Wonder Elimination Thread

[PhroX]

Oracle - it's not a terrible wonder, but it's just a free social policy and it comes at the time when you'll go for much better and more important wonders... or infrastructure for that matter, so wasting 10-15 turns on one SP isn't that worth it.

The thing about the Oracle is that you're often not in a position to get those "more important wonders" - or if you are, you're on too low of a difficulty.

I think you're understimating how useful an extra SP can be, but regardless about that, one of the best things about the Oracle is that you can actually build it. So many of the wonders that appear great on paper are taken by the AI before you get a chance - look at the Great Library for example.

Anyway...

Alhambra - 11
Big Ben - 18
Borobudur -16
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 28
Globe Theater - 14
Great Library - 6: As I said above, nice on paper, but utterly impractical
Hagia Sophia- 11
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 26: Basically guarantees you a SV unless you really screw up
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 30
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 22
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 27
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 19
Sydney Opera House - 7
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

 

[Sake]

Alhambra - 11
Big Ben - 18
Borobudur -16
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 28
Globe Theater - 14
Great Library - 3 - I used to love this wonder, but when i moved up to King and later Emperor i started losing to it. On Immortal i gave up even trying. Good luck completing it before turn 30.
Hagia Sophia- 11
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27 - Only wonder that helps with final push towards an victory (SV in this case), even if you're not planning on SV, two GS is still well worth it.
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 30
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 22
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 27
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 19
Sydney Opera House - 7
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

 

[Merciorum]

Alhambra - 11
Big Ben - 18
Borobudur -16
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 28
Globe Theater - 14
Great Library - 0 I hate to kill it, but I eventually realised that the amount of effort you put in to make it is not worth the reward.
Hagia Sophia- 11 A free Prophet is not to be sniffed at. Granted, it is dependent on you having/able to have a religion, but a Prophet is always useful.
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 30
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 22
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26 njmfff took off 2, not 3.
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 19
Sydney Opera House - 7
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

 

[Memoryjar]

Alhambra - 11
Big Ben - 18 -3 = 15. Need commerce. I rarely open this policy tree. More surely exploration for Louvre. I open commerce a game for + 25 % gold in capital. Big Bem remains a lot of turns before i started build it. In my 4th city, because nothing else to do. Except Wealth our Science.
Borobudur -16 + 1. Succesful gamble vs AI made me on the way of victory. 3 free missionaries at this moment of the game is a great advantage. + 5 Faith more than Hagio.
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 28
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia- 11
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 30
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 22
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 19
Sydney Opera House - 7
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

 

[NinjaGnat]

Alhambra - 11
Big Ben - 15.
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 28
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 8 I like this wonder, but when I build it it's to deny it from someone else. I don't want my nearest neighbor suddenly founding an unexpected religion.
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 30
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 23 If you have the mountian, this wonder comes at exactly the right time to fix your mid-game gold issues. It'll keep you conquesting or settling into the industrial age without seeing red.
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 19
Sydney Opera House - 7
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

 

[GoStu]

Alhambra - 11 +1 = 12
Big Ben - 15.
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 28
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 8 -3 = 5
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 30
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 19
Sydney Opera House - 7
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

Upvote to Alhambra. Disregarding the difficulty in getting it, I think it's a much better warmongering wonder than Brandenburg as it gives you a truly "free" promotion as opposed to the XP to buy one. The 20% more culture is gravy; you probably build this in a pretty well developed city, so more culture from that city cannot be bad.

Downvote to Hagia Sophia because I'm petty about Piety and the number of times some dumbshit like Korea uses it to spawn a religion after I've converted him drives me up the wall. So often they WERE my friend from shared religion, then build the wonder 'because I can' and suddenly our friendship is spoiled. Screw you, Sophia.

 

[njmfff]

The thing about the Oracle is that you're often not in a position to get those "more important wonders" - or if you are, you're on too low of a difficulty.

I think you're understimating how useful an extra SP can be, but regardless about that, one of the best things about the Oracle is that you can actually build it. So many of the wonders that appear great on paper are taken by the AI before you get a chance - look at the Great Library for example.

Yeah, but I would probably be gunning either for Hanging Gardens or Petra, both wonders which could be built even on Immortal\Deity. Petra is territorial, so there's a chance that you might get it if you go straight tech for Petra. Hanging Gardens is also managable, since AI tends to pick GL\Stone first, so it's same. Go streight for HG tech wise, squize production if you must - even if it means starvation for turn or two... Once HG is built, it will quickly replace all the lost time on building it.

