either build workers, or settlers, or starve them. but the best option is, take the civ out, then their people are just as good citizens as your own people!
I don't ever really try to take another Civ's cities unless I want them all (at which point they become your Civ anyway as Templar says).
While I'm conquering them I tend to starve them down until I hit that point. Not because I'm mean and that's what Id do in real life, but because that's what the game mechanics force you to do (it reduces all the negative effects of unhappy citizens, including flipping). Because of this I have a natural urge to do the job as quick as possible to reduce my irrational unhappiness at starving imaginary pixels.
Some people prefer to do this by converting all the population to settlers or workers, but, since all the corruption means they'll likely only have 1 production per turn, I prefer just lowering them with starvation and then boosting them upon total victory.
The other option is to include settlers in your army and simply destroy the city and immediately rebuild it with a settler (or just destroy it if you're going for a conquest victory condition). Again, I feel bad doing this to the imaginary pixels, so I don't tend to do this.
iirc a town with other nationals will produce a worker that looks like a native worker. It will however be a slave. You can put them to a task and see it takes longer for the pseudo worker to complete.
I'm doing that right now in my games.
Usually I´m behind in culture, so when I take a town, I quell resistors, produce workers and then when the city is at 1 or 2, I build a granary. 2 turns from growing I buy the granary.
Didn´t realize that the new foreign worker is a ´slave´ though.
either build workers, or settlers, or starve them. but the best option is, take the civ out, then their people are just as good citizens as your own people!t_x
Presumably you're talking about the foreign civizens in the captured cities here? That's true -- they will certainly no longer resist your righteous rule (I modded my text file to make my domestic advisor say this ), or get unhappiness/ war-weariness any faster than your native civizens. But once their parent civ is out, I have a feeling that foreign civizens won't ever assimilate. You'd expect it to happen a lot faster once the home-Civ was out of the game (and no longer exerting cultural influence), but that doesn't seem to be the case -- rather the opposite, if anything. It's as if the 'foreign citizen assimilation' probability is tied to the 'risk of culture-flip' probability, so when the latter hits zero, no assimilation occurs either.
On the other hand, slave-Workers will continue to be slaves even after their parent AICiv is eliminated -- they will not suddenly acquire 'native-worker' speed. The only way I can think of to do that, would be to add the slave-Worker to one of my own (high-culture) cities, and then build a native Worker out of that extra pop-point.
does starving the people hurt your rep? Answer: no
Are you sure about this? I thought Bamspeedy said it did -- or at least, makes the AICivs more 'annoyed' at you (which is not the same as a trade-rep hit), so they'll still do 'per-turn' deals, but raise their prices...
While I'm conquering them I tend to starve them down until I hit that point. Not because I'm mean and that's what Id do in real life, but because that's what the game mechanics force you to do (it reduces all the negative effects of unhappy citizens, including flipping).
Much as I love the game, that's something that quite annoys me about CivIII. It basically forces you into war, and then even if you're successful, you have to engage in deliberate starvation, or slavery (or genocide) in order to hold what you've captured, none of which I'd class as 'civilised' behaviour
CivIII gripe no. 37:
Spoiler:
I think there should really be some kind of 'ethical' penalty (e.g. upkeep and/or happiness) for slave-holding, at the very least under Rep/Dem govs. Or -- under all gov-types -- a mechanic whereby any slaves within sight of their home-Civ's border would try to escape across it, unless guarded by a 'slavemaster' (i.e. any combat unit with A/D ≥ 1/1). Or Workers could also have hit-points, which they gradually lose while on unfriendly territory (e.g. 1 HP lost per 5 turns), and once they've lost all their points, they die. (Come to think of it, that might actually be an interesting/ realistic mechanic for all units, to represent logistical constraints -- although it would likely make RoP-abuse pretty much obligatory for late-game assaults on high-culture cities). But the Editor doesn't allow implementing anything like that, AFAIK, so all those options would require hardcoding, which no-one is ever going to do...
Because of this I have a natural urge to do the job as quick as possible to reduce my irrational unhappiness at starving imaginary pixels.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels guilty about mistreating digital people!
