WOTM 03 - Final Spoiler
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WOTM 03 - Final Spoiler
- Thread starter Gyathaar
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Nice map, I hope next GOTM will provide more challenge 
Goodenuf
Warlord
Erkon said:Nice map, I hope next GOTM will provide more challenge
Ya, when do the real maps come out?
Gyathaar said:
Submission is absolutely accurate here.
Not many details since I'm at work right now but in short:
I was way behind at 500AD, and that never changed at all. The only reason I survived as long as I did is that Egypt (waaay out in front) was very friendly with me, and pretty much attacked anyone that came after me.
Finally, in the 1700s, I had Shaka break through the resistance with hordes of cavalry, and cleaned out my longbow protected cities with incredible efficiency. This surprised me a bit since the cities all had Duns and the longbows had at least Garrison I and (for cities on hills) Guerilla I defence. This would boost them to... what a 10 or more? I suppose against upgraded cavalry this doesn't match up well anyway, but I didn't win a single battle defending against cavalry, unless the cavalry was way down in health.
In any case... it was a fun, yet humbling adventure this time around.
I replayed the map a few times since, and the best success was to move the initial settler immediately to the mouth of the river to grab the gems and fish (and eventually copper). Doing this and getting Fishing then beelining to IW to chop jungle and get the UU; from there its at least competitive, although I'll likely finish in the middle of the pack rather than thousands of points behind 7th place
Dill
Chieftain
Defeat, again...
I got conned by the Romans in 1040AD - I was preparing to take on the Vikings, building up an amphibious assult with galleys and Gallic warriors... eyeing off the Iron city.... I thought I'd attack in about another 10 turns when my force was large enough to take on his few longbowmen, when Ceasear asks if I'd join him in attacking Ragnar, who he'd been at war with for a short while.
It sounded good - puts me on the Romans good side, and I can let the Romans take the brunt of Ragnars forces while I claim my iron....
As soon as I declared war, I found out that the Romans had declared peace! So, I'm now left with an angry Ragnar who has iron and horses - read knights!
After a few attempts to take the city failing, and his defences growing, I decide that a retreat is in order....
I lose a few warriors during my retreat - leaving me very short defensively in my homeland...
Ragnar refuses to talk to me and assembles his forces to wipe me out...
I make a beeline to the gunpowder units, but its to no avail - Not only is Ragnar p'd off, but that Spanish b%^ch decides nows a good time to stick the knife in. I start pumping out musketmen as soon as I can, but they're no match to Viking cavalry, and later infantry and Spanish grenadiers. Down to 2 citys in 1762.
I get a brief reprieve in 1780 as the Spanish are wiped out by someone...
No-one want's to help me, and the lack of tech advance shows as slowly I'm being overrun....
I manage to squeeze out one more city away from the fighting, while continually trying to end the war with Ragnar.
Finally I have peace in 1865, but it doesn't even last to the end of the turn as Korea decides to pick over my carcass with tanks and marines..
With all hope lost, my most reasonable ally the Egyptians decide to get in while the getting is good, and their mech infantry is too much for my final defending force - a catapult and longbowman defending my capital.
Game over 1880AD.
Well, much better effort than last months game... in what seems to have been a very hard game.
I don't think I'm playing bad, just not getting the breaks I guess.
Dispite how hard this game has been, I've enjoyed it. I was astounded by the Roman double cross - I may have had a better chance on Ragnar with a bit more prep.
I've tried this save again a few times - my 5th attempt is going OK - I managed to flip Ragnars iron city - putting me in a good spot so far... Hindsite is a wonderful thing!
Looking forward to next months game!
I got conned by the Romans in 1040AD - I was preparing to take on the Vikings, building up an amphibious assult with galleys and Gallic warriors... eyeing off the Iron city.... I thought I'd attack in about another 10 turns when my force was large enough to take on his few longbowmen, when Ceasear asks if I'd join him in attacking Ragnar, who he'd been at war with for a short while.
It sounded good - puts me on the Romans good side, and I can let the Romans take the brunt of Ragnars forces while I claim my iron....
As soon as I declared war, I found out that the Romans had declared peace! So, I'm now left with an angry Ragnar who has iron and horses - read knights!
After a few attempts to take the city failing, and his defences growing, I decide that a retreat is in order....
I lose a few warriors during my retreat - leaving me very short defensively in my homeland...
Ragnar refuses to talk to me and assembles his forces to wipe me out...
I make a beeline to the gunpowder units, but its to no avail - Not only is Ragnar p'd off, but that Spanish b%^ch decides nows a good time to stick the knife in. I start pumping out musketmen as soon as I can, but they're no match to Viking cavalry, and later infantry and Spanish grenadiers. Down to 2 citys in 1762.
I get a brief reprieve in 1780 as the Spanish are wiped out by someone...
No-one want's to help me, and the lack of tech advance shows as slowly I'm being overrun....
I manage to squeeze out one more city away from the fighting, while continually trying to end the war with Ragnar.
Finally I have peace in 1865, but it doesn't even last to the end of the turn as Korea decides to pick over my carcass with tanks and marines..
With all hope lost, my most reasonable ally the Egyptians decide to get in while the getting is good, and their mech infantry is too much for my final defending force - a catapult and longbowman defending my capital.
Game over 1880AD.
Well, much better effort than last months game... in what seems to have been a very hard game.
I don't think I'm playing bad, just not getting the breaks I guess.
Dispite how hard this game has been, I've enjoyed it. I was astounded by the Roman double cross - I may have had a better chance on Ragnar with a bit more prep.
I've tried this save again a few times - my 5th attempt is going OK - I managed to flip Ragnars iron city - putting me in a good spot so far... Hindsite is a wonderful thing!
Looking forward to next months game!
(Base score 1223, Final 1711)
The Cyrus and Egypt Wars
The Peaceful Years
Eeeeeeek! The End is Nigh….! World War I Begins
OK. Perhaps the End wasn't Nigh after all.
World War II (luckily bypasses Celtia)
The End is Nigh (No, really, this time)
PostScript: The Most Exciting Town Award
(Edit: Correcting a couple of stats)
Spoiler :
The Cyrus and Egypt Wars
Spoiler :
The Peaceful Years
Spoiler :
Eeeeeeek! The End is Nigh….! World War I Begins
Spoiler :
OK. Perhaps the End wasn't Nigh after all.
Spoiler :
World War II (luckily bypasses Celtia)
Spoiler :
The End is Nigh (No, really, this time)
Spoiler :
PostScript: The Most Exciting Town Award
Spoiler :
(Edit: Correcting a couple of stats)
Dill
Chieftain
DynamicSpirit:
A very entertaining read!
There must be something about Koreans and their nukes... perhaps the game designers built it in.
It took me a few moments to figure your reference to a former Soviet spy (former in more ways than one now...)
A very entertaining read!
There must be something about Koreans and their nukes... perhaps the game designers built it in.
It took me a few moments to figure your reference to a former Soviet spy (former in more ways than one now...)
Although I lost with a spaceship victory to the Egyptians I was, based on everyone elses responses, pretty happy with teh outcome. Adventurer class again although I'm not sure how much it helped me this time out. My biggest mistake was not going for Copper as soon as I couyld and instead holding out for iron. It meant that by the time I'd won the culture war with Cyrus he had longbowmen and there was no chance of me trying to take that on.
Instead I decided to dig in an go for the cultural victory and might have made it given a few more turns. I managed to stockpile 9 GAs and figured I needed about the same again. I got really hurt by losing my second city to the Egyptians through culutre but I really couldn't complain too much as it was surely only there support that kept me alive. Shaka hated me for much of the game but sharing a religion with the Egyptians and gifting them luxury resourecs and any techs I ever got before them (and there weren't many) kept them sweet enough to spend much of the game in a defensive pact with me.