Oracle was great in GnK, but social policies are much easier to get in BnW, so it isn't that big of a deal, and I would rather build temples\markets\trade routes. (is it just me, or caravans\cargo takes way too much time to build at the beginning, only to get plundered by barbs on the next turn? )

 

[BrotherInJah]

Alhambra - 12
Big Ben - 15 - 3 = 12.
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 28
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 6
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 30
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 19 +1 = 20
Sydney Opera House - 7
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

HS -Merciorum forgott to add points for upvoting

BB - if you vote just for plain bonus/effect it brings it would by on green side of points, but if you judge by time when it arrive and sopol tree with it comes i can't remember a single game in BNW when i build it.

SH - for havy rel game SH is a must.

 

[Krajzen]

Alhambra - 9 AI is crazy about bulding that very fast, +20% to culture isn't groundbreaking, free rough promotion maybe is nice but still I never build it
Big Ben - 12
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 28 -10% to unhappiness in really much, and these delegates who can dominate World Congress from the very beginning
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 6
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 30
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 19 +1 = 20
Sydney Opera House - 7
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

"for havy rel game SH is a must."

Never say anything is a MUST in this game, I have seen me or AI "achieving religious victory" with heavy religion bonuses but without the SH. While this +5 faith is cool early game, there are so many other sources of faith you can definitely create powerful religion withour SH.

 

[bbbt]

Alhambra - 9
Big Ben - 15 - 3 = 12
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 6
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31Always useful, no matter your VC
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra-22
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4Not bad, but generally too late in my games to contribute much.
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

 

[BrotherInJah]

"for havy rel game SH is a must."

Never say anything is a MUST in this game, I have seen me or AI "achieving religious victory" with heavy religion bonuses but without the SH. While this +5 faith is cool early game, there are so many other sources of faith you can definitely create powerful religion withour SH.

Agree, you can choose appropriate civ and go rel.. and end up as one of three or four major rel in game, but if you want to be focused even more on rel you build SH. Get rel civ, build SH, go + pantheon, get rel buildings, get cheap missionaries, go piety and flood the world with your rel. That is what i call "heavy religion game". And i must play it now..

 

[holywar]

Alhambra - 9
Big Ben - 12 - 3 = 9. Big Ben is awful. I recently down voted it on the coolest wonder thread, but then decided to give it another chance by building it in a game I am playing. The wonder itself is as bad as the irritating, random quote. The reason I built it was so I could buy spaceship parts cheaper. The other benefit was +2 great merchant points. That's it. Both of these effects already exist in a more powerful form on the commerce policy tree - entrepreneurship (+25% GM generation) and mercantilism (-25% purchasing in cities). The policies were great. Big Ben? meh. There is nothing unique about the effects of this wonder and it's usually not worth building even in the few situations where it could be useful. This is one of those wonders that needs a social policy attached to it.
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 6
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 29
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra-22 + 1 = 23. I have to upvote Petra based on its uniqueness. It is the only wonder that can single-handedly turn a completely unviable city into the crown of your empire. I have founded cities in the past based solely on the expectation that I would build this wonder, and knowing that I am totally screwed if someone beats me to it. No social policy or other wonder will save a desert city without flood plains except Petra. It is available early enough in the game to have a huge impact on the trajectory of your civilization. And the sweet feeling you get when you see a worthless eyesore of a city instantly transform into a jewel... ah, it's nice.
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

 

[sendos]

Alhambra - 9
Big Ben - 9
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 3 - rather situational wonder. Rewards those who develop strong early tech but ignore religion altogether. It isn't very useful if you already have a religion and it is already enhanced. Could build a holy site with it or spread religion, but if AI is smart enough to spread religion as well, it is somewhat pointless.
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 30 - a great wonder that buffs wide empires.
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra- 23
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21

 

[Memoryjar]

Alhambra - 9
Big Ben - 9
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 27 + 1 = 28. Happiness !
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 3
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31
Louvre- 22
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 30
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra- 23
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4
Temple of Artemis - 17
Uffizi- 21 -3 = 18 : Maybe i miss something with Uffizi. «Gandhi has build Uffizi», good for him, just don't care. I think have always build something other than it if i open Aesthetics. Time i build it, i didn't sense it gave me a real advantage. I used to win with culture without. Sydney Opera House and his + 50 % in culture after hotel is more important. Do i miss something ?

 

[sendos]

Uffizi- 21 -3 = 18 : Maybe i miss something with Uffizi. «Gandhi has build Uffizi», good for him, just don't care. I think have always build something other than it if i open Aesthetics. Time i build it, i didn't sense it gave me a real advantage. I used to win with culture without. Sydney Opera House and his + 50 % in culture after hotel is more important. Do i miss something ?

