Wonder Graphics: Bullfight Arena

One reason why I left the audience 60% empty is the controversy around bullfighting of this day and age.

Personally, I don't rate it far from food industry, animals are treated bad just to bargain market prices. On the arena bull has a chance to fight, in a meat processing plant only relieve is the production line. Boxing is as morally questionable as a form of violent entertainment. If it would suddenly be a form of entertainment in my country, I probably would oppose it because it's not something I've been dealing with since I was born. But, as things are how they are, I don't feel a need to tell people from totally different background what is right and what is wrong in my opinion - at least in this case.

Torero hint: He's from industrial age
 
HooDoo said:
"Spectacle for oil"????? This has something to do with ... what?
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like... watching the news everyday to see what's new in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kurdistan, Venezuela, Colombia, etc... always in the best light, with ready made reports, on sight coverage and prime-time specials... the world is full of immoral spectacles...

Kill a bull, its a tragedy, bomb a city- its on CNN Live ...!
 
Looks very nice! :) I don't know who the matador is but I think the bull is Ferdinand... "And he sat under his cork oak and smelled the flowers"
 
And I bet you never look at car wrecks when you drive by them ... and be honest with yourself and us when you answer that in your own mind. Humanity is, and always has been, at once repulsed and fascinated by violence, blood, and gore (and usually more fascinated than repulsed). Did you make the same complaints when vanilla Civ gave us the Colosseum? Only God knows how many people and animals died there and in other arenas. What about the Meso American pyramids, which were elevated and built specifically to be able to handle huge numbers of human sacrifices so that the priests did not lose their footing in the blood and gore and fall down in front of the adoring masses? What about the Inquisition, and public beheadings? American football? Rugby?

I am in a line of work where every day I witness the horrible things people do to their children. Don't tell me about the nobility of the human race. Most people fool you by walking upright. And CNN did not generate watchers for its violent content. The market was already there and CNN made a buttload of money by catering to its readymade audience.

Wanting to have improvements/wonders that represent the darker side of history does not mean that one wishes to celebrate violence, or hatred, or death. It simply means that one wishes to come as close as one can in this game to capturing the reality of our past and present.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you wholeheartedly. The world is full of immoral spectacles. Our current worldwide population has a love affair with violence and death and has an unprecedented access to movies, video games, TV shows, and news media with violent content. But our current worldwide population is not the first to be this way. Humanity has always had this penchant for violence and gore. Modern technology used by CNN, Fox, IBN, etc. has just brought the Colosseum into our living rooms 24/7. Forty-five thousand years ago, our ancestors had to draw their violent images on cave walls by firelight. In forty-five thousand years nothing has changed but the technology we use to kill and destroy and the technology we use to allow others to witness that violence.
 
And I bet you never look at car wrecks when you drive by them ...
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and indeed you won :) seen people die before and have seen enough violence in my time in El Salvador to know what it would look like.

Returning from earth orbital to bullfights: The thing is that I know what a proper bullfight should ideally look like: Gracefull! The torero is suposed to defy the beast, not with violence, yet with elegance and style- until the final stroke the animal is not badly wounded, yet angered by the spikes pinching its fat- not moribound but tired. Then, and only then the "toque de gracia" is to be carried out- only once (ideally) and with instant lethal result- without violence: This is a bullfight!

I have also seen what bullfights should not look like (and I remember one pretty nasty one where the bull was short sighted and kept going for the torero for that was the only thing he was able to make out). To make a long story short the bull did not behave as intended and got badly wounded (the torero also got some scars and lost his sword stuck in the bull). He tried to remove it- it was stuck too deep. They brought him a second sword, he tried again and again he messed up. He then tried 4 more times but the wounded, half blind animal always attacked him directly. When they finally managed to remove the other sword the bull collapsed. The audience who had been shouting and calling the torero all sort of names since the moment of having lost his sword to the obviously non-corrida-apt animal, now started to throw vegetables at him- the matador then left the arena. The audience had long demanded the bull to be spared. Then followed a few minutes of inactivity while the board was debating with the veterinaries. The the signal was given to cull the animal with a broad, short blade (no idea what it is called) by the most senior banderillero (the matador had meanwhile been kicked out). And if this had not been horrible enough it took this guy eight (8) attempts to take the bull out of its missery- Now this is what I call cruelty to animals! This is violent! - No grace, no elegance- just a butcher's cleaver hacking away living, breathing flesh. This is what I don't call Bullfight!

My conclusion: If I must chose between a good bullfight and the daily war reports I will definitly chose the corrida- I don't like violence.
 
Ukas said:
@Dom Pedro: Same here, I thought it'll be business as usual.
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2%20Espada.jpg

I concurr...
 
Woah! two ears and a tail for ukas :goodjob:

Some fresh news: that arena will be a commercial center in a short time. No more bullfights at Barcelona:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3605225.stm

I'm sure everybody has seen a lot of bullfighting images at the TV but I can assure you it is becoming a marginal practice except for some places like Pamplona or Madrid. And it continues mainly because of tourist that wants to see it
 
Niessuh said:
I'm sure everybody has seen a lot of bullfighting images at the TV but I can assure you it is becoming a marginal practice except for some places like Pamplona or Madrid. And it continues mainly because of tourist that wants to see it
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See, people? It's tourists' fault! Probably American... :lol: :joke:
 
Probably is, I know my grandparents used to travel around Mexico to see the bullfights.

And there is nothing immoral or inhumane about boxing. I used to do it, my dad was a champion in the Marines, and it is consentual by both parties. If we want to knock our heads in then let us.

P.S.-This is awesome, and I will be addng it to my Mexican and Spanish civs for my personal mod.
 
tjedge1 said:
And there is nothing immoral or inhumane about boxing. I used to do it, my dad was a champion in the Marines, and it is consentual by both parties. If we want to knock our heads in then let us.
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I think the point of contention isn't so much whether it's inhumane to the boxers since they are willing participants... I think it's more of a reflection on the inherent flaw in human nature that makes us want to watch two guys beat each other up, and sometimes, much, much worse... as in the case with the gladiators.
 
Ok, yeah, gladiators were different. They were slaves and criminals a lot of the time, and that just wasn't right. Boxing can be brutal, but not like the gladiators. Probably not as brutal as Rugby, either. I get your point, though.
 
I like to watch boxing, it's pretty exciting... especially when Amir Khan boxes, hes one hell of a boxer! :) You should have heard Paulo Roberto when he commented Khan's matches in the olympics! Man he was overexcited! :lol:
 
Here is my views on homo sapien sapien and their relationship to violence. Just like any sporting events, there are two groups of spectators. The first and larger group usually likes to see the home team slaughter the other side. They are not true fans of the sport so much as the team they are rooting for. The second group is a fan of the sport. They want to see an even contest that requires skill, grace, and honor to win.

That means many just like seeing the torero beating down on a bull. The true bullfight fans like to see a man using cunning to defeat a very dangerous foe.

Boxing is another good example. There are a lot less MIke Tyson fans because the man is a thug. He is not a good boxer, but rather tough and mean. The lightweights in general seem to actually box rather than slug it out.

NBA basketball looks a lot more like stree hoops than basketball. It is full of phenomenal athletes, but they do not play a good game of basketball. International teams that played the game beat them in the Olympics. In the US that style of play was popular with audiences because it belonged in the first group.
 
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