I also managed to build the Pyramids, much to my surprise, which allowed me to switch to Universal Sufferage and buy all those cathedral class buildings, a necessity as my culture cities were all farmed out and churning out GAs. Managed to snaffle 4 cities from Cyrus thanks to culture flips as well which was cool. My biggest problem was health although going for culture meant that I could ditch my luxury resources and get happiness from culture. Still, losing rice from Shaka towards the end basically shaved two off the population of my cities, a real pain.
All in all and *interesting* experience and one, with hindsight, I might have even won on. However, I am in no hurry to go back and try again.
Instead I decided to dig in an go for the cultural victory and might have made it given a few more turns. I managed to stockpile 9 GAs and figured I needed about the same again. I got really hurt by losing my second city to the Egyptians through culutre but I really couldn't complain too much as it was surely only there support that kept me alive. Shaka hated me for much of the game but sharing a religion with the Egyptians and gifting them luxury resourecs and any techs I ever got before them (and there weren't many) kept them sweet enough to spend much of the game in a defensive pact with me.
I also managed to build the Pyramids, much to my surprise, which allowed me to switch to Universal Sufferage and buy all those cathedral class buildings, a necessity as my culture cities were all farmed out and churning out GAs. Managed to snaffle 4 cities from Cyrus thanks to culture flips as well which was cool. My biggest problem was health although going for culture meant that I could ditch my luxury resources and get happiness from culture. Still, losing rice from Shaka towards the end basically shaved two off the population of my cities, a real pain.
All in all and *interesting* experience and one, with hindsight, I might have even won on. However, I am in no hurry to go back and try again.
mushroomshirt
King
I wish I wish I had done what I said I was going to do and settled 2 south of the starting location. Instead after scouting the area I settled in place.
What followed was a furious struggle to take the copper from cyrus that involved losing the eastern horses to Ramses and having to take the northwestern horses from a barb city with nothing but warriors!
I managed to capture Cyrus' copper city, but in the process had gone broke, my units were on strike and I was a million years from finishing iron working. Plus I still had to get a border expansion & defend against all those imortals. Yikes!
I played a very sloppy game, though. I researched masonry to work the stone when I should have researched pottery. Would've, should've, could've... I quit in disgust, but I guess I was not alone.
What followed was a furious struggle to take the copper from cyrus that involved losing the eastern horses to Ramses and having to take the northwestern horses from a barb city with nothing but warriors!
I managed to capture Cyrus' copper city, but in the process had gone broke, my units were on strike and I was a million years from finishing iron working. Plus I still had to get a border expansion & defend against all those imortals. Yikes!
I played a very sloppy game, though. I researched masonry to work the stone when I should have researched pottery. Would've, should've, could've... I quit in disgust, but I guess I was not alone.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Would you please enlighten us, poor mortals how you did this???Erkon said:Nice map, I hope next GOTM will provide more challenge
I've seen some top player miserably beaten, and you seem (until GotM9, at least) an average one.
I hope this happened in your first attempt.
Perhaps you got a slow PC and the AI was sleeping?
One side note:
I suppose the 1st spoiler thread was the most crowded and fun of the entire GotM history, then, at least this goes to Gyathaar credit for this game
.
Alraun
Warlord
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 222
Going for Diplomatic Victory...
As of 500 AD, I have 5 cities and I'm massing War Elephants and Catapults for war. Slightly before this time, I bribe Shaka to attack Egypt (largely to keep either of them from attacking me). In 635 AD, my army is ready and I declare war on Egypt. I had originally planned to go after Cyrus for that copper, but Egypt's culture pressing on my cities made me go after them.
Like me, Egypt has no Iron or Copper, so the only offensive units they have are mounted ones. This makes my War Elephants even more mmm, mmm, good than usual. Shaka captures one of Egypt's cities, but Egypt gets it back, so when I finish off Egypt in 1172, I now have 10 cities. I captured 5 Egyptian cities and razed 2.
Tech wise, I learn Education first in 860. I trade it to Ragnar for Philosophy, as Ragnar is pretty low on the score and I figure I can beat him to Liberalism. Halfway to Liberalism, I figure I'm far enough ahead on researching it that I could trade it to Caesar and still get it first. I was wrong and Caesar ended up beating me to it by 1 turn. After Liberalism, I get Gunpowder then beeline for Military Tradition with the plan of getting cavalry and attacking Cyrus.
In 1274 I finish Military Tradition and start building cavalry. I also start working towards Constitution with the intention of turning ofg research to get the money to upgrade all of my Elephants after I get Democracy. In 1310, Spain goes insane, declares war on me and captures a former Egyptian city I have on their border being pushed by culture. My forces were gearing up on Cyrus's border, so it takes a few turns to get up there, but in 1328, I take the city back with War Elephants.
As is often the case when the AI declares war, Spain had almost no offensive units. She had at most 6 Conquistadors and that was pretty much it. My War Elephants made short work of these and when I finished Constitution in 1334, I went ahead and stopped teching to upgrade all my Elephants. After that, I got Democracy, switched to Universal Sufferage, turned off my reasearch again and started directing all my money towards economic buildings and the war effort.
During the Spanish War, I got Hannibal, who had no negatives with me and was nearly Friendly, to declare war on Spain as well. Sharing war put him over the top to friendly, and I was counting heavily on his vote for my Diplomatic Victory. Ragnar was also on pretty good terms, but the fact that he kept asking me to join his war against Caesar and the fact that Caesar was the only Civ willing to trade me techs forced me to kill that relationship.
In 1388, Spain has one city left and randomly decides to capitulate to Shaka! This brings Shaka into war against me and Hannibal. Seems like pretty bad programming for a Civ to accept a vassal that has one city and is at war with two others, but whatever...
It takes a while to finish off Spain's last city because of dealing with Shaka and the fact that they've upgraded to Riflemen, but it finally happens in 1472, just 20 years before Spain discovers the new world!
Now here's where things turn ugly. After I capture ONE city from Shaka, Shaka randomly capitulates and becomes Hannibal's vassal. I'm not quite sure what's up with this as Shaka still has 4 or 5 cities and I've never been able to convince an AI to capitulate if they had more than 2. Before this, Hannibal had less population than Caesar and Wang Kon and I was counting on their Diplomatic support, but he gained so much population from this that he far surpassed them and I knew there was no chance of them catching up. Looks like I have no Diplomatic Allies!
Anyway, instead of putting me at war with Hannibal, this forces Shaka to make peace with me (without my consent!), and I take my forces back over to prepare for an assault on Cyrus.
At this point in the game, I still don't have copper or iron.
From 1535-1664 I fight Persia until they capitulate with 2 cities left. Sometime during this I turned my science back on and started teching towards UN. I wanted to go Diplomatic and I'm determined to do it no matter what's gone wrong! In 1691 I get Mass Media and start building the UN. I then start working towards tanks and helicopters so I can get some modern war going, since I'm going to have to conquer more population to have enough votes! In 1784, I have all my cavalry upgraded to helicopters and I attack the Zulus. I had a tiny hope that this wouldn't count as me declaring war on Carthage, but no such luck.
The Carthage/Zulu war went from 1784 to 1806 when Carthage capitulated. Overall it went pretty easy with me buying 2-3 tanks every turn. Carthage had a few tanks, but not many and the Zulus didn't have much. Carthage capitulated with 2 cities left. At this point I quickly take out Ragnar as well and then I start an unnecessary war with Caesar in case I needed the popuation and because there was no danger of Caesar's cities having their culture expand before the end of the game.
After I built the UN, no one won the first election and maybe the second. It was between me and Hannibal and we didn't have any outside support. After I started attacking Hannibal, a bad thing happened and the AI's elected Caesar over me for the position. I'm not quite sure why Wang Kon voted for him. They were two different religions at this point.
Anyway, after Caesar's run, I finally manage to win an election while I'm attacking Ragnar/Caesar and in 1819 I'm able to propose a vote on Diplomatic Victory. I win the vote, but between turns my culture expands in some of my cities and triggers a Domination Victory in 1820.
