Wonder Effect Changes

[loserforsale]

One thing I don't think has been greatly discussed (there don't seem to be any prior threads on the topic) is any new effects which existing wonders will have in BNW. The Colossus is known to have changed; the Eiffel Tower seems likely to change, given that its effect has been taken by Prora. The Kremlin is also known to have changed, though in that case we also know the effect (+50% tank production).

Some wonders (in particular the Louvre) will have slots for Great Works and Artifacts, which may replace some or all of the existing effects - indeed, given that the Uffizi seems likely to provide a free great artist, it seems unlikely that the Louvre will still give two great artists.

Some rule mechanics may cause subtle changes. For example, given that trade routes are now largely between civs and CSs, rather than between domestic cities, Machu Picchu could go in a number of directions - boosting food/production from internal trade routes, boosting gold from international trade routes, increasing the total number of trade routes available, or any number of other directions.

Aside from these, there are others that could fit in very well with the new mechanics from a thematic point of view. For example, it would make more sense for the Great Firewall to reduce tourism towards your civilisation than to prevent spying (though this is perhaps also more politically sensitive). Schloss Neuschwanstein currently gives happiness, culture and gold for each castle in your empire; it is not hard to imagine that it should give tourism for each castle.

With that said, I'll open the floor to discussion. Which wonders do you think are likely to change (apart from the known ones) and what do you think the new effects are likely to be?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

What we know
1. Eiffel Tower : Now provides +5 Happiness, +1 Culture, +2 Great Merchant Points, and +12 Tourism instead of the Happiness per Social Policy effect (which has now been moved to Prora).
2. The Kremlin : Requires Order Ideology. +50% Production when building Armor units, 1 free Social Policy.

What we speculate on :
The Forbidden Palace - Grants extra delegates, this bonus can be figured out by two things, 1. we know there is a wonder that grants extra delegates, and 2. It's tied to the Patronage tree, which, by using the same logic as the Pyramids, has some kind of connection to City States.

I believe The Red Fort (new wonder) now posesses Kremlin's old bonus.

We don't know what Parthenon does, but could it be that it akes Forbidden Palace's old bonus?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

What we know
1. Eiffel Tower : Now provides +5 Happiness, +1 Culture, +2 Great Merchant Points, and +12 Tourism instead of the Happiness per Social Policy effect (which has now been moved to Prora).
2. The Kremlin : Requires Order Ideology. +50% Production when building Armor units, 1 free Social Policy.

What we speculate on :
The Forbidden Palace - Grants extra delegates, this bonus can be figured out by two things, 1. we know there is a wonder that grants extra delegates, and 2. It's tied to the Patronage tree, which, by using the same logic as the Pyramids, has some kind of connection to City States.

I believe The Red Fort (new wonder) now posesses Kremlin's old bonus.

We don't know what Parthenon does, but could it be that it akes Forbidden Palace's old bonus?

We do know what the parthenon does.. it has a Great work of Art slot, that comes prefilled.

Also Terracotta Army no longer gives a cultural bonus.

and you still get gold from city road/harbor connections, so Macchu Piccu may stay the same.

Also... I have not seen Any World Wonder so far that gives Artist GPPs. Its possible those have been taken out and are ONLY in the Guilds.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

We do know what the parthenon does.. it has a Great work of Art slot, that comes prefilled.

Also Terracotta Army no longer gives a cultural bonus.

Sources? Because this is the first time I've heard about both of those.

 

[Byzantine Bomb]

Yeah, I have yet to read anything about the Terracotta Army. If this is true, what will it do now?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Yeah, I have yet to read anything about the Terracotta Army. If this is true, what will it do now?

I'd say that would be based on the fact that ALL culture buildings have been nerfed down to only a single culture points (with the rest being filled by artworks/pieces/literature). However, the Parthenon sounds a bit silly, especially since I'm pretty sure screenshots showned it EMPTY.

Parthenon wouldn't be a bad candidate for getting Frobideen's Palace's effect, would it?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yeah, I have yet to read anything about the Terracotta Army. If this is true, what will it do now?

Well for Parthenon, I don't remember what the original source was, but it should be on the "what we know thread".. it was a clear reveal.
Also, the Work of Art in it can be moved out (it was the ?Elgin Marbles? I believe)

The Terracotta was in a city screen shot of Jakarta,

It had Terracotta Army, a Palace, a Monument (it also had Stonehenge and a Candi.. and possibly some other buildings)

Jakarta had 4 culture

Palace=1
Monument=2
Terracotta=1 (ie a normal wonder)

So that was a bit of deduction.

