World Council: what to suggest and when?

[Merenptah]

I apologize if this has been discussed before but I couldn't find a recent thread.

The questions is, assuming you have the option, what suggestion to make for the world council and when.

For the 1st round passing World Religion would seem nice (for CV or simply to boost Tithe/World Church/Pilgrimage benefits), but you have only one Spy to use and be able to bribe other Civs (I tried to rotate him, but it doesn't work); also you will anger 4 other Civs and they'll just try and repeal next round. BTW, I noticed one strange thing, after bribing the Iroquois who had like 11 delegates, they only commited 4 delegates against repealing my religion AND at the same time had 5 delegates committed in favor of it (is this a bug or feature?); in any case it seems that the AI will just allways commit just 4 votes (instead of all of them) and use the rest as it pleases.

Science Funding/Arts Funding This seems like a good first suggestions, but you have to decide early which way to go ... BTW, I've seen both proposed and passed in not only the same game but the same WC session ...

Most success I've had with World Ideology as a 2nd suggestion (on Immortal), since I usually get Radio before 2nd round and have 1st and only ideology at that point. Little resistance there and it seems to stick (more so than religion). But maybe it's not the best choice and I wonder if it increases hate from Civs of other Ideologies ...

World Fair is a tricky one .... AI likes to suggest that (too) early, should I vote against it? Diplo hit for voting against seems pretty steep though ... and given choice, when is it best to have World Fair passed? 2nd or 3rd round?

International Games: after Internet if going for a CV seems like the obvious choice; if not, should one even participate and invest hammers for a free SP?

International Space Station: I can't understand how and when this is useful ... one GS when you just bulbed two from Hubble and are building parts -> no point ... for Domination, you should build units, and CV/Diplo have no use for this ...

 

[DarthSheldonPhD]

Historical Landmarks is always an ASAP proposal; it get's you a bunch of culture and always (at least, every game I've played) makes the majority of the AI happy, and has no detrimental diplomatic effect on the remainder. Only trouble with this one is that archeology isn't on the standard tech path until after plastics, which means it's only available as 2nd or 3rd round choice.

Natural Heritage is good as a first round proposal for games that, ironically, aren't
heading towards a culture victory (for CV, world religion is usually first.) Never upsets anybody and might give you a slight culture boost.

Cultural Heritage is good for not only low level games, but domination games as well. You intend to take everyone's capital which means 1.) the diplomatic hit is more-or-less irrelevant as you'll be at war with everyone sooner or later anyway, and 2.) Conquering AI capitals will give you plenty (eventually all) of the world wonders, meaning you'll enjoy the full potential of the proposal.

While I've only been able to pull off this feat twice on immortal and never on diety, if you can propose world religion before any other civ founds a religion, you'll suffer no diplomatic penalty and enjoy the benefits all game (provided you can beat the repeals...)

 

[Carazycool]

when everyone only has 1 or 2 delegates, I find it impossible to pass things like world religion because usually everyone else is opposed to it. I usually start with something that everyone will like, such as World's Fair, just to score some positive diplomacy modifiers. If there is a world pariah, Embargoing them sometimes scores some good points with a few other nations. Then later when and if I have a large chunk of delegates, I will propose World Religion or World Ideology.

 

[joncnunn]

For Cultural victory, in order:

1. Arts Funding. (Increase spawn rate of guild specalists) I normally find 6 AI like it and 1 hates it on standard map size.

2. Worlds Fair. (Double culture for 30 turns). Usually loved by all

3. Olympic Games (Double tourism for 30 turns). Also loved by all

Also in all three cases you normally don't need to vote for it at all to get it to pass so you can use your votes voting down some random AI proposal that would be bad for you.

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For diplomatic victory the only one you'll want is World Ideology.
(The world religion one will go down in flames anyway so there is no point in proposing it unless you want 4 or 5 AIs to denounce you.)

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For science victory, you really don't care. There is no point in proposing science funding, it will go down in flames and also cause 6 AIs to denounce you.

 

[joncnunn]

Historical Landmarks is always an ASAP proposal; it get's you a bunch of culture and always (at least, every game I've played) makes the majority of the AI happy, and has no detrimental diplomatic effect on the remainder. Only trouble with this one is that archeology isn't on the standard tech path until after plastics, which means it's only available as 2nd or 3rd round choice.

Natural Heritage is good as a first round proposal for games that, ironically, aren't
heading towards a culture victory (for CV, world religion is usually first.) Never upsets anybody and might give you a slight culture boost.

Cultural Heritage is good for not only low level games, but domination games as well. You intend to take everyone's capital which means 1.) the diplomatic hit is more-or-less irrelevant as you'll be at war with everyone sooner or later anyway, and 2.) Conquering AI capitals will give you plenty (eventually all) of the world wonders, meaning you'll enjoy the full potential of the proposal.

Historical Landmarks: I find that upsets every AI that doesn't yet have at least 1 of them set up in their territory.

National Heritage: Never upsets anyone, but I find that AIs without natural wonders in their territory will block vote against it, which can make it difficult to pass unless someone else with a lot of votes also has a natural wonder in their territory.

Cultural Heritage: I find that upsets every AI that hasn't yet built at least 2 world wonders.