Things that went wrong:
1. Vassal States make Diplomatic Victories harder and have to be handled carefully.
2. When I discovered Wang Kon kinda late, he already had -4 from "You've traded with our worst enemies!" I think it's pretty ridiculous that this can happen before you've met someone, but I guess it's important when going Diplomatic to make sure you get relations with everyone as soon as possible to make sure this doesn't happen. I knew where he was long before I bothered building a boat to go contact him.
3. If I had planned better, perhaps looking up just how long it takes before a new UN election occurs, I maybe could have stalled my war with Hannibal a bit to ensure that some of those cities didn't expand before the election, but I dunno how well that would work.
4. Don't trade Education! Ugh.
Regardless of the reasons, it's quite upsetting to go from an extremely probable award for Diplomatic Victory to a virtually guaranteed lack of anything for Domination when in reality I got both on the same turn. Maybe I shouldn't have been so stubborn to stick with Diplomatic after Shaka went to Hannibal, but that doesn't make it any better.
As of 500 AD, I have 5 cities and I'm massing War Elephants and Catapults for war. Slightly before this time, I bribe Shaka to attack Egypt (largely to keep either of them from attacking me). In 635 AD, my army is ready and I declare war on Egypt. I had originally planned to go after Cyrus for that copper, but Egypt's culture pressing on my cities made me go after them.
Like me, Egypt has no Iron or Copper, so the only offensive units they have are mounted ones. This makes my War Elephants even more mmm, mmm, good than usual. Shaka captures one of Egypt's cities, but Egypt gets it back, so when I finish off Egypt in 1172, I now have 10 cities. I captured 5 Egyptian cities and razed 2.
Tech wise, I learn Education first in 860. I trade it to Ragnar for Philosophy, as Ragnar is pretty low on the score and I figure I can beat him to Liberalism. Halfway to Liberalism, I figure I'm far enough ahead on researching it that I could trade it to Caesar and still get it first. I was wrong and Caesar ended up beating me to it by 1 turn.
After Liberalism, I get Gunpowder then beeline for Military Tradition with the plan of getting cavalry and attacking Cyrus.In 1274 I finish Military Tradition and start building cavalry. I also start working towards Constitution with the intention of turning ofg research to get the money to upgrade all of my Elephants after I get Democracy. In 1310, Spain goes insane, declares war on me and captures a former Egyptian city I have on their border being pushed by culture. My forces were gearing up on Cyrus's border, so it takes a few turns to get up there, but in 1328, I take the city back with War Elephants.
As is often the case when the AI declares war, Spain had almost no offensive units. She had at most 6 Conquistadors and that was pretty much it. My War Elephants made short work of these and when I finished Constitution in 1334, I went ahead and stopped teching to upgrade all my Elephants. After that, I got Democracy, switched to Universal Sufferage, turned off my reasearch again and started directing all my money towards economic buildings and the war effort.
During the Spanish War, I got Hannibal, who had no negatives with me and was nearly Friendly, to declare war on Spain as well. Sharing war put him over the top to friendly, and I was counting heavily on his vote for my Diplomatic Victory. Ragnar was also on pretty good terms, but the fact that he kept asking me to join his war against Caesar and the fact that Caesar was the only Civ willing to trade me techs forced me to kill that relationship.
In 1388, Spain has one city left and randomly decides to capitulate to Shaka! This brings Shaka into war against me and Hannibal. Seems like pretty bad programming for a Civ to accept a vassal that has one city and is at war with two others, but whatever...
It takes a while to finish off Spain's last city because of dealing with Shaka and the fact that they've upgraded to Riflemen, but it finally happens in 1472, just 20 years before Spain discovers the new world!
Now here's where things turn ugly. After I capture ONE city from Shaka, Shaka randomly capitulates and becomes Hannibal's vassal. I'm not quite sure what's up with this as Shaka still has 4 or 5 cities and I've never been able to convince an AI to capitulate if they had more than 2. Before this, Hannibal had less population than Caesar and Wang Kon and I was counting on their Diplomatic support, but he gained so much population from this that he far surpassed them and I knew there was no chance of them catching up. Looks like I have no Diplomatic Allies!
Anyway, instead of putting me at war with Hannibal, this forces Shaka to make peace with me (without my consent!), and I take my forces back over to prepare for an assault on Cyrus.
At this point in the game, I still don't have copper or iron.
From 1535-1664 I fight Persia until they capitulate with 2 cities left. Sometime during this I turned my science back on and started teching towards UN. I wanted to go Diplomatic and I'm determined to do it no matter what's gone wrong! In 1691 I get Mass Media and start building the UN. I then start working towards tanks and helicopters so I can get some modern war going, since I'm going to have to conquer more population to have enough votes! In 1784, I have all my cavalry upgraded to helicopters and I attack the Zulus. I had a tiny hope that this wouldn't count as me declaring war on Carthage, but no such luck.
The Carthage/Zulu war went from 1784 to 1806 when Carthage capitulated. Overall it went pretty easy with me buying 2-3 tanks every turn. Carthage had a few tanks, but not many and the Zulus didn't have much. Carthage capitulated with 2 cities left. At this point I quickly take out Ragnar as well and then I start an unnecessary war with Caesar in case I needed the popuation and because there was no danger of Caesar's cities having their culture expand before the end of the game.
After I built the UN, no one won the first election and maybe the second. It was between me and Hannibal and we didn't have any outside support. After I started attacking Hannibal, a bad thing happened and the AI's elected Caesar over me for the position. I'm not quite sure why Wang Kon voted for him. They were two different religions at this point.
Anyway, after Caesar's run, I finally manage to win an election while I'm attacking Ragnar/Caesar and in 1819 I'm able to propose a vote on Diplomatic Victory. I win the vote, but between turns my culture expands in some of my cities and triggers a Domination Victory in 1820.
Things that went wrong:
1. Vassal States make Diplomatic Victories harder and have to be handled carefully.
2. When I discovered Wang Kon kinda late, he already had -4 from "You've traded with our worst enemies!" I think it's pretty ridiculous that this can happen before you've met someone, but I guess it's important when going Diplomatic to make sure you get relations with everyone as soon as possible to make sure this doesn't happen. I knew where he was long before I bothered building a boat to go contact him.
3. If I had planned better, perhaps looking up just how long it takes before a new UN election occurs, I maybe could have stalled my war with Hannibal a bit to ensure that some of those cities didn't expand before the election, but I dunno how well that would work.
4. Don't trade Education! Ugh.
Regardless of the reasons, it's quite upsetting to go from an extremely probable award for Diplomatic Victory to a virtually guaranteed lack of anything for Domination when in reality I got both on the same turn.
Maybe I shouldn't have been so stubborn to stick with Diplomatic after Shaka went to Hannibal, but that doesn't make it any better.
Domination Victory 1547 AD, score 104905 (base 3923)
My first spoiler described the early years of the Celts, the first war with Egypt and the first war with the Persians. It ended with the Spanish declaring war on me (filthy backstabbers). This spoiler describes all the other wars that the Celts were fighting for world domination. Most of the continent was in my hands in mid 1500s and victory occurred when the newly conquered cities exited revolt.
First Spanish war (500 AD 1112 AD), Second Egyptian War (590 AD - 785 AD)
First Zulu war (1124 AD 1256 AD)
First Carthagian War (1244 AD - 1340 AD)
I did not plan for domination until I had made peace with Zulu the second time. I started counting tiles and estimated that the main continent was about 60% of the land, so I was not sure I would win. I got the population from the captured cities. Then I got a notice from HOF that I was close to 60% land. The notice included a tile-count, and then I understood that I could find the tile count in the demographic list (land area in km2). Divide by 1000 and the result matched with the HOF notice. The map consisted of about 890 tiles so 11 tiles was 1%.
Tech discoveries (500 AD 1547 AD)
Production list (500 AD 1547 AD)
Summary of production and defeated/lost units
My first spoiler described the early years of the Celts, the first war with Egypt and the first war with the Persians. It ended with the Spanish declaring war on me (filthy backstabbers). This spoiler describes all the other wars that the Celts were fighting for world domination. Most of the continent was in my hands in mid 1500s and victory occurred when the newly conquered cities exited revolt.
