Wonders biased towards the U.S.?

[Randle]

EDIT: And the American flag shown on the icon, as well as the portrait there, are a poke at Al "I Invented the Internet" Gore.

Al Gore, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

In other words, he helped push stuff through Congress that led to the creation of the Internet. He never claimed to have been involved in inventing the technology behind the Internet, he just pushed for funding and what not.

 

[redplague]

Sure it is biased, US is the games primary market, the developers live in the US, and so on and so on. However, I do agree that CIV4 could very well be the MOST biased release of civ yet?

Hollywood
Broadway
Rock N' Roll
The Internet
Wall Street
Mt. Rushmore

Broadway should have been replaced with WestEnd.
Mt. Rushmore should not have been there at all, etc, etc...

The internet was invented by a Briton.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Foe me the Pentagon is definitely NOT a wonder but they had to choose something that stands for a superiour military and there was no alternative.

But the names of national wonders should have been neutral like simply "military academy" instead of westpont.
Why does every nation build mount rushmore ?
And why can Oxford University be built in Oxford, Cologne, Nanjing, Timbuktu... ? Yes, it's English but i think you know what I mean.
Now for the Apollo programm: What is so special about that one ? The beginning of spaceflight ? Sputnik.
First humans in space ? Gagarin.

 

[sgrealis]

Now for the Apollo programm: What is so special about that one ? The beginning of spaceflight ? Sputnik.
First humans in space ? Gagarin.

Landing astronauts on the moon. I'd say that's rather significant.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Yeah, but sputnik and gagarin were just as significant.

 

[Myxer]

It's interesting, most of the arguing is over the National Wonders, like Mt. Rushmore, Wall Street, West Point or Projects like Apollo or The Internet, when in essence these aren't wonders in the same sense as the World Wonders, they are local wonders, and while I would appreciate a individual national wonder for each civ for each effect, I wouldn't appreciate the strain it would add to my computer trying to run Civ4

I think I would've preferred to see the Sydney Opera House replace Broadway, while neither is a wonder on the scale of say the Hanging Gardens, the effect they give in the game would be a logical transition.

Same for Mt. Rushmore being replaced with Tiananmen square, if there is a symbolic place for someone showing they are starting to tire of an gov't acting in a manor they dont' agree with, this would be it. Of course if they really want some stone heads in here for a wonder, you could always use the Easter Island Stone heads

I would also replace the Eiffel Tower with the CN Tower, a little hometown bias here, but if you think about why the Eiffel Tower was built, as a attraction for the world's fair and why the CN Tower was built, specifically as a giant radio tower, the effect in the game is again more logical and it is listed as one of the 7 modern wonders.

As for West Point, I can't really think of a comparable academy out there, but that might just be my own western hemisphere ignorance, but as a possible replacement maybe Red Square which I believed has been mentioned.

As for replacing Apollo with Sputnik, Sputnik already has a place in the game "beep...beep...beep...beep"

As for Hollywood, with the current state of movies coming from there, I think they should change the affect to be minus culture

The developers probably went through the same list as most of us, and I have to admit, I had a tough time replacing the current wonders with other ones that would make sense in the same time frame, for example, the Pentagon or West Point could easily be replaced with Great Wall or Alhambra and Wall Street or Three Gorges Dam could be replaced with Petra, but they hardly coincide with the time period they become available in the game.

 

[The Conquerer22]

I think there is an error in the above list, since ins't the Hermitage actually
in Russia ? At least I found the following text with Google:

"The State Hermitage occupies six magnificent buildings situated along the embankment of the River Neva, right in the heart of St Petersburg. The leading role in this unique architectural ensemble is played by the Winter Palace, the residence of the Russian tsars that was built to the design of Francesco Bartolomeo Rastrelli in 1754-62. This ensemble, formed in the 18th and 19th centuries, is extended by the eastern wing of the General Staff building, the Menshikov Palace and the recently constructed Repository"

Or does the Hermitage wonder in the Civ 4 mean something else ?

You are talking about the state not the actual building

 

[FreeTerminus]

Hi My opinion on the subject is this: Many American wonders are well known throughout the world. Who doesn't recognize the Statue of Liberty and what it symbolizes?
That said, I think that there should be many more non-US wonders added to the game...The rest of the world has done a lot, too Plus, some of the US wonders are not well known outside the US (as this thread indicates).
I dont know if I would replace each American wonder...I might make some of the national wonders more generic (Its a little strange for Russia to be building the Apollo program, I think, especially when they were the ones in space first!).
But ultimately, I'm not that concerned about it. I didn't even really think about the issue until I opened the thread

Oh, and the Hermitage I think is in Russia. A very famous museum now.

