploring the different victory options. One option I'm having a lot of trouble getting a handle on is the diplomatic victory via the Apostolic Palace vote. I've not yet been able to build the sucker, much less get myself into the running to be installed as 'pope.'

Right now I'm focusing on founding a religion as a first step, and getting that religion into as many civs as possible as soon as possible-- including getting a great prophet so as to build the unique building that promotes the 'natural' spread of the religion.

Does anyone have advice on early-game strategies that would increase my chances for such a victory?

PS I play marathon; large, archipelago map.
 
I'm not an expert, but I have gotten 1 AP win myself. However, it's probably not too repeatable.

I was playing a continents map with Brennus next to be (who founded Buddhism), and above him, Ragnar (Hindu) and Zara (also Buddhist). Ragnar got into a couple wars with Zara. So with shared religion, good trading, and even a shared fake war, I was up to friendly with both Zara and Brennus. The other interesting thing was all the early religions were founded on our island. So I thought maybe I'd try for an AP win. I beelined Theology (or maybe used a GP to bulb it, I'm not sure), and managed to found Christianity. I built the AP, switched to Christianity to build it in there (since I didn't want my friends being eligible).

I built a bunch of missionaries, and spread them to all my cities. Fearing that I would have too many votes on my own, I spread them to all Brennus' cities. Luckily Zara had one city with it, and I made sure to spread it to Ragnar. From there, it was a race to optics. What I did was I knew there were 3 people on the other continent, so I built 3 caravels, and loaded them each with a missionary. Since nobody on the other island had a religion yet, there was no trouble spreading. Thankfully they all accepted open borders. From there, I just waited to get the vote, and Brennus' votes were enough to push me over the top.

So, how to win AP: Get someone very friendly with you, enough that they'll vote for you. Make sure that you're the only one on the ballot, so you don't lose to someone else. You don't need to be running the AP religion to win - that's another key. I tried to get Brennus to switch to Christianity with me, since I wasn't positive about the AP win conditions, but it turns out that I could stay in Buddhism and still win the AP vote in Christianity. Build the AP in a small, useless religion. Spread it to your cities and your friends cities. Spread it to one crappy city for everyone else. Wait. Win.
 
By bee-lining to Theocracy, I was able to build the palace. But lost the election. It might have been wiser for me to switch to Christianity before it was completed: I was in Buddhism from early on, and trying to get it into every AI civilization, but some of them 'ran with it' and they had lots more 'Buddha votes' than I could muster by the time the election came along. If I had propagated Christianity in my own cities, and then dumped one missionary into each of my opponents as secondary religions, I maybe could have had more control, but I wonder if I could get all that done before the palace becomes obsolete.
 
By bee-lining to Theocracy, I was able to build the palace. But lost the election. It might have been wiser for me to switch to Christianity before it was completed: I was in Buddhism from early on, and trying to get it into every AI civilization, but some of them 'ran with it' and they had lots more 'Buddha votes' than I could muster by the time the election came along. If I had propagated Christianity in my own cities, and then dumped one missionary into each of my opponents as secondary religions, I maybe could have had more control, but I wonder if I could get all that done before the palace becomes obsolete.

The AP has a long lifespan (all the way until the UN). If you really want to go for the win from it, it doesn't take long to keep 3 missionaries on the move all the time.
 
1. Build AP in religion nobody runs
2. Switch out of that religion
3. Get at least 1-2 AIs to +9 or better, spread the AP religion to them like crazy.
4. Quickly spread the religion to 1 city of the other AIs, and enjoy victory.
 
I did this in a recent game.

Play a leader that can get hindu/bud early. Build Oracle for Confu. Then use Great priest for Theology. By this time you could have 3 religions.

I think the key part is to have Ap religion as secondary religion to rivals. Its okay if the rivals all switch to different religions. Pick the Ap religion wisely.

For me i would spread Ap religion to all my cities. The tip is to only spread Ap religion to small Ai cities. One per Ai is enough. If it spreads naturally then theres no need.

The hard part is sailing abroad and starting religion in overseas nations. Gifting missionaries can work here. You may need to switch to no religion to get open borders.

In terms of getting +9-+11 diplo points. Gifting techs can get you +4 trade relations. Military struggles can get +2-3. Years of peace. +1-2. Sharing technological break throughs gets points. Even open borders gets you bonuses.

The next question is do you adopt the religion for the Ap win vote. if you can still get +11 with religion then do it.

I think Salladin is a good leader for AP wins. The UB library allows priests as well as scientists. With Stone henge and Oracle this becomes easier and early great priests come into play.
 
Hi all! Lurker here.

I had an unexpected AP victory happen over a month ago, I was playing As Mao Ze Dong of China gearing towards a DOmination win. I took out Stalin early with swords/CKN combos, while keeping Shaka at bay, and eventually capturing his two island cities nearby giving me a chance to make a colony early in the game ><.