First Spanish war (500 AD 1112 AD), Second Egyptian War (590 AD - 785 AD)
Spoiler :
First Zulu war (1124 AD 1256 AD)
Spoiler :
First Carthagian War (1244 AD - 1340 AD)
Spoiler :
I did not plan for domination until I had made peace with Zulu the second time. I started counting tiles and estimated that the main continent was about 60% of the land, so I was not sure I would win. I got the population from the captured cities. Then I got a notice from HOF that I was close to 60% land. The notice included a tile-count, and then I understood that I could find the tile count in the demographic list (land area in km2). Divide by 1000 and the result matched with the HOF notice. The map consisted of about 890 tiles so 11 tiles was 1%.
Tech discoveries (500 AD 1547 AD)
Spoiler :
Production list (500 AD 1547 AD)
Spoiler :
Summary of production and defeated/lost units
Spoiler :
Would you please enlighten us, poor mortals how you did this???
I've seen some top player miserably beaten, and you seem (until GotM9, at least) an average one.
I hope this happened in your first attempt.
Perhaps you got a slow PC and the AI was sleeping?
I was very lucky that my strategy worked as good as it did. I have identified a couple of things that helped me:
1. I researched Polytheism and got a much quicker border expansion (7 points instead of 2/turn). This meant that I got the copper (and gems) without building another city.
2. I attacked Ramesses before he got longbowmen, and I was very lucky to capture his capital.
3. I attacked Cyrus before he got too advanced.
4. I dared to shut off research and rely on lightbulbing tech and trade tech for peace.
5. I built mostly units instead of buildings.
It's funny that you mentioned GOTM9 since that was one of my most enjoyable CIV sessions ever. I have never learnt as much from any other game. Although I have learned a lot by playing GOTM, there are still areas I need to improve (predicting great people, predicting AI actions, predicting AI relations etc) so I still consider myself an average player. I always play for domination/conquest and have never tried diplomatic/ss/cultural victories on difficult maps.
The AI was certainly not sleeping, but I utilize his biggest weakness - combat. And yes, this was my first try (no reload, no cheats, just a couple of curses but I doubt the computer is susceptible to that
)All credit should really go to those who posted spoilers describing the basic strategy I adopted. I was very impressed by the early domination/conquests in previous games (especially in the GOTM8 and the GOTM9) and I tried to learn from them. I was particularly upset when A'AbarachAmadan managed a 1000 AD conquest in GOTM11
.The History of the Celts
From the Carthaginian State Library
The ancient sagas of the Celts, only fragments of which survive, indicate that their people originated in a fertile region not far from the western coast of the Great Continent. Recent archaeological finds seem to corroborate these stories. Exactly why the Celts chose to leave this region and settle along the coast is uncertain. The sagas claim that the chiefs of the time felt that in the long run this would yield the most effective use of the region. Given what we know of Celtic history, such foresight seems unlikely.
The Celts were nomadic and warlike, barbaric even by the rough standards of their times. Many of their settlements, including the ancient capital, Bibracte, originated as hilltop fortresses. Located on the coast near a bountiful supply of fish and corn, Bibracte must nevertheless have been an unhealthy place to live in ancient times, surrounded as it was by jungle. No doubt the Celts regretted their decision to settle there.
Thus we see that the Celts came to civilization later than most, and in a site not well suited to it. Their plight was made worse by the aggressive expansion of the early Persian Empire. The Persians moved rapidly northward from their capital of Persepolis. The ancient Celts must have been greatly chagrined when the Persians established their third city, Susa, on the very site they originally called home, in 2020 BC. Every indication is that the Celts could have settled more aggressively had they tried, but instead wasted their resources in developing a fishing fleet and a force of workers for which they had little immediate need.
The intrusion of the Persians into territory the Celts regarded as rightfully their own only encouraged the Celts warlike tendencies. The Celts had knowledge of Bronze from at least 2710 BC, and settled deep in the jngles between Susa and Pasargarde in order to secure a supply. All sources agree that the Celts were advanced metallurgists for their day. They began working in Iron at approximately 1750 BC, long before they had knowledge of seemingly more basic technologies such as agriculture or the wheel.
With access to metal came better weaponry. The Gallic Warriors who have become the stereotypical image of the Celts originated in this era. The elite warrior class of the Celts, they trained from an early age for battle and were known for their ferocity, their expertise in guerilla warfare, and their taste for attacking and plundering cities.
The Celts were well known to the other civilized peoples of their era. They were regarded with distrust by all except their northern neighbors, the Egyptians. Judaism spread to Celtic territory from Egypt in the 800 BCs, and the two peoples were coreligionists and close friends for many centuries. This friendship greatly benefited the Celts, as they thereby learned of Mediation and Priesthood at no cost to themselves. A few Celts were storm-tossed across the sea near Bibracte and reached the island still known as Celtia, long before the Celts had true knowledge of sailing. They convinced the native villagers of the island to join their nation, and thus the ancient Vikings found Celtic Warriors roaming the island when they discovered it from the west in 1600 BC.
The Celts continued in uneasy coexistence with the Persians for some time. They even founded another city, NW of Susa, with access to Cows and Silk. But this situation could not endure. In 475 BC, the inevitable happened. The Celts long-simmering hatred for the Persians boiled over, and Gallic Warriors and Spearmen lashed out in what would be the first known war between two civilizations.
Lacking siege equipment, the Celts were unable to touch Susa behind its city walls. But Pasargarde (on the hilly seacoast NW of Persepolis) was vulnerable, and was captured by the Celts Gallic Warriors in 415 BC. The Celtic army then marched on Persepolis, but was once again stymied by defensive fortifications. They continued further east and fell upon Tarsus, capturing it in 295 BC. This marked the end of the first Celtic-Persian War. In time, Pasargarde would grow to become one of the greatest cities of the Celtic Empire (such as it was). Tarsus, by contrast, was a squalid jungle town best known for supplying later Celtic armies with War Elephants.
Fresh from their success over the Persians, the Celts staged a surprise attack on the Vikings in 55 BC. Having developed true sailing ships some time earlier, they were able to land veteran troops on the island of Celtia and capture the city of Haithabu in 40 BC, sited on the hills at the extreme northwestern tip of the island, with little difficulty. The Vikings were unable to mount any sort of response.
These two successful wars left the Celts with greatly expanded territory. It also heightened their ambitions. Veteran troops settled in Bibracte and filled the youth there with stories of conquest and practical advice on the use of the axe and the spear. What the Celts did not understand, however, was that while they were glorying in primitive warfare, the other civilizations of the world were advancing in technology by leaps and bounds. Celtic science, by contrast, was on the decline. The cost of a large military and an expansive empire outstripped the ability of the Celts to pay for it. The foolhardy establishment of a new Celtic city, Gergovia, in the hills northeast of Susa, only worsened the situation. Nevertheless, did make one more noteworthy technical development, Construction, in 425 AD. This enabled them to engage in siege warfare, and train elephants for use in battle.
The Celts launched a second war against the Persians in 575 AD, an act that would lead to one of the major turning points in world history. The Celts were led by their great general, William the Conqueror. Williams plan was to lead the Celtic field army, consisting of War Elephants, Catapults, and Gallic Warriors, directly against the Persian capital of Persepolis. Secondary forces under construction in the Celtic homeland would concentrate near Bibracte and then move against Susa.
Weakened by the previous war, the once mighty Persians were no match for the Celts. Persepolis fell in 695 AD, and with it detailed plans to the Great Wall of Persia. The Persian emperor was killed. His young heir and his regents were in the new capital in beleaguered Susa. A Persian offer of peace to the Celts was rejected, and Celtic armies began moving on Susa and Persias southern cities.
All seemed lost for the Persians, and a fateful decision was made. In return for aid against the Celts, the Persian regents offered vassalage to the Carthaginian Empire. The offer was accepted, and the five-year-old former emperor of Persia was wedded to Emperor Hannibals eldest daughter in 710 AD, sealing the alliance. Carthaginian troops surged out of the south toward the Celtic Empire.
