Word "slave" in English should be uprooted.

Should word "slave" be uprooted?


  • Total voters
    36
In defense of the Philippines against the Japanese invasion in 1941-42, U.S. cavalry actually charged the enemy on horseback.

They don't teach this in American schools, I bet. The last mounted charge of WW2 took place in 1945 by a Waffen SS cavalry unit.
 
Indeed. One thing that it was Nazi (and Communist too) propaganda. Another thing, that all armies of WW2 used cavalry. The Red Army force which invaded Poland on 17.09.1939 included fourteen Cavalry Divisions. The Soviets had more cavalry in that invasion force alone, than Poland in entire army.

Polish cavalry was at that time just mounted infantry. They moved to battle on horseback, then dismounted and fought as infantry.

Only in exceptional situations they charged, and a dozen or so such charges took place in 1939 - none of which against tanks.

IIRC, the famed video was very edited footage of a situation where Polish cavalry had charged infantry (quite successfully) then saw the tanks coming and (quite sensibly) decided not to charge them.

Nazi propaganda, like you said, re-edited the footage to make it look like they had been charging the tanks.
 
Wow, I want a Slav slave too now.

Just not Domen, I don't want charts and graphs about genetics / heredity being drawn all over my walls.
 
Oda Nobunaga:

The video was part of a German feature film made in 1941, titled "Kampfgeschwader Lützow".

And it wasn't showing Polish soldiers but German actors / extras.

In WW2 they did not have helmet cams or other types of handy, small, mobile cameras.

Without such cameras, filming frontline combat is practically impossible. So they usually filmed artillery fire or armies on the march, or soldiers in trenches but not during combat, etc., or reenactment of combat.

For example videos showing D-Day landings were not filmed on D-Day, but a few days later.

In general there is not much of real battle footage from WW2.

Today you can just type "helmet cam Afghanistan/Ukraine/Syria You Tube", and you will find some.

================

Here is the scene from "Kampfgeschwader Lützow" in question:


Link to video.
 
I think existance of such a name is offensive for all the nations mentioned and thus should be uprooted from English language. It perpetuates the idea of Slavic subhumanness that existed in Western European countries even before. In some German cities, up to XIX century no Slav could be a citizen, and even in XIX century German scientists coined a proverb "Slavica non leguntur" ("Texts by Slavic authors should not be read"). This paved a way for Hitler's politics who wanted to create his lebensraum in Slavic countries - especially Poland, but also Ukraine, Belarus and Russia.

The existance of anti-Slavic tendencies in Western culture is often neglected, because Slavs are part of the same civilisation. They are "ours", but worse kind of "ours". But it makes it easier to attack them, because it is not seen as racism, while similar remarks directed towards Jews, Pakistanis etc would be impossible.

This allowed anti-Polish rhetorics of Farage and even Cameron.

The use of word slave is only a symbol of this internalised feeling of disdain towards Slavic peoples and superiority that exists in some western countries.

Discuss.

OK. Yes. Maybe.

What word shall we use instead of slave though? Forced labourer?
 
Why only in english? What about French, German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese or even Romanian, and any other language with latin influenced vocabulary?
 
As we've already established, word "slave" in English comes from Slavs.

*YOU* can't establish anything like that. At best you can suppose it and btw I strongly disagree with this theory since the root of the word is different from "Slav" in any language except English, and given that English is one of the most mixed languages in Europe I find it hard to be acceptable that it is taken as a model to explain the ethymology of any word commonly used in Europe.
In the end, any serious vocabulary will mention that the origin of this word is ALL BUT established.

[...]
This allowed anti-Polish rhetorics of Farage and even Cameron.

[...]

Discuss.

Why should we open a specific discussion about a polish user of civfanatics taking offense on a petty matter? It's almost everywhere on these forums.
Let's discuss the broader issue instead. Perhaps there is too much nationalism and pride in Poland? You are polish, maybe you could try to elaborate and explain how it is even possible to bring up such a poll.
 
And here I hoped at least one Russian, Ukrainian or Belarusian would post in this thread befor a non-Slav butts in. :(
It might be the demographics of this forum, but I've noticed it's usually only Poles who talk about these things :dunno:

Thinking about it, the word Pole is also very misleading. There are only two poles, north and south. I suggest we rename Poland to West-Russia or something.
 
Onedreamer,

onedreamer said:
(...) Perhaps there is too much nationalism and pride in Poland? (...)

Quite the contrary - there is not enough nationalism and pride in Poland:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polactwo

Polactwo (literally "Polackness") – a book by Rafał Ziemkiewicz, published in 2004,[1] 2007.[2]

Author tries to explain what happened with Poles after the fall of communism and the toxic influence of tens of years of communism and destruction it brought to Poland. He tells about destructive force of people gathered around Adam Michnik - a thesis which he follows in "Michnikowszczyzna. Zapis choroby" book. He tries to describe the reasons and effects of low self-esteem of Poles as a nation, who regard themeselves low in sociological studies.

According to Ziemkiewicz, the reason are processes that shaped the society through the years of partitions and communism. He says the social situation is similar to that of other post-communist countries, and also post-slavery [post-colonial] societies.
 
Domen : you're right about the video (it was not shot during the event) ; but the event did happen as described (Polish cavalry successfully charged German troops, came under attack by armored vehicles with machine gun and withdrew). It is the origin of the polish cavalry charge against tanks myth.

I'll also note that "helmet cams" (no, really, they didn't have them? Do you think I'm a simpleton?) or not, there IS actual genuine war footage of WW2 battlefield. The cameras involved were more cumbersome, but the footage exist.
 
There is not much of actual WW2 combat footage which features real combat at close quarters.

From the invasion of Poland in 1939 there is, IIRC, only one genuine video showing such a firefight.

And even that video was filmed by a camera placed on top of a large hill, while targets were below.

Show me a video showing a real Japanese infantry attack against U.S. Marines, for example.

There is none. Videos showing "close ups" of enemy infantry or cavalry or tanks don't exist.
 
"Author tries to explain what happened with Poles after the fall of communism and the toxic influence of tens of years of communism and destruction it brought to Poland."

In case you fail to understand it, this is an example of pride and nationalism, not the other way around.
 
The excerpt you have chosen is irrelevant. Bolded text was there for a reason:

"low self-esteem of Poles as a nation, who regard themeselves low in sociological studies"

This is the relevant fragment (that's why I bolded it, and the other excerpt too).

In case you fail to understand it, this is an example of pride and nationalism, not the other way around.

I indeed fail to understand it.

Where is "pride" in mentioning toxic influence of slavery, colonialism, persecution, or Communism?

North Korea is not under toxic leadership right now?
 
On the bright side, for the most part the word slave fits in well for the conditions we work in Europe.
 
"low self-esteem of Poles as a nation, who regard themeselves low in sociological studies"

This is a part of the reason why some Poles jump on historical inaccuracies, misunderstandings, and or a lack of knowledge with: "Hey so I think you want to know more about Poland, let me tell you the story of my people."

I think, anyway. I haven't lived in Poland in quite a while, and I am a part of Polonia (Polish diaspora), but the cultural dynamics here in Canada must be quite a bit different than those in Poland. I was back there 10 years ago and the place seems completely different than the place we left behind during communist times. I sort of feel more Canadian than Polish these days, even though even recently I used to tell people it's an even split.
 
I don't really see the point of this one tbh
 
Let me assure that when English speakers hear "slave" they are not making subconscious associations with Polish people.

You sure?

SxjeJ.png
 
Back
Top Bottom