After making peace with Shaka, Gilgamesh DOW on me but were no match for my promoted CKN and CR Swords now turned Macemen. Gilgamesh had around 10 cities and decided to capitulate when he only had 3 left. After He capitulated, I won an AP Win all thanks to Victoria who shared my religion and who built the AP.

It was my first early win ever around 1500+AD and first ever Augustus Caesar rank :woohoo: , a mere warlord player, but just want to enjoy the game :)
 
Thanks folks! That outline is just what I needed, and my error has been to not switch to a 'smaller' religion when the AP is built, and then take more control over what my rivals get of that religion: everyone needs a a token presence, while me and my best buds need a super-sized portion.
 
Wait, why do you switch away from the AP religion? Just so that you can have the same religion as the other civs - to improve your relationships?
 
^^^^
Yeah - you just want to switch to "your religion" 1 turn before completion of the AP. Then switch back ASAP to buddhism/hindu/judaism whatever after the 5 turn minimum wait. You need to get votes from 1 or 2 allies to win - so they should be at friendly. That's hard to do if you are in a different religion. If you build in the same religion as your religious block of friends, then they will also be eligible in the vote for victory, since that's their state religion. Then they will vote for themselves, not you which isn't good. If the AP is built in a religion that isn't anyone state relgion (only yours for the 5 turns while finishing the AP) then only you are eligible on the vote, since you built the AP and are automatically eligible.

I've only won once with the AP - it was in 1330 AD, a few hundred years earlier than i've ever won before. It was on my 2nd try - i was just trying to see how it works. First try i was 5 votes short in the 1300's, then one of the "bad guys" spread it to all his cities so i started over - wouldn't have been able to win unless i fought some war, which i wasn't ready to do with only a few cities, no army, only experimenting with this AP nonsense.

2nd try was really easy. It was on emperor, i only built 5 cities. Founded Philosophy but wasn't the first to theology. Still managed to build the AP. I was in buddhism, sharing with 2 AI's who i had at pleased/friendly. 1 turn before AP was done i switched to philosophy, finished the AP, then switched back to buddhism 5 turns later as soon as i could. Then i just spread it to all the cities of my 2 allies, then 1 city each of the other 4 AI's.

Building stonehenge and/or the oracle helps - just save a great prophet for bulbing theology. If you don't get the wonders and a prophet, you can also just use a great scientist to bulb philosophy early (what i did) and manually tech theology. Just make sure you can get the AP built before an AI gets it. Also make sure you spread philosophy/christianity (whichever you want to build the AP in) to the city building the AP since you need the state religion in that city. Other than that quick switch to "your" religion for the completion of the AP, just stay in whatever early religion your allies are in.

There are other ways to do it, especially later through conquering - but for a 1200's-1300's victory this way is pretty simple. Just make sure to found a religion, and get the AP built. If you have 2 AI's friendly, and 4 you need to spread it to to open up the victory, spread it to the most religious AI last, since he might spread it further. Since you can only build 3 missionaries at a time, you can't give it to all of them on the same turn. Best thing to do is use 1 to spread it to an AI that already has a religion everywhere, and has a really crappy tundra/island city. Then spread to the remaining 3 more or less simultaneously. That limits the chance they will spread it further before the vote for victory comes up.

Also, don't be afraid to run favorite civics of your allies even if they really aren't the civics you want to be in. If everything works out there is no late game to prepare for - so after teching theology, your tech rate/economy don't matter at all really. Just need enough production to build missionaries and possibly some units for defense if you get attacked. With the 2 nearest AI's friendly with you you'll be pretty safe though. If you do get a DOW you can probably bribe them into the war to help you out.

It was fun to try once, but i doubt i'll do it again soon. Doesn't feel like a "real game". Also, if it doesn't work out as planned there's a good chance you haven't set yourself up in a good position to win any other way.
 
It was fun to try once, but i doubt i'll do it again soon. Doesn't feel like a "real game". Also, if it doesn't work out as planned there's a good chance you haven't set yourself up in a good position to win any other way.

I'm thinking that too. As I stated in my initial post, my goal is to explore all the different possibilities of winning. I'm not advocating that this AP approach is the coolest or most clever strategy for winning. Both this and the cultural victory seems a bit contrived in commparison to real life, but both are quite challenging on as a purely academic exercise of me versus the AI.
 
I'm thinking that too. As I stated in my initial post, my goal is to explore all the different possibilities of winning. I'm not advocating that this AP approach is the coolest or most clever strategy for winning. Both this and the cultural victory seems a bit contrived in commparison to real life, but both are quite challenging on as a purely academic exercise of me versus the AI.

Its not so much as a way to win game but also opens up ways for the Ai to win. it makes you think a bit more about how you play the game.
 
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