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

BTW, I noticed one strange thing, after bribing the Iroquois who had like 11 delegates, they only commited 4 delegates against repealing my religion AND at the same time had 5 delegates committed in favor of it (is this a bug or feature?); in any case it seems that the AI will just allways commit just 4 votes (instead of all of them) and use the rest as it pleases.

That's WAD. World Council votes only trades 4 delegates. You can try selling your own delegate and see that you can still vote if you have more than 4. You'll also notice that you can initiate trade if AI diplomat is in your cap (actually the AI never initiates one themselves). Having gold for a proposal you're going to vote to or against anyway is a nice source of extra income.

Anyway, for World Council, my favorite for the first round (assuming I get to choose) is arts funding. I try not to propose the international projects myself because the AI could then propose the others, wasting it. Besides, at this point there's always something on the build list to not rush the projects.

 

[KmDubya]

I like World's fair for a first round pick. It makes everyone happy and you have a good chance of winning. Especially in a game where you will not have enough city state allies to dominate the council. In a case like that at least you got something good out of the council before it ends up being the ban every luxury in the world council.

If you do have enough city state allies to do whatever you want I like to follow up World's Fair with World Religion and then World Ideology. This works great in domination games where everyone hates you except for maybe one war buddy but they can't do anything about it.

 

[darkpigraph]

I personally go world's fair first, if i founded WC. Everyone likes it and it comes at a good time for me to win it - my other cities can build it while my cap finishes hermitage, and there are not many essential buildings until public schools and factories). Secondly arts funding or naturaal heritage sites depending on my needs - it won't really offend anyone.

I try and save the contentious ones until modern era or after when i typically have enough votes to pass them against all opposition. And by that stage diplomacy is generally messed up by default anyway so i don't care who i offend.

I really hate the fact that after the fall patch the AI unanimously seems to hate historical landmarks, even if they have academies and manufactories (i think their stance may depend on landmarks and they typically hit archaeology much later than me) - before the fall patch it was a freebie!

 

[ravenmagus]

If you can get Radio fast enough and propose World Ideology before there's too many other Ideologies to oppose it, it's usually an easy vote. Good for just about any VC, too; it does a great job of protecting your ideology when you're not going CV, and it crushes the happiness of other civs when you are (plus helps set up for same-ideology bonuses).

 

[neilkaz]

If you can get Radio fast enough and propose World Ideology before there's too many other Ideologies to oppose it, it's usually an easy vote. Good for just about any VC, too; it does a great job of protecting your ideology when you're not going CV, and it crushes the happiness of other civs when you are (plus helps set up for same-ideology bonuses).

Yes, I've been able to do this as Babylon playing Immortal a couple times when I am very fast to Radio. I doubt this would work on Deity as others are lots faster.

Still you want to have a decent number of votes. Note that if another civ votes for it is as well, they will adopt your ideology later, from my experience.

 

[ravenmagus]

Yes, I've been able to do this as Babylon playing Immortal a couple times when I am very fast to Radio. I doubt this would work on Deity as others are lots faster.

Still you want to have a decent number of votes. Note that if another civ votes for it is as well, they will adopt your ideology later, from my experience.

On deity I find that the second WC vote is usually too slow to make that easy, but sometimes it will align right (a fast WC on Pangaea or a very slow WC on not-Pangaea). If you have the Ideology and manage to propose it, you can secure votes very easily with diplomats from civs that don't have an Ideology yet, even if they're planning something different.

 

[Enonwnn]

I usually go for the cultural modifiers first, mainly because everyone is usually in favour of them.

As soon as I hit Industrial Era, I'll start trying to get my religion as world religion (there's no point trying earlier, you need those city state votes to cancel out everyone else's objections). I then aim for World's Fair just as Modern Era/3 Factories hit. By this point, I'll have extra culture from Great Improvements and Wonders which will be enhanced, and I'll have chosen an ideology - World's Fair will get me to those tasty level 3's much sooner. This is then followed by getting my chosen ideology as world ideology, unless my "ideological allies" and I are outnumbered in votes.

Depending on victory condition, I'll either aim for International Games around the time of Airports, or International Space Station ASAP.


Of course, there are factors that could change this approach most games. If there's a clear, disliked runaway, setting an embargo on them may become a choice - this is usually chosen by the other civ vote choice, so I personally rarely do this.

If another civ has snagged many more wonders than I have managed, I'll avoid going for the wonder culture boost, and likewise with Great Improvements.

I also avoid the Science/Culture Great people (+/-33%) boosts as I tend to go for a balance between great people. For Science victories, you still need culture to keep enemy tourism/ideologies away, and for Culture victories, you still need to tech your way to hotels/airports ASAP.

 

[AngryGorilla]

Why would you suggest cultural modifiers if you want a cultural victory? Isnt that counterintuitive?

 

[Novalia]

world's fair first, ideology second.. religion is nearly impossible to pass first or second round,, you need the CS allies to kick in to pass that.. its only really important in a diplo victory anyway.. science is good for third round pick.. i like it in that it comes in at a nice time and tends to piss everybody off at a time when i could stomp them if they even blink at me funny... on immortal that is.