Work Boat & Flood Plain Advice Needed

I find that lately I'm not using the whip much. Just growing to happy then building workers/settlers with high food/production tiles. I dunno if this is the best way to go, but it seems to work alright. Maybe whip some prior to caste system, but you really want caste system and hereditary rule as fast as possible imo.
 
no need to whip settlers/workers if you are working high food tiles.

i whip a settler sometimes for 2/3 pop and thats when im planning to build for example a granary or a library afterwards, so the city can keep working high food tiles (and by that time I have at least 1 mine up) instead of working forest tiles.

other then that i rarely whip settlers/workers.
 
Dunno how you intend to order your workers to chop the forest hills and then mine them later or just order them to mine the forest hill from the outset (ie delay the chop hammers until the mine completes). Sometimes delaying is useful eg you are about to learn Mathematics or complete the Forge. In your situation delaying the chop gives you a few more turns of the health benefit of the forest.

This matters as the forest hills are your only source of hammers, you don't want to chop one that your citizens are working (unless converting the forest straight to a mine). Best policy is to organise workers and citizens so you are not chopping forests you are working unless you mine the forest directly.
 
@CivCorpse, futurehermit, and stormyorky - Thanks for staying with me even though this game has already begun.
I cannot go any further without:
Spoiler :
Yes, this is going to be a challenging game for me, to be sure. I'm not really a Monarch player....so maybe this is a blessing in disguise and a good learning experience in how to deal with adversity because the relative scarcity of food resources that could be an issue with a specialist economy. I briefly thought about "giving this game up" but I'll give it a go and see what happens. (Not making any promises yet, though.)
This will be a SLOW game if I play it out because I need to carefully consider a lot of things before making any moves. I need all the science and commerce I can get my hands on right now. I tend to agree with futurehermit about using "the whip" sparingly for now because I could only find 40 gold or so from a goody hut to help pay upkeep (also found animal husbandry from a hut) and I will have to keep my science beaker as high as possible for as long as possible. Cultural victory? Seems like a longshot because there aren't that many hills and the forests in the northern half of this small continent that help for rushing builds also seem to be a bit scarce. The southern half of this continent is covered with jungle, so it is a low priority for now....tempting me to try to expand east or west with cheap galleys (or maybe even an odball work boat since there are a lot of coasts due to the low sea level) once I study sailing when I get my first 3-4 cities on this land.
Colussus and Pyramids appear to be a "MUST HAVE" for this one....
Even at Marathon speed, if feels that I have SO many priorities with so little time to act here. I also must consider evaluating "SAILING" quickly since Marathon speed gives you a "time bonus" for producing early naval units for exploration compared to faster game speeds. Food and commerce seem "okay" (especially for a couple of coastal city sites) but production appears to be at a premium except for the hills around the stone tile....I will have to look at some potential city sites and so forth before going much further. I'm also wondering if I should keep the "stoney hill" city landlocked so I can place a "commerce city" in a more ideal position north of it so it captures both wine and incense (but hammers will be at a premium in that city even with Moai Statues).
Okay, there's my 2 :commerce: for now.




Thanks for your post, Perugia. Was typing this out when you posted.

~Benford's Law
 
@CivCorpse, futurehermit, and stormyorky - Thanks for staying with me even though this game has already begun.
I cannot go any further without:
Spoiler :
Yes, this is going to be a challenging game for me, to be sure. I'm not really a Monarch player....so maybe this is a blessing in disguise and a good learning experience in how to deal with adversity because the relative scarcity of food resources that could be an issue with a specialist economy. I briefly thought about "giving this game up" but I'll give it a go and see what happens. (Not making any promises yet, though.)
This will be a SLOW game if I play it out because I need to carefully consider a lot of things before making any moves. I need all the science and commerce I can get my hands on right now. I tend to agree with futurehermit about using "the whip" sparingly for now because I could only find 40 gold or so from a goody hut to help pay upkeep (also found animal husbandry from a hut) and I will have to keep my science beaker as high as possible for as long as possible. Cultural victory? Seems like a longshot because there aren't that many hills and the forests in the northern half of this small continent that help for rushing builds also seem to be a bit scarce. The southern half of this continent is covered with jungle, so it is a low priority for now....tempting me to try to expand east or west with cheap galleys (or maybe even an odball work boat since there are a lot of coasts due to the low sea level) once I study sailing when I get my first 3-4 cities on this land.
Colussus and Pyramids appear to be a "MUST HAVE" for this one....
Even at Marathon speed, if feels that I have SO many priorities with so little time to act here. I also must consider evaluating "SAILING" quickly since Marathon speed gives you a "time bonus" for producing early naval units for exploration compared to faster game speeds. Food and commerce seem "okay" (especially for a couple of coastal city sites) but production appears to be at a premium except for the hills around the stone tile....I will have to look at some potential city sites and so forth before going much further. I'm also wondering if I should keep the "stoney hill" city landlocked so I can place a "commerce city" in a more ideal position north of it so it captures both wine and incense (but hammers will be at a premium in that city even with Moai Statues).
Okay, there's my 2 :commerce: for now.




Thanks for your post, Perugia. Was typing this out when you posted.

~Benford's Law

You can use a workboat to explore anything a galley could, and they are cheaper. Post a screen shot of what you have discovered so far and maybe we can help with city placement.
 
If this game gets too overwhelming for me, I'll humbly step down to a lower difficulty setting and a different game (though, the marathon speed and this great starting spot emboldens me to try this game out).

~Benford's Law

When getting a juicy start location like that I sometimes replay the map if I screw it up the first time. On Marathon, the speed can make mistakes very hard to recover from. You can always play the map again trying for cottages rather than an SE. You paid the 40-50 bucks for the game and paid for your computer. Do whatever makes you happy.
 