*Also I think the Forbidden Palace effect may be gone entirely (they havemade happiness tighter)

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

There is no way Terracota does nothing else but provide a single point of Culture, whatever it is, could be anything (it is possible, that if Parthenon provides a free Work of Art (which I think its' a pretty bland effect), then it might get Forbidden Palace's old bonus

The Happiness is tigher meaning the happiness bonus that the F.P provides is now more powerful.

Can anybody find the source of Parthenon's effect? Despite it being in What we Know thread I can't find a single post that says it.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

There is no way Terracota does nothing else but provide a single point of Culture, whatever it is, could be anything (it is possible, that if Parthenon provides a free Work of Art (which I think its' a pretty bland effect), then it might get Forbidden Palace's old bonus

The Happiness is tigher meaning the happiness bonus that the F.P provides is now more powerful.

Well % discounts on population unhappiness do warp the game... and that would be Terribly early for that bonus... but it is possible.

I agree TerraCotta definitely does Something besides 1 culture.. but from that screenshot the bonus was unclear (all Faith, food and production were accounted for.. it maight have provided extra gold/science, or had some other effect.)

(as for Parthenon being a bland effect, its basically like a Free Great Artist + a Slot building).. ie 1/2 an old Louvre.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Still, why not just give a free artist.. still, this is the first time I've heard about the Parthenon bonus, and it must've been revealed early on because I cannot account for it at all in the What we know thread

 

[Gali]

We know the Statue of Liberty gives a free policy now. In the Civil War stream they mentioned all the ideology wonders give a free policy/tenet and named SOL the Freedom wonder. If it keeps all its bonuses another point of power for Freedom.

 

[kaspergm]

I'd say that would be based on the fact that ALL culture buildings have been nerfed down to only a single culture points (with the rest being filled by artworks/pieces/literature). However, the Parthenon sounds a bit silly, especially since I'm pretty sure screenshots showned it EMPTY.

Parthenon wouldn't be a bad candidate for getting Frobideen's Palace's effect, would it?

KrikkitTwo is correct about Parthenon, this has been confirmed in whatever source, I think we saw it in one of the videos. When some shots show it empty, clearly that would be because the GW was moved to another building, possibly to obtain a theming bonus. Just because it comes pre-filled doesn't mean it can't be moved.

 

[SamBC]

I'd say that would be based on the fact that ALL culture buildings have been nerfed down to only a single culture points (with the rest being filled by artworks/pieces/literature). However, the Parthenon sounds a bit silly, especially since I'm pretty sure screenshots showned it EMPTY.

Well, I believe you can move great works around.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Sorry, I just like to deny if I haven't seen it for my eyes, but Parthenon really sounds like a bad.. boring.. wonder.. Unless the Great Work of Art does more than, is that all it does?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I too remember the Parthanon coming with a Great Work socketed. It was a riddle as to why one Great Work didn't have an artist displayed for it in the Great Works socketing page.

Then we saw it in an article. It came with e the Great Work, "Phidias showing the frieze of the Parthenon to his Friends".

 

[Hulking Lummox]

I am assuming that the Terracotta Army will have a tourism/archeology bonus since it had to be unearthed. It is still on the lower tech path so it's probably designed to help non culture victories much the same as G&K.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Sorry, I just like to deny if I haven't seen it for my eyes, but Parthenon really sounds like a bad.. boring.. wonder.. Unless the Great Work of Art does more than, is that all it does?

It also gives 4 culture... (with the great work, that is as much as the Terracotta used to)

Also on that Terracotta screenshot, the Great Merchant and Great Engineer buckets were open, but not the Great Scientist (Great Merchant was empty). There was an unfilled market, and Stonehenge as well. Terracotta probably gives Great Merchant points. (ie it was just added and the Great merchant would list +1 per turn, but none in yet)

Also, Petra is listed in an achievement with colossus, caravanssary, and harbor.

Harbor still provides city connections, but we aren't sure what else it does.
Caravanssary is +50% caravan range, +2 gold for ITR caravans from this spot
Colossus no longer gives +gold to water tiles

So Petra (and Colossus) probably give bonuses to 'specific' trade routes from that city or possibly from that city. (possibly providing an extra trade route as well)

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Harbor is likely the naval equilivent of Carvanssary.

 

[Biologist]

Depending on the theming bonuses that can be gained from the Parthenon's wonder, plus the fact that culture (and eventually tourism) can be accumulated that much earlier, the Parthenon probably won't be too shabby. Also, great works can be traded, so you might be able to swap it for something more useful.

 

[Loaf Warden]

I must have missed where the Parthenon comes pre-equipped with a Great Work. But if it does, how could it not be the frieze itself? Missed opportunity, that is.