Work ethic is quite A BIT broken now....

[Buktu]

Both dams and aquaducts add housing.

I guess it was more about the food since you need tundra for dance of the aurora to work. But there are ways to work around it, settle coastaly in the tundra to get food and housing from fishingboats and lighthouses, settle at the edge of tundra to get some grassland tiles to work, get Gurdwaras (as already mentioned) or trade internally.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Religion serves no direct victory purpose (nobody pursues Religious victory. Nobody)

Guess I'm nobody then!!

Certainly less common than the big three but more than twice as popular as Diplomacy:-

Victory by type

Jun 2020 (Mar 2019) ((Jan 2018)) Delta 2020-2018

Science – 23.5% (21.9%) ((19.5%)) Δ +4.0%
Culture – 23.0% (22.6%) ((21.5%)) Δ +1.5%
Domination – 21.7% (21.2%) ((18.3%)) Δ +3.4%
Religion – 10.6% (9.7%) ((8.7%)) Δ +1.9%
Diplomacy – 4.3% (1.3%) Δ +3.0%

 

[Jewman]

After not playing religious victory in years of playing civ ive gotten 3 in the past week. and its not as tedious as i had thought it would be.

Finished brazil and mali with the work ethic, obviously the games were blowouts and work ethic was absolutely insane. all that talk about losing potential science/culture/military to go the faith route is ONLY true if you miss the adjacency/work ethic combo, otherwise you catch up insanely quickly and then blowout any other strategy. gurdwaras get your cities to 7 or 10 pop much quicker than other strats as well.

Going to play a game with a less intense religious bonus, maybe norway w/ stave churches or japan. you guys have any ideas for less "obvious" religious synergies to try with work ethic??

 

[Inhalaattori]

I dont think its that OP. Some other Follower Beliefs are really strong as well. Religious Community (what were they thinking?) is total trash , but others have their uses. Choral music is extremely strong.

For example feed the world now gives you +6 food and 4 housing in cities with shrine and temple. This means you can work mines and lumber mills that give you tons of production. Feed the world is always good no matter what you do. You have to do a lot to make work ethic truly work.

 

[Aurelesk]

Finished brazil and mali with the work ethic, obviously the games were blowouts and work ethic was absolutely insane. all that talk about losing potential science/culture/military to go the faith route is ONLY true if you miss the adjacency/work ethic combo, otherwise you catch up insanely quickly and then blowout any other strategy. gurdwaras get your cities to 7 or 10 pop much quicker than other strats as well.

I might be in denial in previous posts. I am far from playing competitively and it appears that I failed to see how powerful Work Ethic would be in most common playthrough, thinking that Choral Music will be superior (Culture is important in early game). I admit I am still thinking it is imbalanced only when your whole strategy focus on it. So, what are the suggestion to make it less powerful but still interesting?

1. Get back to 1% per Population? Well, it is good for most Tall players, but the choice and the strategy will be poor for most players.
2. Make it like Choral Music but for Production? Well, this is bland and feel repetitive.
3. Make it a +1 Production or additionnal yield per specialist, but that will be unappealing for many players.
4. Other suggestion?

 

[bengalryan9]

I think I lean towards work ethic not being broken, personally. Most civs and leaders aren't going to be getting gamebreaking amounts of production from it, and with that in mind I think I'm mostly okay with it.

That said, there are a handful of leaders who can abuse the mechanic - Peter, Pedro, and Mansa Musa probably being the top ones with a few others a half step behind them - so I do think a small adjustment to keep their numbers in check makes sense. You could:
-Set a cap for the maximum amount of production you can get from Work Ethic for each city.
-Make it so that Scripture has no impact on the amount of production given by Work Ethic.

I do think it's kind of a boring choice even if it is a powerful one, so I don't know that I'd choose it all that often. That's just personal preference though.

 

[kaspergm]

Say hello to my new best friend.

Spoiler :

22 faith/22 production Holy Site in Medieval Era.

So yeah, what can I say? It may require the perfect start to pull off - I'll admit without hesitation that I had to restart through umpteen all-plains-starts before I pulled this one - but without doubt, under the right circumstances, this belief can be game changing, and I'll say that for civs like Mali, Russia, Japan or maybe even Brazil, those circumstances are not *that* hard to pull off. Btw. as you can see from the minimap, I at this point have 8 cities and 2 settlers on their way, all bought with faith through monumentality.

 

[Buktu]

Australia could be another good candidate for this strat. Tiles next to mountains, woods and natural wonders have a quite good appeal and will trigger "Land down under" im most cases. Also you can focus on getting a religion quite heavily early since you can still pump out tons of units with the production bonus after a declaration of war. Plus you dont need to rely on your pantheon for a good bonus.

 

[TomTorres]

...aside from the actual bug associated with it disappearing when your holy site is pillaged...

Combined with the right adjacency cards I have been able to get +10, +15, +20 hammer cities up easy as Russia with Lavras. At the very least Work Ethic should function like the old Feed the People, where +food is tied to the structure. It's the most broken (properly functioning) game mechanic in Civ 6 right now.