I am playing at Monarch atm (will move up to Emp soon), and I usually play on a 70% Continents map, and aim for a Space vic. My major, multi-turn wars tend to be late-Ind/early-Mod Age affairs under a Republic gov, aimed at clearing any last remaining AICiv(s) off my continent, to give me control of as many Lux/Strat resources as possible without having to go overseas for them. I don't like risking the loss of large numbers of units to culture-flips, so if a captured city stays in resistance longer than one turn, I'll move my units out, and just recapture it again if it flips (repeat until the city has shrunk to the point where resistance is no longer an issue). Or if I still have 4-5 obsolete units, I'll garrison them in the disordered city, while most of my modern units move on to the next target (leaving one or two stationed next to the captured city in case of a flip).
If the city is still large (Pop>6) when the resistance is quelled, I'll convert as many civizens to clowns as necessary to eliminate unhappiness, and distribute the remainder between the high-food and high-shield tiles, aiming for 0 to -1 FPT with as many SPT as possible). Even in 95% corrupt, 1-shield towns, as soon as the city is under control, I can start cash-rushing slave-Workers every 2T (1T for +1s, 1T for the rush-build), down to Pop1 (max. cost: 1s + 36g). By this point, I can usually afford to do this for every town. I usually just set the slaves to auto-clear pollution (which is often a major problem by that point, especially if I haven't (yet) managed to build Hoover Dam), or add them to my own cities (if/where I have ≥2 FPT excess), or simply sell/gift them to an AICiv (although I just learnt recently that selling slaves adversely affects AI attitudes -- not sure if gifting them also does this).
Rush-building foreign Settlers is also an option. It shrinks the city quicker (-2 pop) than building Workers, but it's a lot more expensive (max. cost: 1s + 116g), and I don't usually have any immediate use for those Settlers, because I don't generally use the 'Settler-creep' exploit -- which requires founding then abandoning/razing multiple cities -- for border-expansion during wars (and while I'm still at war, I also don't really want to add the foreign Settlers to my own cities, nor can I gift them back to their parent AICiv).
The other option is to include settlers in your army and simply destroy the city and immediately rebuild it with a settler (or just destroy it if you're going for a conquest victory condition). Again, I feel bad doing this to the imaginary pixels, so I don't tend to do this.
Not to mention the AI-attitude hit you get for razing, which can be severe if you do it too often! Obviously that's not a concern if you're aiming for a Conquest/Dom vic anyway (who needs friends?), but if you want a Space or Diplo vic, then you are going to need to maintain good relations with the other remaining Civs -- especially if they have a Lux-/Strat-res you need to trade for.
In that case, if you don't want a captured town, the best option I've heard of so far is to shrink it to Pop1 (using Worker-buys), and then let it start growing again, building and then rushing a Settler on the turn before it reaches Pop2 (food/growth is calculated before shields/production during the IBT) and abandoning the town. Because you 'had' an equal no. of foreign/native civizens in the town, it counts as yours rather than foreign, so abandoning it doesn't 'annoy' the AICivs -- and the newly-built Settler should have your Civ's nationality, so can found a new city with your nationality as well.
EDIT: The above is only partly correct -- Settler-abandoning a town at Pop1+1 will not annoy anyone, but it will also not give a native Settler, it will give a Slave-Settler. So any city founded with that Settler will have a foreign citizen as its first citizen.
iirc a town with other nationals will produce a worker that looks like a native worker. It will however be a slave.
That's a graphical glitch, which only applies during that round of play. If you save the game, and then reload it (might also have to exit and restart Civ), all the 'fake-native' slave-Workers should now have the correct 'slave-Worker' animations.
iirc a town with other nationals will produce a worker that looks like a native worker. It will however be a slave. You can put them to a task and see it takes longer for the pseudo worker to complete.
You can also right-click on the unit and it will display something like "Worker (Roman)" instead of "Worker", if you produced that worker from a former Roman town.
However, here is something very strange: if you save the game and then continue some time later, the unit's graphic is now changed from the "native worker graphic" to the "slave graphic"!!!
I assume this is one of the many bone headed bugs in C3C: when you capture an AI worker, the graphic is immediately changed to "slave". But when building a worker from a town with foreign citizens, the game only "half" recognizes that it is a slave?! You have just produced a worker yourself, so the unit gets the "usual" worker graphic for display on screen, but in all other areas (unit name, worker speed, unit upkeep cost) it acts like a slave.
