World History Mod development thread

[Krug]

My Argument for the Sioux...


Ok, so while not a true Kingdom, the Sioux were by far the most infulental tribe in the Plains wars, when you think of the "Indian" in cowboys and indians, you're most likely thinking about the Sioux. I just don't think its right to remove a culture with so much Infulence in American history. This argument could also be used to keep the Apache and Navajo in (which is another thing I'd like), however it's a really hard pill to swallow when you say you're taking the Sioux out.

In this mod I'd like to see as many nations as we can fit. So personally I'd like to keep all four of those nations in.

Another think that irks me is the (Unplayable?) next to the olmecs. I don't think this is right either, the Olmecs are an important land mark as basically being the First Kingdom in the Americas, Period.

As for Religions, I liked the idea of any Religion that had spread to at least Two or more nations being put in.

Now on to the remainder of the Native civs (Still, I won't do the 3 other civs you said you were taking out, until a firm verdict is reached.):

This is mostly Just Clairification Work

Zapotec UP should add an Extra 20% Gold to begin with.

New Huron UHV1:Surround Great Lakes and secure at least 3 Seafood Resources by 1492 AD. Yeah I meant Until for Huron UHV3.

For Shawnees, I mean total elimination. So Eliminate Works for UHV2.

What happened to the other Two Creek UHVs? were they forgotten, or is there something wrong with them?

Sioux...I guess Tribal Democracy.


MIXTEC EMPIRE
Leader: Jaguar Claw
Personality: Aggressive, Expansive,
UU1: Eagle Warrior
UU2: Jaguar Warrior (Mixtecs went on the same system as the Aztecs in warfare, so either both give them the same UUs or Give one Jaguar and One Eagle.)
UB1: Pueblo Blacksmith (Forge with no Sickness)
UP1: Power of MetalWorks (Units Requiring Copper have a reduced build time by 25%)
UHV1: No outside influences until a. 1300 A.D.
UHV2: Eliminate the Aztec Empire by 1500 A.D.
UHV3: Survive until 1650 A.D.
Government Type: Tribal
Preferred Civics: Aristocracy, Decentralization, Mercantillism, Serfdom
Preferred Religion: Toltec Faith
Tech Group: Mesoamerican
Art Group: Mesoamerican
Culture: Mixtec
Unit Group: Aztec
Rating: 2/1/1 [?]

Tribal Monarchy for the Arawak

Olmec UHVs and Stuff:
Control At least 5 Stone Resources by 500 B.C.
Control all of Mexico by 0 A.D.
Survive until 1000 A.D.

Preferred Civics: Aristocracy, Decentralization, (Free Subjects)
Preferred Religion: Shamanism

Toltec Goverment I think should be Tribal Monarchy
Prefered Civics: Aristocracy, Decentralization, Mercantillism, Serfdom
Culture: Toltec? (It can't be Aztec because Aztec Culture would never have spawned without the Toltecs)

CHIMU EMPIRE
Leader: Minchancaman
Personality: Protective, Traditional, Seclusive
UU1: Si Spearman (Si means Moon in Chimu)(Very Powerful Spearman, but can only be built in Cities with the State Religion)
UU2: Bolas Warrior (Replaces Sling (If we have those, if not, replaces Archer) 15% percent chance of Collateral Damage to the enemy Unit After Battle)
UB1: Ni Temple (Dock that adds +2 Health)
UP1: ?
UHV1: Largest Army and Largest Cultural Borders in South America by 1200 A.D.
UHV2: Eliminate the Incan Empire by 1400 A.D.
UHV3: Survive until 1650 A.D.
Government Type: Tribal
Preferred Civics: Aristocracy, Decentralization, Mercantillism, Serfdom
Preferred Religion: Shamanism
Tech Group: South American Native?
Art Group: South American Native?
Culture: Chimu? Incan?
Unit Group: Incan
Rating: 2/1/1 [?]

 

[kevinman4404]

@Gooblah: it's ok, I'll do the code. I saw you edit that out. I am getting better at python, and this will only help me. Yes, I think the formula will work now.

@Krug: I think they were forgotten. Usually (I hope) I leave a comment in the main forum if I can't accept something. Anyways I'll edit it tonight or tommorow.

I am keeping Sioux; now that I think of it that is why I had a bison resource in the first place. It would have represented regardless (just unplayable), but my guess is you and others would rather be able to play it.

Navajo and Apache I strongly reccomend just being represented by minor/independent native civs (I don't know exactly how non-playable native civs will work yet), and if they're included, something would be needed to distinguish them from kingdoms-ish like Creek, Cherokee, Iroquois, Huron, Shawnee, a) to avoid redundancy and b) because these are totally different seeing as they are only chiefdoms

I am not yet closed on my list of religions- I still have to take a look at the schisms mod, and I want everyone to reach a sort of consensus. So this is still very open.

The only reason I made Olmecs unplayable was because they would be there, for a LOT of turns (1000 turns?) without any other civ anywhere near it. They are there only for a brief period of time with the Mayas, whom they warred with. What do you think should be done/why?

I'll admit I don't have a lot of file-work done; moreso the most progress has been made on the artistic front; that, as well as getting the engine working, compiling and updating all information (an enormous task), organizing, and some work on fundamental basics, such as getting a system going to create settler maps, enhancing my map with coding, etc.

Most of my file-work will only start when all information is gathered and set. However, it will likely start appearing continent by continent, which will mean it will get into your mod faster. I will send some stuff I have in the meantime (soon).

