Worst culture for any era.

[PSG]

Final era Egyptians are by far the worst culture. It was like hitting an "I lose" button.

 

[Taefin]

Final era Egyptians are by far the worst culture. It was like hitting an "I lose" button.

Oh excellent controversial thread!

I disagree. I think the contemporary Egyptians have a very specific role, to produce loads of influence in large cities to attain the 3 influence stars of the last era. This extra influence can be used to combine cities (and unlock civics) and this accelerates influence production toward these stars. For this specific use, at which they excel, I believe they are a very well designed contemporary culture.

I don’t play to contemporary often (why keep playing when you have a fame lead?) but one time I did I selected Egyptians. I had a 3k fame deficit, but good food, industry and gold yields and had defeated the fame leader in a decisive war. However, my influence yield was weak and I needed every last star I could get. Egyptians fit this need perfectly and helped me pull ahead and win by 150 fame when the game ended by pollution (pre latest patch).

Sure, if you are ahead on fame, Egypt won’t help you finish the game more quickly, since the only time you’d try to get all 21 era stars is when going for an all-era-stars game in which case you need to have good influence earlier. But they do very well at earning these stars, for the fame, if you do not.

 

[DrCron]

Ok, here's my opinion (probably wrong about some of them, I need to try more combinations yet):

- Ancient: Hittites.
- Classical: Romans or Goth, can't decide.
- Medieval: Teutons? I haven't played them yet because their ED looks terrible (plus expansionist stars are usually hard to get).
- Early modern: Spanish? Again, haven't played them. EDs that provide faith look like complete garbage. Ottomans look like a strong contender too.
- Industrial: British. At least until they fix the vassal mechanic to make it cheaper and more appealing to be a liege.
- Contemporary: Indian. Again, an ED that gives faith, which is even MORE useless in the late game. Sorry OP but the archaelogical dig is not so bad as the Ashram.

I always get all the faith that I need for the 4 bonuses with maybe 1-2 obelisks and whichever wonder I can get. Until faith can be used for something else, cultures that get more of it will just be weaker than the rest.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

If you get Ankgor Wat Faith Cultures are great (assuming you get a per pop EQ as well in some era)

 

[Cherenkov]

Goth is just a terrible civ. I hope they rework them someday.

I did British for the first time in my "take over the world game". I've had enough science wins so this time I'm only stopping when everyone is wiped from the map. So expansionist Britain works well here with the flow of money to support my huge army and being able to trespass. The LT is really nice and Redcoats are extremely powerful Line Infantry but yea the Liege thing is lame and in my case worthless since I'm not vassalizing anyone. For any other win I'd leave them behind.

 

[DrCron]

If you get Ankgor Wat Faith Cultures are great (assuming you get a per pop EQ as well in some era)

Sure, but you can't base your whole game on getting one specific wonder. On high difficulties it's unlikely you can pick the the specific medieval wonder you need. It's way safer to just get an agrarian culture if you want food so badly. Which you probably won't anyway, at least not by the time you get Angkor.

 

[reddishrecue]

Imho the American civilization in CE is kind of bad in a way. Don't get me wrong, I like the UU plane but I can't even use it because game ends by that time and using the UB also is kind of useless in a way. CE is such a great era. Its too bad I haven't been able to be in CE with the other AIs and fighting in the CE era instead of the earlier eras, then American troops can get that extra from the UB when going to war in CE with other folks in CE.

 

[Cakeathon]

I get Angkor Wat a lot without even trying and I mostly play huge maps on hk diff. Seems to be really low on the AI priority but maybe different AIs have different priorities, I haven't downloaded that many so it's mostly the default ones. However, while I'm willing to see maths that prove me wrong, I don't think going for even more food in contemporary is a very mathematically sound strategy even with angkor wat + machu pichu combo so I'd rate india pretty low.