Carthage at this time was significantly larger and more advanced than either the Persians or Celts, although it was not yet the dominant world power it is today. The Celts were immediately thrown on the defensive. The Carthaginian army included forces never before seen by the Celts such as Crossbows, Macemen, and armored Knights. Determined to hold on to hard-won Persepolis, much of the Celtic field army entrenched there. This proved futile; the city was captured by Carthage in 860 AD.
Carthaginian and Persian forces pressed the offensive, threatening the Persian cities the Celts captured in their first war, as well as the native Celtic city of Vienne. Meanwhile, Persian reinforcement reached Susa via Egypt, forcing the Celts to defend against raids and spoiling attacks within the Celtic homeland. The Celts rushed to build their unique style of Wall, a Dun in the most threatened cities. These walls, and the Celts continuing expertise in guerilla warfare, served them well. They were able to hold their southern border while slowly assembling a force to attack Susa. They succeeded in capturing the city in 995 AD, achieving their long-held dream of returning to the birthplace of their people.
Both sides were exhausted by the long war. The Celts requested an end to the fighting. Carthage demanded that they cede control of Tarsus in exchange for peace, and the Celts accepted. When the Carthaginian generals saw how weak the remaining defenders of Tarsus really were, they regretted not pressing on with the war.
Thus ended the first Carthago-Celtic War. Modern readers might be surprised to hear that some among the Celts considered it a success. They had ruined their hated enemies, the Persians, shattering their power and ending their independence. And newly captured Susa was seen as a more than fair replacement for lost Tarsus. But the truth was that the glory days of the Celts, if they could be called such, were now well past. The war effort had consumed all of the Celts attention for hundreds of years and left them laughably backwards in technology. Efforts were made to improve the economy and infrastructure, but they were far too little and too late.
In 1232 AD the Zulus approached the Celts and requested help in a war on Egypt. The Celtic relationship with Egypt had soured after the Egyptian Conversion, and the Celts had been trying to curry favor with the Hindu Zulus and Spaniards as allies against Carthage. They agreed to join the war, which was already going in the Zulus favor.
For a short time, all seemed well. But then, in 1250, the Carthaginian and Persian armies launched the Glorious War of Celtic Elimination. The Celtic army, as always, was dominated by Gallic Warriors, Catapults, and Spearmen. These had proved barely sufficient against Macemen and Knights. But they were no match for Trebuchets and gunpowder-equipped Cavalry. The very finest of the Gallic Warriors, led by the great El Cid, used every guerilla warfare trick possible and were able to score a single stunning victory over the First Carthaginian Cavalry in the early days of the war. But this was merely a speed bump.
As Celtic troops desperately marched south to meet the new threat, the Egyptians sensed opportunity and struck. They captured Susa in 1280 AD. The city would change hands three more times before the Celts agreed to cede it to Egypt in 1298 in exchange for peace.
Meanwhile, the superior Carthaginian Army moved inexorably across Celtic lands, capturing Celtic cities and without exception destroyed. This was a war to end any chance of the Celts even being a nuisance to Carthage from now on. Pasargarde was destroyed in 1286 AD, followed by Vienne in 1304 AD. In 1322 the capital, Bibractre, was captured, burned to the ground, and its fields sowed with salt. In 1334 Tolosa was given the same treatment.
The Celts had now been exterminated from the mainland. All that remained to them was the city of Haithabu on the island of Celtia. Carthage did not feel the need to destroy it. It was too low production of an area to build anything threatening. Instead, warships were stationed off the citys harbor to stunt its growth. A state of war remained in effect.
The last centuries of Celtic existence were thus spent in a state of permanent blockade. Nothing they offered in exchange for peace was accepted. The lands that had once been theirs were settled by Carthaginians and Egyptians. Carthage grew to become the most powerful nation on earth in no small part because of the territory and vassal gained directly or indirectly at the expense of the Celts.
The Celts remained in existence at this point only because no one cared about them or their island. That apparently changed last year, for in 1574 AD, the Roman Empire landed an expeditionary force on Celtia. Apparently they felt the anchorage at Haithabu would be useful to them. The Celts lived up to their warlike reputation by once again defeating a Cavalry unit with only a Gallic Warrior. Subsequent battles did not go as well, and Haithabu was captured. The Celts will live on now only as a tiny minority within the Roman and Egyptian empires, and in histories such as this one.
From the Carthaginian State Library
The ancient sagas of the Celts, only fragments of which survive, indicate that their people originated in a fertile region not far from the western coast of the Great Continent. Recent archaeological finds seem to corroborate these stories. Exactly why the Celts chose to leave this region and settle along the coast is uncertain. The sagas claim that the chiefs of the time felt that in the long run this would yield the most effective use of the region. Given what we know of Celtic history, such foresight seems unlikely.
The Celts were nomadic and warlike, barbaric even by the rough standards of their times. Many of their settlements, including the ancient capital, Bibracte, originated as hilltop fortresses. Located on the coast near a bountiful supply of fish and corn, Bibracte must nevertheless have been an unhealthy place to live in ancient times, surrounded as it was by jungle. No doubt the Celts regretted their decision to settle there.
Thus we see that the Celts came to civilization later than most, and in a site not well suited to it. Their plight was made worse by the aggressive expansion of the early Persian Empire. The Persians moved rapidly northward from their capital of Persepolis. The ancient Celts must have been greatly chagrined when the Persians established their third city, Susa, on the very site they originally called home, in 2020 BC. Every indication is that the Celts could have settled more aggressively had they tried, but instead wasted their resources in developing a fishing fleet and a force of workers for which they had little immediate need.
The intrusion of the Persians into territory the Celts regarded as rightfully their own only encouraged the Celts warlike tendencies. The Celts had knowledge of Bronze from at least 2710 BC, and settled deep in the jngles between Susa and Pasargarde in order to secure a supply. All sources agree that the Celts were advanced metallurgists for their day. They began working in Iron at approximately 1750 BC, long before they had knowledge of seemingly more basic technologies such as agriculture or the wheel.
With access to metal came better weaponry. The Gallic Warriors who have become the stereotypical image of the Celts originated in this era. The elite warrior class of the Celts, they trained from an early age for battle and were known for their ferocity, their expertise in guerilla warfare, and their taste for attacking and plundering cities.
The Celts were well known to the other civilized peoples of their era. They were regarded with distrust by all except their northern neighbors, the Egyptians. Judaism spread to Celtic territory from Egypt in the 800 BCs, and the two peoples were coreligionists and close friends for many centuries. This friendship greatly benefited the Celts, as they thereby learned of Mediation and Priesthood at no cost to themselves. A few Celts were storm-tossed across the sea near Bibracte and reached the island still known as Celtia, long before the Celts had true knowledge of sailing. They convinced the native villagers of the island to join their nation, and thus the ancient Vikings found Celtic Warriors roaming the island when they discovered it from the west in 1600 BC.
The Celts continued in uneasy coexistence with the Persians for some time. They even founded another city, NW of Susa, with access to Cows and Silk. But this situation could not endure. In 475 BC, the inevitable happened. The Celts long-simmering hatred for the Persians boiled over, and Gallic Warriors and Spearmen lashed out in what would be the first known war between two civilizations.
Lacking siege equipment, the Celts were unable to touch Susa behind its city walls. But Pasargarde (on the hilly seacoast NW of Persepolis) was vulnerable, and was captured by the Celts Gallic Warriors in 415 BC. The Celtic army then marched on Persepolis, but was once again stymied by defensive fortifications. They continued further east and fell upon Tarsus, capturing it in 295 BC. This marked the end of the first Celtic-Persian War. In time, Pasargarde would grow to become one of the greatest cities of the Celtic Empire (such as it was). Tarsus, by contrast, was a squalid jungle town best known for supplying later Celtic armies with War Elephants.