And thanks for the clarifications! You have been very thorough so far. If it starts getting overwhelming, just take your time. I'd rather a simple supporter than noone (if just to convince me that this forum isn't dying )


Also, should mound be based off walls? of all the many buildings i might include in the mod?

~~~

My fiddling with leaderheads did not go as well as I would have liked. I am going to have to reassess what I am capable of doing with them.

Next to units on my list (for me to make art for): Alg. Tomahawk charge, Iroquois Rifle Scout.

~~~

Happy 500th post (in this thread), Gooblah! This will, guaranteed, someday be the longest thread in the forum; this is going to be a long but rewarding project

 

[Grishnash]

I've done some updating to my list
How are things coming along with mod?

What mainmenu background are you using?
Here are three kinda nice ones

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[EviltheMonkey]

Wow Grishnash! Did you make those? They look great!
If I had to choose I'd go for the 3rd one myself.

 

[Angst]

The last one is extremely epic. Use that.

 

[Grishnash]

Thanks Just something I threw together while I had a free minute

Edit: Kevin, how big is Madagascar on your map?

 

[kevinman4404]

lol my post disappeared... or maybe i didn't hit submit and the computer auto-updated I'm not sure

Fantastic backgrounds, I think you are hiding some great graphic skills! I will leave background submission open, but I will insert one so that there's a spiffy background before testing. I think the 3rd one wins, no contest. It's easily the most epic.

Here's the outline of Madagascar, Comoros (blown up to a useable size; I may reduce it to the two most important islands), Seychelles, Mauritius, Reunion

@Krug: Sorry, I forgot those two UHVs. They are in now. I have updated the civs list. At some point I will update UUs and UBs.

Your copper UP may not work as I don't think any mesoamerican unit requires copper atm. Mostly stone, flint.

The Bolas Warrior may also pose a problem unless I can figure out how to successfully animate, or find artwork elsewhere. I have melee bolas (rocks bound to a handle) but nothing attached to a rope and nothing ranged, which would be difficult. But if I can make it, I will.

And fantastic work at finding stuff for the chimu!

 

[Retrospect]

Wow what a project. I wish you all the best and hope to be testing it sometime in the future

 

[Krug]

New Stuff

I was scrolling down the list of Civs today, mostly to get to the Flags for each of the nations, which I will be using for my 1st Modpack. However, I noticed something,

China, as only one huge Civ.

Now I'm not suggesting we split it up into each dynasty, that would be too much, but, there are several "Splitting Points" in the history of China (Much like Russia, but with more than one), where the basics of the Civ totally changed.

Example, the Transition from Imperialistic, to Nationalistic, and then later, Communism. What I'm saying is this, Split China into these Civs:

Imperial China
Nationalist China
Communist China


Next Question, this is concerning Both Mods mine and this, will we be using Varietas Delectat art for those already done in that (such as the Incas), or will we be making our own unique art?

 

[kevinman4404]

Now I'm not suggesting we split it up into each dynasty, that would be too much, but, there are several "Splitting Points" in the history of China (Much like Russia, but with more than one), where the basics of the Civ totally changed.

My concern is that, did, even in these time periods, China ever have political uniformality? They were pretty much always at war weren't they?

It'll be either that or each important dynasty.

Next Question, this is concerning Both Mods mine and this, will we be using Varietas Delectat art for those already done in that (such as the Incas), or will we be making our own unique art?

Excellent question although I borrow from a TON of people, it will have a lot of unique art. I'd estimate 2/3 of Aztec, Maya and Inca unit art packs were edited to my liking (head, body, weapon, armour swaps and custom models and skins). I have quite a realistic set of units right now, in terms of the weapons and armour they use.

@Grishnash: do you have a slightly bigger version of your 3rd background?

 

[Grishnash]

Sure, how much bigger do you want?

 

[kevinman4404]

enough to fit a 19" monitor (fully) would be fantastic! For people with bigger monitors, they'll just have to live, but I'll take the biggest full-resolution you have

 

[Grishnash]

Alright, here you go, I hope it's the right size

Spoiler :

 

[GeneralSpecific]

Kev, I'm nearing a breakthrough in the government civic situation to allow for the said government forms (EU3?)...just to remind you that I haven't just blown it all off!

 

[Angst]

Grishnash: Remember widescreens

 

[Grishnash]

<,<
>,>

I just don't know how big to make it

 

[kevinman4404]

@GeneralSpecific- your help is hugely appreciated; I'll comment about civics in next post
@Grishnash- I don't think, as far as I know, we can account for widescreens. I have no clue how that would work.

A little bigger would be fine. I can't give a number. Maybe the number I'm looking for is the resolution for my desktop: 1280 x 1024 (?) I could be wrong though

And do you have it in bmp? png? or just jpeg? (originally)

 

[Gooblah]

Hmmz...so about Civics, are you going with GeneralSpecific's ideas, or some of mine, or combining them? I can go anyway, whatever is your choice.

 

[Grishnash]

Spoiler :

'Ere you go. I've resized and converted it.

 

[kevinman4404]

Thanks Grishnash, the size is perfect EDIT: I tested it out, and some of it is being cut off. I will get to the bottom of this! Either there's some size issue I didn't factor in or there is a problem with the .nif I borrowed from FFH (a rectangle where you stick the background on)

@Gooblah, what do you mean? Are you just talking about leadership civics or all civics in general? Caz everythings open to suggestions from anyone; as for what we're gonna do for leadership civics, I don't know yet

we should probably get deciding on that... im gonna review what we've come up with so far and see where we stand

@anyone, if you know how widescreen images work for civ4 (if they do), please let me know