Goths are just so terrible, the only thing they have going for them is countered by like half the EUs in the era. Just in general, almost every culture with a melee cavalry EU has for some reason really bad LT/EQ.

It's like the dev think it's a privilege to have a melee cav as EU so they have to tone down the other bonuses even though they are actually probably the worst kind of units. And to make matters worse, their attack power is lower than the ranged mounted EU of the same era, most of which are from civs with absolutely broken LT/EQ.

 

[Siptah]

Hittites
Goths/Huns
Mongols
Edo Japanese/Poles
British
Americans/Indians

 

[DrCron]

I get Angkor Wat a lot without even trying and I mostly play huge maps on hk diff. Seems to be really low on the AI priority but maybe different AIs have different priorities, I haven't downloaded that many so it's mostly the default ones. However, while I'm willing to see maths that prove me wrong, I don't think going for even more food in contemporary is a very mathematically sound strategy even with angkor wat + machu pichu combo so I'd rate india pretty low.

True, even with Angkor you just don't want a bunch of food in the last 10-20 turns of the game. I hope they do more things with faith in the future, right now it's a bit underwhelming.

 

[Siptah]

Faith is already in a much better spot with the current patch. It plays it role even in the Early Modern era, which is fine. Then it gets next to useless towards the end of the game. That‘s a good base. I hope faith/religion get a bit more attention at some point, but I also hope it stays a very abstracted mechanic, and a currency that‘s not a bucket to fill but keeps its very dynamic nature.

I’d encourage people that don‘t play Teutons, Spanish or Ottomans to give them a try. Neither of them is the strongest culture, but they aren‘t weak at all. And they are also three very fun cultures to play around with as they are very thematic. They all have good to very good units, good LTs, and their faith producing EQs are really good in that with gives you a ton of demands on your neighbors. Makes wars in which you take 10 territories off of someone else not uncommon.

 

[Don Andre]

Good / Bad, let's call it easy / challenging instead ;-)

 

[Taefin]

It's like the dev think it's a privilege to have a melee cav as EU so they have to tone down the other bonuses even though they are actually probably the worst kind of units. And to make matters worse, their attack power is lower than the ranged mounted EU of the same era, most of which are from civs with absolutely broken LT/EQ.

I agree there seems to be some misalignment of dev expectations and actual gameplay here. Admittedly Hittite and Teuton EU can hit substantially above their strength when using their abilities (and charge is helpful).

I’m guessing they kept buffing ranged cav EU until they started consistently doing more than minimum damage, and since they will almost always be firing with LoS penalty, that strength will be pretty high.

I’d encourage people that don‘t play Teutons, Spanish or Ottomans to give them a try.

Totally agree here, in most of my games there is opportunity to clinch religion in medieval/early modern and these cultures do it better than anyone. However, even in games where religion is not an issue, Spanish and Ottomans are a fun way to decide the game, since a move-and-shoot EU at gunpowder with higher strength is unstoppable. Teutons are great if you have a different religion than your main rivals, as the knights gain so much strength.

 

[7daysofwar]

Phoenicians/Hittites, I haven't play the hittites yet but they feel not that strong but I played the phoenicians and I think having their EQ so late makes them definitely weaker then the other cultures in the Ancient era
Huns, Maybe I play them wrong with them but I feel like you can bully people with them but they won't get closer to victory themselfs, I have trouble getting other stars then the millitary stars with them.
Mongols, see above ^.
Edo Japanese, It feels like a worse version of the Ming, also having an EQ that has almost an indentical bonus to a EQ three eras earlier doesn't feel right (the 5 influence from mountains, the Zhou have an EQ with 5 science from mountains).
Mexicans, at this point in the game, I feel like you barely need extra food because all of my cities are already growing fast and since they only give more food, they don't feel that strong compared to the others.
Brazilians, see above ^.

I agree with people that faith quarters are stronger now since you are the religious leader of every after you build your first holy site.