Fresh from their success over the Persians, the Celts staged a surprise attack on the Vikings in 55 BC. Having developed true sailing ships some time earlier, they were able to land veteran troops on the island of Celtia and capture the city of Haithabu in 40 BC, sited on the hills at the extreme northwestern tip of the island, with little difficulty. The Vikings were unable to mount any sort of response.
These two successful wars left the Celts with greatly expanded territory. It also heightened their ambitions. Veteran troops settled in Bibracte and filled the youth there with stories of conquest and practical advice on the use of the axe and the spear. What the Celts did not understand, however, was that while they were glorying in primitive warfare, the other civilizations of the world were advancing in technology by leaps and bounds. Celtic science, by contrast, was on the decline. The cost of a large military and an expansive empire outstripped the ability of the Celts to pay for it. The foolhardy establishment of a new Celtic city, Gergovia, in the hills northeast of Susa, only worsened the situation. Nevertheless, did make one more noteworthy technical development, Construction, in 425 AD. This enabled them to engage in siege warfare, and train elephants for use in battle.
The Celts launched a second war against the Persians in 575 AD, an act that would lead to one of the major turning points in world history. The Celts were led by their great general, William the Conqueror. Williams plan was to lead the Celtic field army, consisting of War Elephants, Catapults, and Gallic Warriors, directly against the Persian capital of Persepolis. Secondary forces under construction in the Celtic homeland would concentrate near Bibracte and then move against Susa.
Weakened by the previous war, the once mighty Persians were no match for the Celts. Persepolis fell in 695 AD, and with it detailed plans to the Great Wall of Persia. The Persian emperor was killed. His young heir and his regents were in the new capital in beleaguered Susa. A Persian offer of peace to the Celts was rejected, and Celtic armies began moving on Susa and Persias southern cities.
All seemed lost for the Persians, and a fateful decision was made. In return for aid against the Celts, the Persian regents offered vassalage to the Carthaginian Empire. The offer was accepted, and the five-year-old former emperor of Persia was wedded to Emperor Hannibals eldest daughter in 710 AD, sealing the alliance. Carthaginian troops surged out of the south toward the Celtic Empire.
Carthage at this time was significantly larger and more advanced than either the Persians or Celts, although it was not yet the dominant world power it is today. The Celts were immediately thrown on the defensive. The Carthaginian army included forces never before seen by the Celts such as Crossbows, Macemen, and armored Knights. Determined to hold on to hard-won Persepolis, much of the Celtic field army entrenched there. This proved futile; the city was captured by Carthage in 860 AD.
Carthaginian and Persian forces pressed the offensive, threatening the Persian cities the Celts captured in their first war, as well as the native Celtic city of Vienne. Meanwhile, Persian reinforcement reached Susa via Egypt, forcing the Celts to defend against raids and spoiling attacks within the Celtic homeland. The Celts rushed to build their unique style of Wall, a Dun in the most threatened cities. These walls, and the Celts continuing expertise in guerilla warfare, served them well. They were able to hold their southern border while slowly assembling a force to attack Susa. They succeeded in capturing the city in 995 AD, achieving their long-held dream of returning to the birthplace of their people.
Both sides were exhausted by the long war. The Celts requested an end to the fighting. Carthage demanded that they cede control of Tarsus in exchange for peace, and the Celts accepted. When the Carthaginian generals saw how weak the remaining defenders of Tarsus really were, they regretted not pressing on with the war.
Thus ended the first Carthago-Celtic War. Modern readers might be surprised to hear that some among the Celts considered it a success. They had ruined their hated enemies, the Persians, shattering their power and ending their independence. And newly captured Susa was seen as a more than fair replacement for lost Tarsus. But the truth was that the glory days of the Celts, if they could be called such, were now well past. The war effort had consumed all of the Celts attention for hundreds of years and left them laughably backwards in technology. Efforts were made to improve the economy and infrastructure, but they were far too little and too late.
In 1232 AD the Zulus approached the Celts and requested help in a war on Egypt. The Celtic relationship with Egypt had soured after the Egyptian Conversion, and the Celts had been trying to curry favor with the Hindu Zulus and Spaniards as allies against Carthage. They agreed to join the war, which was already going in the Zulus favor.
For a short time, all seemed well. But then, in 1250, the Carthaginian and Persian armies launched the Glorious War of Celtic Elimination. The Celtic army, as always, was dominated by Gallic Warriors, Catapults, and Spearmen. These had proved barely sufficient against Macemen and Knights. But they were no match for Trebuchets and gunpowder-equipped Cavalry. The very finest of the Gallic Warriors, led by the great El Cid, used every guerilla warfare trick possible and were able to score a single stunning victory over the First Carthaginian Cavalry in the early days of the war. But this was merely a speed bump.
As Celtic troops desperately marched south to meet the new threat, the Egyptians sensed opportunity and struck. They captured Susa in 1280 AD. The city would change hands three more times before the Celts agreed to cede it to Egypt in 1298 in exchange for peace.
Meanwhile, the superior Carthaginian Army moved inexorably across Celtic lands, capturing Celtic cities and without exception destroyed. This was a war to end any chance of the Celts even being a nuisance to Carthage from now on. Pasargarde was destroyed in 1286 AD, followed by Vienne in 1304 AD. In 1322 the capital, Bibractre, was captured, burned to the ground, and its fields sowed with salt. In 1334 Tolosa was given the same treatment.
The Celts had now been exterminated from the mainland. All that remained to them was the city of Haithabu on the island of Celtia. Carthage did not feel the need to destroy it. It was too low production of an area to build anything threatening. Instead, warships were stationed off the citys harbor to stunt its growth. A state of war remained in effect.
The last centuries of Celtic existence were thus spent in a state of permanent blockade. Nothing they offered in exchange for peace was accepted. The lands that had once been theirs were settled by Carthaginians and Egyptians. Carthage grew to become the most powerful nation on earth in no small part because of the territory and vassal gained directly or indirectly at the expense of the Celts.
The Celts remained in existence at this point only because no one cared about them or their island. That apparently changed last year, for in 1574 AD, the Roman Empire landed an expeditionary force on Celtia. Apparently they felt the anchorage at Haithabu would be useful to them. The Celts lived up to their warlike reputation by once again defeating a Cavalry unit with only a Gallic Warrior. Subsequent battles did not go as well, and Haithabu was captured. The Celts will live on now only as a tiny minority within the Roman and Egyptian empires, and in histories such as this one.
A'AbarachAmadan
Deity
Very good process! I rarely go after religion first, but it can be a big help on a crowded map. I failed to do 2 & 3 because I was focused on going for Diplomacy victory and wanted to go tech heavy. It hurt as I had to wait while they grew almost beyond control. (I'll do a more lengthy write-up when I get a chance.)
After I finally built about two dozen catapults by around 665AD and backed them up Egypt fell like a sack of bricks. After that, life wasn't so bad and I was able to maintain 100% science almost the entire time (after currency). Cyrus was my bud, always voting for me after I got the UN. Eventually, I looped around the island, leaving Hannibal till last with Grenadiers/Trebuchets beating down the extensive Riflemen. The best part was the Zulu and Spanish going to war which allowed me to attack Spain while it was distracted and then continue to follow on. The AI definately fights more better with some good counter-attacks by the Zulu and Carthage that would have been effective, except with capturing the Hindu capital and being Hindi I could see most of their cities and hence their troop movements.
jprc
My dog is smarter than me
Well, a win, space ship victory 1948AD, but it was done at adventurer level, so nothing great, except for me as I am more than satisfied with it and winning was not due to my skills but to a series of good events
Thank you Gyathaar for offering us a wotm3 that requires more thoughts and second thoughts that just the boring mechanically over-used “pouet slingshot” or “sploosh slingshot”
…
I am at most a monarch level player. Reading the pre-thread was a good warning, and I just played with the adventurer version as 2.08 is said by all “specialists” that it is 1 level higher than the previous version, hence choosing adventurer was a monarch level for me, and contender is an emperor level: just a trap for those who are too used to load and reload maps until it is at their convenience for a “prepared” victory path .