 

[ChristianII]

A sputnik wonder maybe?

I would like to see big ben and things like that

"The french have built a giant grandfather clock and wins a cultural victory"

 

[yavoon]

Yeah, but sputnik and gagarin were just as significant.

no, they weren't.

 

[yavoon]

I recon that they were MORE significant.
Whats so special about the moon? its just a rock in space. However, being the first in space is something completely knew.

Put it this way. Going to the moon is like being the first man to cross the atlantic by plane. Being the first man in space, is like being the first man to fly.

its the only other body we've ever landed a person on. and the americans are the only ppl to have ever done it(not to even mention first). It is the pre-eminent space achievement by far.

 

[Dusty4prez]

You guys really shouldn't count national wonders, excpet the obvious ones like Mt Rushmore and Wall Street. THey basically just mean every country has had a building like that. I have never heard of West Point or Red Square so I don't really care about that. The Pentagon shouldn't be a world wonder simply enough, it should be a national wonder.

 

[Dusty4prez]

its the only other body we've ever landed a person on. and the americans are the only ppl to have ever done it(not to even mention first). It is the pre-eminent space achievement by far.

Wow I would think that if they're the only ones to ever do it of course they're going to be first. Then you also have to realize that some people will think that America never landed on the moon and that it was just staged. The staged idea has proof too but I'm not going into it here.

 

[Sisonpyh]

But the names of national wonders should have been neutral like simply "military academy" instead of westpont.
Why does every nation build mount rushmore ?
And why can Oxford University be built in Oxford, Cologne, Nanjing, Timbuktu... ? Yes, it's English but i think you know what I mean.
.

Its called 'being lazy' and letting modders do the rest.

 

[yavoon]

Wow I would think that if they're the only ones to ever do it of course they're going to be first. Then you also have to realize that some people will think that America never landed on the moon and that it was just staged. The staged idea has proof too but I'm not going into it here.

yah and there is a flat earth society too. dont mean it has real credibility.

 

[Esox]

Now for the Apollo programm: What is so special about that one ? The beginning of spaceflight ? Sputnik.

In the GAME, completing Apollo means that a civ is capable of not just space flight, but of human travel to and from a specific destination in space. Not only is it pretty "special", it's a necessary precursor to a victory condition- reaching Alpha Centauri.

 

[Paeanblack]

Says you...

Do everone here a favour and leave the bullshite patriotic act off this forum. We have heard it all before.

Yes, is that why americas debt to profit ratio is the highest in the world and history, is it?

It seems to me that your wonders aren't working.

For clarification:

National Debts as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product
Japan 170%
Italy 107%
Belgium 94%
India 82%
Phillipines 77%
Argentina 69%
Germany 68%
Turkey 67%
France 65%
United States 65%
Austria 63%
Switzerland 53%
Indonesia 53%
Sweden 50%
Spain 49%
England 42%
South Africa 38%
Canada 38%
China 29%
Russia 16%
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html

The debt load of the US is quite average; the raw GDP just happens to be large. As far as your historical claim, the US debt load after World War II was almost double its current value, peaking at 122%.

 

[Paeanblack]

Oh boy!! How will a civ benefit from the Berlin Wall?? Maybe a very sarcastic national wonder for vassal states in Warlords?!?!?

I had an idea for the Berlin Wall that somewhat fits the historical role:

Berlin Wall
World Wonder
Flight
800 hammers (+100% with Stone)
Zero foreign culture in city radius.

Basically, it guarantees access to the fat cross and is immune to culture flip. This could be damn useful for securing a beachhead on a new continent.

 

[Paeanblack]

Except that The NY Stock Exchange was a copy of another country's. I believe in the UK, they have a Wall Street equivalent called the West End that was there first.

La Bourse (Paris) would probably be a good swap...it's older and fits better with the game. Wall Street (NYSE) was built much later than the era the Corporation tech should represent. {English/Dutch} {East/West} Indes Corporations are better still, but they have the "overly specific name" problem.

 

[Silver Marmot]

The game was designed by Americans. The game is marketed primarily to Americans. What do you expect?

That being said, the only American wonder that I definitely think could be replaced is Mount Rushmore. As an American, I will say that it's not all that impressive-looking, I have no plans of going to North Dakota (or is it South Dakota? - I'm honestly not even sure) to see it, and I think there are far more impressive national monuments from many countries that could be used instead.