It's mainly good for free artist and theming bonus. Combine with France UA or aestethics finisher and you get 6 tourism from the theming bonus. It's not a crucial wonder but if you're after a theming bonus combo, it helps. In my current game, I just missed out on a theming bonus combo as I had 2 renaissance GWA's in Uffizi, then entered into industrial era and got an artist. These theming bonuses tend to be hard to get, but they help for early tourism influence. The culture wonders are a great way to overtake other civs on tourism.

 

[amphreded]

Alhambra - 9
Big Ben - 9
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 28
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 3
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31
Louvre- 22-3 = 19. It's a good wonder for cultural victory, but otherwise I don't need it. Also requires opening of Exploration which sometimes isn't useful.
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 30
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra- 23
Porcelain Tower - 22
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4
Temple of Artemis - 17 + 1 = 18. In term of power might not be the best wonder out there, but I can get it most of the time in immortal. Comes with archery tech, and the +15% production to ranged unit is a good incentive to build archers which are useful in early game, whether protecting against other civs or barbs, or clearing camps for CS quests. +10% growth is good, though not as good as Hanging Garden - and you have to be mindful of unhappiness going wide. I really like +1 Engineer Point early in the game though. By the time you get the first engineer, it synchronizes with the unlocking of many wonders
Uffizi- 18

 

[GoStu]

Alhambra - 9
Big Ben - 9 +1 = 10
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 28
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 3
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31
Louvre- 19
Machu Picchu- 23
Neuschwanstein - 30
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra- 23
Porcelain Tower - 22 -3 = 19
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4
Temple of Artemis - 18
Uffizi - 18

Upvote to Big Ben. People down voting it need to go check their math and note that Big Ben and the Social Policy stack additively to give 40% discount on everything. Try using the numbers of roughly 5k gold, and buying the Factories on the same tech. You can buy 5 normally, 6 with the social policy alone, and 8 with Big Ben and the social policy. You've already opened Commerce if you're building Big Ben, and it's a tree absolutely worth stacking with Big Ben.

Downvote to Porcelain tower. I'm not 100% certain on how Ra's work but I know they're tied to the science of the weaker researcher as well. Does this bonus really give more beakers? I'd probably like it better if it showed a breakdown of how many beakers were generated at the end of the agreement. The free GS isn't bad of course, but it's a lot of work for one scientist.

 

[bbbt]

Alhambra - 6Not bad - free castle, drill I, and a nice culture boost - but not spectacular, especially since the AI is always gunning for it. Also indicative of the lack of good military wonders.
Big Ben - 10
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 28
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 3
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31
Louvre- 19
Machu Picchu- 24A solid financial boost for the empire
Neuschwanstein - 30
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra- 23
Porcelain Tower - 19
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4
Temple of Artemis - 18
Uffizi - 18

 

[vibe96]

Alhambra - 6
Big Ben - 10
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 28
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 3
Hanging Gardens- 26
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31
Louvre- 20 The artists really help
Machu Picchu- 24
Neuschwanstein - 30
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra- 23
Porcelain Tower - 19
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4
Temple of Artemis - 15 I can't believe how the GL was voted off before this. The temple comes even earlier than GL, and the AI loves it as well. Also you can get early food from many sources (tradition, pantheon, terrain) but where can you get science? National College? That crucial NW can be rushed ever earlier with GL. Can somebody tell why this is better than GL. If you say "you can't build GL on deity", I say how often do you build this. I have build it like 2 times in all my games.
Uffizi - 18

 

[Kintara]

Alhambra - 6
Big Ben - 10
Borobudur -17
Broadway - 18
Chichen Itza - 25
Colossus - 21
Eiffel Tower - 28
Forbidden Palace- 29
Globe Theater - 14
Hagia Sophia - 3
Hanging Gardens- 23 It's good for getting a Garden in someplace dry, and sometimes the social policy requirement helps you get it. But that's not enough.
Hubble Space Telescope- 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa- 31
Louvre- 20
Machu Picchu- 24
Neuschwanstein - 30
Notre Dame- 23
Oracle- 26
Petra- 23
Porcelain Tower - 19
Prora- 23
Sistine Chapel - 27
Statue Of Liberty- 25
Stonehenge- 20
Sydney Opera House - 4
Temple of Artemis - 16 The AI doesn't start with Archery, so an early ruin can sling you into it sometimes. The Temple of Artemis is way better than the Hanging Gardens. Let's look at a four city empire with all the cities at size 15 and +10 food (40 food - 30 from population). The Temple of Artemis adds 16 food, almost three times as much as the Hanging Gardens. This is not the same bonus as Fertility Rites, and the food read out on the city view doesn't display this properly. My example empire is getting a 40% growth bonus from Temple of Artemis. 40%! 10% food bonus, but 40% growth bonus. It gives you a Great Engineer point for a well-timed wonder. The production bonus is just a cherry on top. Early wonders have their issues, but this one is my favorite.
Uffizi - 18