Having a worker at start makes all difference: mining and having a settler produced after 18 turns instead of 50 greatly helps…
The choice for my 2nd city was a lucky event: I always follow the river in my games as it is an immediate link with my capital. I settled on top of the hill close from the river, which proved to be essential only for the last 10 turns of the game as the city was slowing down Cyrus, when he tried reaching my last space component located further north. It bought me time that gave me the victory.
Other cities were placed for protecting/reserving my developping area.
Amazingly, I was the “most cultured” civilization until 985BC and again in 1170AD while nothing special were done abouit it (only 1 World Wonder: Stonehenge!!). This tells me that other civilizations were very not oriented on culture: Any good player knowing how to use this can certainly go for a cultural victory as other civilizations are very weak on this aspect!! I can’t: I never tried (and won) a cultural victory!!
My first and only plan was to go as quickly as possible for a religion (Buddhism), then Stonehenge (thank you free worker!), and spread as much as possible my religion.
It worked very well, and All civilizations but Spain, Korea, Rome were soon Buddhist. This help for growing with less fear of the incredibly fast growing civs around me!
I used then my best skill: diplomacy, having the big cats supporting me, and Hannibal, Ragnar attacking Rome. I had then a pretty peaceful game. Shaka was easily convinced to attack Isabella who started to be boring and she became quickly Shaka’s vassal. Then Shaka was convinced with some tecs to attack the giant Ramses, which was dealt with promptly as Ramses proved to be military weak (proportionally to others). Joining the feast, and seeing that Ramses was definitely out, I joined the massacre, and took the beautiful Thebes that Shaka had softened for rounds. This placed me in Shaka’s top list of “best friends” (the AI should notice when a "friend" is just walking in a city that another civ attacked for rounds...), and I grew up slowly with his super protection
.
I tried a diplomatic victory, but Cyrus was too big, and he was always vetoing my nomination.
I then rushed for a space victory, using a last time Shaka/Isabella (nice stubborn couple!!) for attacking Cyrus and diverting his resources. Cyrus started crushing Shaka, so I had to declare war myself, getting ready for sacrificing some cities and buying most needed time for protecting the last component of the spaceship that was built further north.
In the game, I did not use at all the advantages of Celtic civilization: instead of building Duns, I built monasteries and monks, instead of rushing for copper/iron and Celtic warriors, I went again for monks and monks… Soon, all cities (but Isabella) in the main continent and Ragnar were Buddhist and it boosted my finances and relationships.
I am not a warmonger and in such a difficult game I found it was the only key to my survival!!!
Next time, no way for me to try something other than adventurer: this wotm3 took all my energy and totally drained my poor brain!!! I just wish it will be again and again entertaining like this one!!!
Thank you Gyathaar for offering us a wotm3 that requires more thoughts and second thoughts that just the boring mechanically over-used “pouet slingshot” or “sploosh slingshot”
…I am at most a monarch level player. Reading the pre-thread was a good warning, and I just played with the adventurer version as 2.08 is said by all “specialists” that it is 1 level higher than the previous version, hence choosing adventurer was a monarch level for me, and contender is an emperor level: just a trap for those who are too used to load and reload maps until it is at their convenience for a “prepared” victory path
.Having a worker at start makes all difference: mining and having a settler produced after 18 turns instead of 50 greatly helps…
The choice for my 2nd city was a lucky event: I always follow the river in my games as it is an immediate link with my capital. I settled on top of the hill close from the river, which proved to be essential only for the last 10 turns of the game as the city was slowing down Cyrus, when he tried reaching my last space component located further north. It bought me time that gave me the victory.
Other cities were placed for protecting/reserving my developping area.
Amazingly, I was the “most cultured” civilization until 985BC and again in 1170AD while nothing special were done abouit it (only 1 World Wonder: Stonehenge!!). This tells me that other civilizations were very not oriented on culture: Any good player knowing how to use this can certainly go for a cultural victory as other civilizations are very weak on this aspect!! I can’t: I never tried (and won) a cultural victory!! My first and only plan was to go as quickly as possible for a religion (Buddhism), then Stonehenge (thank you free worker!), and spread as much as possible my religion.
It worked very well, and All civilizations but Spain, Korea, Rome were soon Buddhist. This help for growing with less fear of the incredibly fast growing civs around me!
I used then my best skill: diplomacy, having the big cats supporting me, and Hannibal, Ragnar attacking Rome. I had then a pretty peaceful game. Shaka was easily convinced to attack Isabella who started to be boring and she became quickly Shaka’s vassal. Then Shaka was convinced with some tecs to attack the giant Ramses, which was dealt with promptly as Ramses proved to be military weak (proportionally to others). Joining the feast, and seeing that Ramses was definitely out, I joined the massacre, and took the beautiful Thebes that Shaka had softened for rounds. This placed me in Shaka’s top list of “best friends” (the AI should notice when a "friend" is just walking in a city that another civ attacked for rounds...), and I grew up slowly with his super protection
.I tried a diplomatic victory, but Cyrus was too big, and he was always vetoing my nomination.
I then rushed for a space victory, using a last time Shaka/Isabella (nice stubborn couple!!) for attacking Cyrus and diverting his resources. Cyrus started crushing Shaka, so I had to declare war myself, getting ready for sacrificing some cities and buying most needed time for protecting the last component of the spaceship that was built further north.
In the game, I did not use at all the advantages of Celtic civilization: instead of building Duns, I built monasteries and monks, instead of rushing for copper/iron and Celtic warriors, I went again for monks and monks… Soon, all cities (but Isabella) in the main continent and Ragnar were Buddhist and it boosted my finances and relationships.
I am not a warmonger and in such a difficult game I found it was the only key to my survival!!!
Next time, no way for me to try something other than adventurer: this wotm3 took all my energy and totally drained my poor brain!!! I just wish it will be again and again entertaining like this one!!!
jprc
My dog is smarter than me
You are right! It is also what I thought when reading before posting!
Not sure if your avatar is appropriate those days...
For my part, I won painfully only because I was not attacked by Ramses/Shaka/Cyrus and I was lucky, otherwise Ramses was the path to strong victory (or quick goodbye!!). Of all "big" 3, Ramses was the most "juicy" and the less defended. Controlling the flooded river was giving you a huge advantage...
But it was a decision to be taken early in the game, or else...
I was just a coward as any mistake in a gotm is a no-return way, but I am going to try again a new game, and be aggressive for a change!
By the way Vynd: very nice History Channel report you did!! I just miss a little love story in it, a touch of romantism in all this carnage, and you get Nominated for the WOTM Oscar...
Not sure if your avatar is appropriate those days...
For my part, I won painfully only because I was not attacked by Ramses/Shaka/Cyrus and I was lucky, otherwise Ramses was the path to strong victory (or quick goodbye!!). Of all "big" 3, Ramses was the most "juicy" and the less defended. Controlling the flooded river was giving you a huge advantage...
But it was a decision to be taken early in the game, or else...
I was just a coward
as any mistake in a gotm is a no-return way, but I am going to try again a new game, and be aggressive for a change!By the way Vynd: very nice History Channel report you did!! I just miss a little love story in it, a touch of romantism in all this carnage, and you get Nominated for the WOTM Oscar...
lroumen
Warlord
Yes, going for Cyrus early on is a mistake because he has his horses going well. Trying to get the Copper to the south also seems like suicide because when you settle there Cyrus will always attack you to either take your city near the Copper or to plant his own after he razes yours.
What I found very interesting is that when you do a cultural expansion and take the Copper from him that way he DOESN'T attack you but stays friendly! I guess he thinks he can still grab it back through culture or something. Anyways, that is what happened in my own first attempt, but I was blown away by the sheer power of Shaka's Elephants so my gain with Cyrus didn't get me very far.
I guess the best two starts would be:
1. 2nd city on the horses, attack Egypt, expand East to the ivory.
2. Settle your capital to the South from the starting position.
What happens after that I wouldn't know.... I didn't get that far.