CivCorpse and any other CivExperts,

When I try out a game, I play it as realistically as possible. No turning back. No reloads. I even checked the "No unit action recommendation" option on the small chance that the computer puts blue circles near resources in unexplored areas my beginning settler shouldn't know about. I'm just trying to make it as realistic of a chess game as possible. If I give up or mess up badly I simply start a whole new game on a whole different map with perhaps a different civ.

Anyway, here are those screenshots:
Spoiler :

I am having trouble with my file attachment system on the CivFanatics site so I had to use Photobucket, instead.
Just click on the links and click on the screenshot itself to zoom in when you see the little magnifying glass:

This is the whole world I've explored (except for the useless polar ice cap up north). Also has some scribbled terrain notes:
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z316/Timevalue/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

This is a zoomed-out version of my possible city squares (with notes). The only worthwhile area to settle is in the middle of the continent for now. Note the proposed locations for the "Commerce" and "Light Production and Commerce" cities would have a connecting river for some trade income once sailing is discovered:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z316/Timevalue/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

A closer look south of Athens at the possible "Heavy Production" city (Near the stone on the left) and the "Light Production/commerce" city on the right by the coast:
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z316/Timevalue/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

A closer look at the area north of Athens. Possible "Heavy Commerce" city on the left by the coast:
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z316/Timevalue/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

EDIT - After looking carefully at the food output on the "Light Production/Commerce City" south of Athens (near the horses)....I've now concluded this would be an excellent spot for a potential "super science city". I think it can support 8 or 9 cottages on top of all the extra commerce income it generates along the coast. The fish and rice food resources are a huge boon to this city radius and looks to be a nice area to settle any Great Scientists....Still trying to shuffle around other possible city sites...

Do these look like good sites to you? I may experience some overlap problems on the BFC's for these cities but I had too hard of a time drawing them out on the screenshots.





Here's my 3250 BC save in case those screenshots don't help (Don't look if you don't want a spoiler!) :)
View attachment Pericles One BC-3250.CivBeyondSwordSave

~Benford's Law
 
This is my take on things
dots.jpg

Red Dot city is the heavy production city. It is healthier than either of your selections because with a harbor built, you get extra health from each seafood resource. You have 2 already and crabs will give you +3. The river gives you +2. It also exchanges a grassland hills for a plains hill. Plus the coastal start makes harbors and Customs house available for increased trade route commerce. If you settle the commerce city to the north as you plan it meshes nicely. Blue Dot is where you would put it. Though i would use it for production of troops. Your two choices for your heavy production would share way too many tiles with your other city. You have plenty of farmable land so it's not like they would be wasted. The only problem with my choice is the three gorges dam/levee is not available there without a riverside location. You can build that in Blue dot if you need to, but with few production cities on this landmass, i would worry about it for a larger landmass with more cities. Your commerce cities should be in the heavily grassland areas to the south.
With minimal hills for your production cities, i would say Metal casting then guilds should be a priority after CoL for caste system. With guilds and caste system you get 4hammers for a plains workshop. That is the same as a mined plains hill.
Also, I would have used the first 2 fishing boats for the clams, since they give you twice the commerce. You are commerce poor this early and you will need it to since you are settling two production cities first.
I would settle redfirst and get that stone going and start the pyramids ASAP, Research sailing while you build the setteler for blue dot. lighthouse/greatlighthouse is the build order for blue dot. The great lighthouse is a HUGE wonder for maps like this. With a harbor and the great lighthouse coastal cities pay for themselves or come very close to it.
While the wonders build, settle 1 commerce coastal city north of red dot then one science city south of blue dot. All the while teching your way to CoL for caste system. Get a boat out there trying to meet new civs. If you can open up some overseas foreighn trade routes with the Great lighthouse you will have plenty of cash. Once you have CoL, either tech towards MC(possible colossus) for the workshops. and then either Lit or drama. If you want the great library in your capital, you should consider putting workshops on the floodplains temporarily. That is one advantage of the SE, you can change the tiles unlike towns which you have to keep as tiles and work forever.
 
I don't like that red dot at all. Athens has too much food, and Redville none worth speaking of. Either two tiles north, to use the floodplains that Athens won't need for many years, or two tiles east, where it will later be able to make good use of the river (blue dot moving one tile east to the hill in the latter case).
 
I don't like that red dot at all. Athens has too much food, and Redville none worth speaking of. Either two tiles north, to use the floodplains that Athens won't need for many years, or two tiles east, where it will later be able to make good use of the river (blue dot moving one tile east to the hill in the latter case).

You gain one floodplain and lose two grassland tiles and have one less grass land hill to work because you are settled on it. At biology that leaves you one less food per turn at a stage where that can mean woking that grassland hill.
 
You gain one floodplain and lose two grassland tiles and have one less grass land hill to work because you are settled on it. At biology that leaves you one less food per turn at a stage where that can mean woking that grassland hill.

Biology is 4000 years away, are you kidding me?

All three moves put cities on plains hills, not grassland hills, with corresponding changes in the floodplain counts.
 
Biology is 4000 years away, are you kidding me?

All three moves put cities on plains hills, not grassland hills, with corresponding changes in the floodplain counts.

Sorry. I misrwad your statement, I thought you said one north
 
I don't like that red dot at all. Athens has too much food, and Redville none worth speaking of. Either two tiles north, to use the floodplains that Athens won't need for many years, or two tiles east, where it will later be able to make good use of the river (blue dot moving one tile east to the hill in the latter case).

Two tiles north were my thoughts exactly.
 
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