Then when you save the game, the information of where the unit came from is "lost", and when the save file is loaded back in, C3C only sees that it's a slave, so it gets the "slave" graphic?!
Anyway, for me slaves are very valuable: for any two slaves I can join one native worker back into one of my core cities, so it saves 2gpt unit upkeep and at the same time makes one of my core cities stronger. This is a huge gain over time. (Or in times when I don't have enough workers -- which is "always"... -- I just keep the slave for some useful additional work, e.g improve core territory, build war roads towards the enemy to speed up a war, plant and chop forests to generate additional shields in corrupt areas, and then later build the all important railway.)
Therefore I usually avoid starving foreign population at all costs, even at Deity where I'm usually behind in culture. If the city flips, I just retake it. That way it of course takes a bit longer to get a captured city down to size 1, but I get a handful of very powerful slaves for free.
Sometimes I even have a few native workers in my army stack, which are needed for road building. Then I can just chop a forest next to the captured city and produce a slave immediately, even when that city is still full of resistors. Then size-reduction via slave-building is as fast as via starving, or even faster, as you first need to quell at least one resitor, before the city requies food. So you don't need to station units inside that city and risk to lose them in a flip...
Note: the above of course applies only to long-running games, i.e. 100K, UN, Space Race. In a quick'n'dirty Domination or Conquest game I usually don't bother. I just welcome the city as a means of lowering the unit upkeep and increasing the territory percentage, but otherwise don't pay much attention to it. (Except in the early phase, when capturing towns close by and when my core still needs improvements.)
But once their parent civ is out, I have a feeling that foreign civizens won't ever assimilate. You'd expect it to happen a lot faster once the home-Civ was out of the game (and no longer exerting cultural influence), but that doesn't seem to be the case -- rather the opposite, if anything. It's as if the 'foreign citizen assimilation' probability is tied to the 'risk of culture-flip' probability, so when the latter hits zero, no assimilation occurs either.
there is a formula somewhere here on the forum that tells you the probability in each turn that any foreign citizen will assimilate. however, once that mother civ is gone, i really do not care much.
so if i build a worker out of a captured city that come out of the native population (the city hasnt grown since i took it over) il get a worker that takes double the time of one of my workers and i would be paying them?
so if i build a worker out of a captured city that come out of the native population (the city hasnt grown since i took it over) il get a worker that takes double the time of one of my workers...
I know this has nothing to do with the thread, but every time I see this thread title I have the urge to blindly reply "you aren't building enough", because that pretty much covers all situations.
i build a lot. most of my turn im dealing with my workers. i like having a lot so than i can add them to cities when all my rails are built except the slaves.
"can never have enough workers" is one of the true catchphrases on this forum. You're not a proper poster until either someone's said that to you or you've said it to someone else.
I never have many workers early game... because unlike many forum users... I always play with raging barbarians!
I also feel a little guilty about mistreating digital citizens. I rarely use pop-rushing, a.k.a. "the whip" for that reason. When I first capture a city, I convert all the non-resisting citizens to scientists -- rather than clowns. Scientists give uncorrupted beakers, even if the rest of the town is hopelessly corrupt. But, since specialists like scientists are *always* content, I have reduced my flip risk.
Next turn, a few resistors are quelled, and I switch them to scientists, too. Repeat. Once the whole population has been assigned to specialists, it starts to shrink via starvation and I get a few more beakers per turn. I may leave the city as a size 1 town, with one scientist, until the war is over. Move the citizen to work the land, and start growing back.
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), or get unhappiness/ war-weariness any faster than your native civizens. But once their parent civ is out, I have a feeling that foreign civizens won't ever assimilate. You'd expect it to happen a lot faster once the home-Civ was out of the game (and no longer exerting cultural influence), but that doesn't seem to be the case -- rather the opposite, if anything. It's as if the 'foreign citizen assimilation' probability is tied to the 'risk of culture-flip' probability, so when the latter hits zero, no assimilation occurs either.
-- I just keep the slave for some useful additional work, e.g improve core territory, build war roads towards the enemy to speed up a war, plant and chop forests to generate additional shields in corrupt areas, and then later build the all important railway.)