No shame on the designers, but they need to patch this one up quick.

It´s situational OP but not broken imo.

 

[The Civs 6]

It´s situational OP but not broken imo.

It's situational in the sense that you can't always get it. It's hard for me to imagine a situation where this wouldn't be the first belief that you take if you can get it. But on Civs that get to religion fast - Russia, it isn't situational - it's an autowin.

 

[bengalryan9]

It's situational in the sense that you can't always get it. It's hard for me to imagine a situation where this wouldn't be the first belief that you take if you can get it. But on Civs that get to religion fast - Russia, it isn't situational - it's an autowin.

If I didn't have a bonus from a specific civ or have the pantheons needed to maximize it (the tundra, desert, or jungle ones) I probably wouldn't TBH. If your Holy Sites are only +2 or +3 adjacency I'd rather have Choral Music or Feed the World.

 

[The Civs 6]

If I didn't have a bonus from a specific civ or have the pantheons needed to maximize it (the tundra, desert, or jungle ones) I probably wouldn't TBH. If your Holy Sites are only +2 or +3 adjacency I'd rather have Choral Music or Feed the World.

At this point if I'm going religious victory I'm going to choose whichever of the adjacency bonus maximizer pantheons is best for my geography.

 

[borad]

Maybe even better if NOT going religious victory: don’t give anyone else the hammers, don’t waste your faith on endless religious units, and win via (say) culture by buying great people/parks/rock bands.

 

[RealHuhn]

Maybe even better if NOT going religious victory: don’t give anyone else the hammers, don’t waste your faith on endless religious units, and win via (say) culture by buying great people/parks/rock bands.

It's not really a waste anymore though. In my last game, I've converted 3-4 civs to my religion and got roughly 100 culture per turn from religious followers on a standard map. The AI usually has terrible adjacency anyway. Not a big deal to give them a few more free hammers.
Of course, spamming apostles (with Moksha preferably) does compete with the Monumentality golden age and the religious buildings. So it depends on your faith per turn.
Making rounds with Moksha, buy districts with faith and apostles with double promotion can be a good way to spend all that extra faith.

 

[Buktu]

It's not really a waste anymore though. In my last game, I've converted 3-4 civs to my religion and got roughly 100 culture per turn from religious followers on a standard map. The AI usually has terrible adjacency anyway. Not a big deal to give them a few more free hammers.
[...]

You can take World Chruch for the culture from followers (or Cross-Cultural Dialog for science if you prefer) as founder belief and still get Work Ethic as follower belief if you want to.

 

[Inhalaattori]

For Russia Feed the world is also great. It makes it possible to work those tundra tiles that give you production and faith.

 

[bengalryan9]

At this point if I'm going religious victory I'm going to choose whichever of the adjacency bonus maximizer pantheons is best for my geography.

Makes sense, but a) those pantheons tend to go rather quick on higher difficulties, and b) you still need the map generator to cooperate with you by giving you plenty of tundra, desert, or jungle. It's by no means guaranteed, and so I don't think it's the sure fire "I'll always take this first" belief some are making it out to be.

I think every time I've ever got a start where I was targeting a specific pantheon they've been gone by the time I get there.

 

[Deadly Dog]

I kinda feel like Russia is kinda pulling away from the pack on this one, in terms of it being so powerful. If you start in Tundra that is. But it just fits in Peter's toolkit so well. He's going to build lavras anyway. He's going to take Dance of the Aurora. He's going to get a prophet even if he want the artists instead. He's going to take a monumentality GA, and then maybe build Grand Master's chapel, and so run Scripture card anyway.

Poland may get a bit more mileage than your average civ with this, their HS getting nice adjacencies from other districts.

Saladin Space Victory with work ethic?

 

[The Civs 6]

Makes sense, but a) those pantheons tend to go rather quick on higher difficulties, and b) you still need the map generator to cooperate with you by giving you plenty of tundra, desert, or jungle. It's by no means guaranteed, and so I don't think it's the sure fire "I'll always take this first" belief some are making it out to be.

I think every time I've ever got a start where I was targeting a specific pantheon they've been gone by the time I get there.

I haven't seen what the AI does, but I wouldn't even bet on getting work ethic if I'm playing a Civ that isn't capable of getting whatever pantheon it so chooses. And if I'm at the point where I've sort of settled for a last religion, like I'm the Arabs or something, and work ethic is still on the table, that looks pretty good compared to the field anyway.

 

[ATEX]

I kinda feel like Russia is kinda pulling away from the pack on this one, in terms of it being so powerful. If you start in Tundra that is. But it just fits in Peter's toolkit so well. He's going to build lavras anyway. He's going to take Dance of the Aurora. He's going to get a prophet even if he want the artists instead. He's going to take a monumentality GA, and then maybe build Grand Master's chapel, and so run Scripture card anyway.

Poland may get a bit more mileage than your average civ with this, their HS getting nice adjacencies from other districts.

Saladin Space Victory with work ethic?

I agree With you on Russia. I was trying to make a case for earth godess Russia for fast SV, but I dont think it can compete With this...