 

[Taefin]

Hittites
Goths/Huns
Mongols
Edo Japanese/Poles
British
Americans/Indians

Generally agree, though I think Hittites have a place. And Hittite > Huns are a great way to decide the game militarily before you build a single EQ. The combo between their EU and LT turns an army of both EU into a dominant classical force. Admittedly I didn’t face Greeks or Persians in that game, but I found I got stars fast enough to then turn my massive territories into large productive cities before long.

America and India break my rule of offering something useful for CE era stars. America is designed to fit into a game that simply does not exist, as it’s seems like mostly just a chance to RP red dawn in a PVP game.

British seem stuck back in open dev when having vassals was so strong. But a stronger line infantry wins games (cf Italians).

Poles wouldn’t be nearly so bad if any combat in this era occurred outside of city walls, but it doesn’t. This might therefore save the Mongols for the EU upgrade, but it doesn’t.

Edo Japanese have an exceptional and flavorful EU that is well timed at the beginning of EM and much more aggressive than the Ming’s, while giving a smaller influence boost that is immediate (plus a handful of EQ if spots exist). The Ming EQ is quite the investment to put everywhere.

Mexicans > Chinese is very powerful, providing all the extra workers for their EQ. When picking Mexicans, you aren’t just doing it for the food, you’re doing it for a [Winnebago]-load of food!

Therefore my list pick for two worst cultures would be Americans and Poles. They aren’t good, but they also aren’t fun. Poles would be much improved if you could edit the size of territories (eg have a huge map with the # territories and players as a regular map).

 

[Cherenkov]

Faith is already in a much better spot with the current patch. It plays it role even in the Early Modern era, which is fine. Then it gets next to useless towards the end of the game. That‘s a good base. I hope faith/religion get a bit more attention at some point, but I also hope it stays a very abstracted mechanic, and a currency that‘s not a bucket to fill but keeps its very dynamic nature.

I’d encourage people that don‘t play Teutons, Spanish or Ottomans to give them a try. Neither of them is the strongest culture, but they aren‘t weak at all. And they are also three very fun cultures to play around with as they are very thematic. They all have good to very good units, good LTs, and their faith producing EQs are really good in that with gives you a ton of demands on your neighbors. Makes wars in which you take 10 territories off of someone else not uncommon.

Thanks for mentioning this. I finally got out of my comfort zone and tried out Teutons and Ottomans and had the best science game yet. Mars Colony built at T188 with a 3k fame lead on HK difficulty so would be a T190 win without the bug. Ottomans were a real joy especially with the Janissary and I only had to wait a few turns for Gunpowder. Having that move-and-shoot available at that time is just amazing. I just kept expanding and those units kept me going until I needed AA to take the last oil city since Kerma surprised me with several Line Infantry.

Didn't go Egypt either I went Olmecs->Greece->Teutons->Ottomans->French->Aussie. I got off to an incredible start with the Olmecs but got a bit greedy and lost two cities to the Huns, but got those back with Hoplites. I still can't figure out a way around the French->Aussie combo for fastest way to Mars Colony but at least I didn't use Egypt or Khmer. That was a really fun game. Just wish they'd fix the damn Red Planet bug already

 

[PSG]

The Egyptians are bad because previous era cultures have better influence bonuses and the Americans? They might actually be worse than the Egyptians. I picked the Americans in a game yesterday just so I could get a win playing them. I reloaded after 2 turns because it was going to cause me to lose. ...

Brazil is amazing btw. Mashing the population steal button in the final era is crazy 16+ population so what if I piss off my neighbors.

 

[Taefin]

The Egyptians are bad because previous era cultures have better influence bonuses and the Americans?

Probably need some different standards of good and bad. If putting together an optimal series of cultures, then edit likely doesn’t have a role. But if viewing the game as more improvisational (by giving the AI enough advantages to get first pick of cultures and a fame lead) then cultures with a clear role and who are fun to play get decently high marks in my book. But glad Americans are universally reviled.