What I found very interesting is that when you do a cultural expansion and take the Copper from him that way he DOESN'T attack you but stays friendly! I guess he thinks he can still grab it back through culture or something. Anyways, that is what happened in my own first attempt, but I was blown away by the sheer power of Shaka's Elephants so my gain with Cyrus didn't get me very far.
I guess the best two starts would be:
1. 2nd city on the horses, attack Egypt, expand East to the ivory.
2. Settle your capital to the South from the starting position.
What happens after that I wouldn't know.... I didn't get that far.
Pious_Pete
Warlord
First a quick recap:-
I daresay you are all on tenterhooks, anxiously waiting to hear how this turned out. Well the following came to pass:-
Oh well, only three more days to go, and we can get stuck into GOTM13.
Pious_Pete said:
I daresay you are all on tenterhooks, anxiously waiting to hear how this turned out. Well the following came to pass:-
- 510AD. Nothing! I guess Cyrus was patching up that scratch on his 98th Immortal. Still, I wish my archer hadn´t stuck his head over the dun to make some disparaging remark about the parentage of the aforementioned Persian...
- 520AD. The onslaught began. I was hoping for some valiant last ditch stand - think Michael Caine in Zulu, John Wayne in The Alamo, Richard Egan in 300 Spartans - but it was not to be. One rather nonchalant stab, and it was all over.
- 530AD. I save my ignominious defeat for posterity.
Oh well, only three more days to go, and we can get stuck into GOTM13.
godotnut
Inverted Unicycle
I retired in 1490. After a long struggle with my first attempt, this map has beat me. I may have had a very slight chance of winning when I quit, but so slight that I felt my time was better spent on other games I have going (and trying this one again).
When I left off my first spoiler, I had conquered most of Egypt and was feeling that I had a respectable chance of winning (though I was worried). I did, it turns out--but only briefly. I amassed a substantial and well promoted army and was ready to hit Cyrus in an attempt to arrest his lead before he got grenadiers. I feel confident that I could have taken a few cities, including his precious gems city southeast of my elephant fields. But it wasn't to be.
Two turns before I was about to declare, Shaka declared on me for the second time. This time, he really meant it. A stack of 20 mixed units, including knights, maces, cats, trebuchets, and elephants all hit my bottleneck city east of elephant land. It was one of the largest and toughest stacks I'd seen at that point in a civ game (around 700 AD).
I had a chance still. My bottleneck city was well fortified with a dun and longbows, also a couple Gallic warriors with multiple hill defense promotions (town was on a hill). These brave warriors decimated most of the stack of 20, which he threw at me in two waves, first with bombardment and collateral damage, then with the rest. The town was sure to fall. I sent the rest of my army toward him to take the city back.
He razed it and marched toward elephant town, where I had recently completed the Heroic Epic. Just behind the stack of 20 came 6 more of his knights. At the exact same time, from further west, a wave Isabella's conquistadors swept down on my newly conquered cities from Ramses. Isabella, I had failed to notice, had just become his vassal (he declared on me almost immediately afterwards).
Isabella fought very well, guarding her conquistadors with longbowmen while they pillaged most of Ramses's massive cottages that I was counting on to put me back in the tech race. That side of my kingdom was lightly defended. It seems it's not so easy anymore to predict where the AI will hit, and once they hit somewhere, you cannot count on them to continue from that angle. I had to whip massively just to save these cities, killing much of my population and lowering me from third to fifth place. And the Conquistadors kept coming, on and on, in waves from multiple directions for the eight centuries, until I retired.
Shaka kept coming too, though he didn't manage the bottleneck very well, and I must have picked off two or three dozen of his knights with my war elephants.
Then the AI did something amazingly smart--something that proves just how improved it is. Shaka had been sitting on a useless faraway city in the southwest corner from my capital, and he actually GAVE IT AWAY to Ragnar, so that he could attack my capital with the troops sitting there and reduce his own maintenance costs. I have never seen an AI give a city away in a strategically smart move. It caught me totally off-guard, and I didn't even notice until he was upon my capital with a small stack (I won't let that happen again, I assure you).
I actually lost the capital for one turn before taking back right away. But it was long enough to lose the two priests that I had added there as specialists and destroy all of my buildings except a forge and Stonehenge.
Meanwhile the waves of units from Shaka and Isabella continues. Vassals are CLEARLY capable of coordinating their attacks with their masters, except when the master is human, in which case we must engage in the ponderous process of telling the AI which cities to attack through the diplomacy screen.
Despite all of this, with the help of my Heroic Epic, I was pumping out an elephant every other turn and rebuilding my army. I even took one of Shaka's cities to get one of his two irons (I lost my copper in the middle of this war because of a cultural push from Cyrus).
However, Shaka upgraded to musketmen while my economy had ground to a halt as a result of whipping and pillaging. Shaka would not negotiate peace under any circumstances no matter how many units of his I killed. And I slaughtered many dozens--many times more than the number of troops that I lost.
I don't really understand where all of his production came from, looking at his land. And I have no idea what Isabella's land even looked like. Indeed I never saw three other AI's lands at all this game.
Meanwhile Cyrus upgraded to cavalry. That's when I knew it was probably done (Shaka was the least of my worries in the long run, as Cyrus had a massive tech lead with all of those gems). When a stack of twenty more mixed units of Shaka's and Isabella's appeared to reclaim his iron city, I knew the gig was up.
I had more land than Shaka, and I had forges, and the heroic epic. Indeed I had focussed everything into production throughout the game, knowing I would need the hammers. Despite this, the combined forces of Shaka and Isabella outproduced me in the end. It was a humbling experience.
Sincerest congratulations to everyone who legitimately won this game. Be proud. This was a major accomplishment.
I think it does no good to speculate here who or may not have cheated. Hopefully the new system will catch many of them. In HOF games, the mod has been very successful at catching reloaders; however, with the spoiler posts, it's impossible to prevent people who want to from knowing about the map in advance. Personally, though, I admire those players most who have posted one or more failed or mediocre games along with their impressive ones. To me, this is the surest sign that someone is playing by the rules. It seems rather unlikely that someone could play every single GOTM and WOTM without ever once having a bad game.
This game was a great big reality check for me. Clearly, I still have much to learn, and even more clearly, I severely underestimated how good the new AI is when I launched this game.
Good luck to all.
When I left off my first spoiler, I had conquered most of Egypt and was feeling that I had a respectable chance of winning (though I was worried). I did, it turns out--but only briefly. I amassed a substantial and well promoted army and was ready to hit Cyrus in an attempt to arrest his lead before he got grenadiers. I feel confident that I could have taken a few cities, including his precious gems city southeast of my elephant fields. But it wasn't to be.
Two turns before I was about to declare, Shaka declared on me for the second time. This time, he really meant it. A stack of 20 mixed units, including knights, maces, cats, trebuchets, and elephants all hit my bottleneck city east of elephant land. It was one of the largest and toughest stacks I'd seen at that point in a civ game (around 700 AD).
I had a chance still. My bottleneck city was well fortified with a dun and longbows, also a couple Gallic warriors with multiple hill defense promotions (town was on a hill). These brave warriors decimated most of the stack of 20, which he threw at me in two waves, first with bombardment and collateral damage, then with the rest. The town was sure to fall. I sent the rest of my army toward him to take the city back.
He razed it and marched toward elephant town, where I had recently completed the Heroic Epic. Just behind the stack of 20 came 6 more of his knights. At the exact same time, from further west, a wave Isabella's conquistadors swept down on my newly conquered cities from Ramses. Isabella, I had failed to notice, had just become his vassal (he declared on me almost immediately afterwards).
Isabella fought very well, guarding her conquistadors with longbowmen while they pillaged most of Ramses's massive cottages that I was counting on to put me back in the tech race. That side of my kingdom was lightly defended. It seems it's not so easy anymore to predict where the AI will hit, and once they hit somewhere, you cannot count on them to continue from that angle. I had to whip massively just to save these cities, killing much of my population and lowering me from third to fifth place. And the Conquistadors kept coming, on and on, in waves from multiple directions for the eight centuries, until I retired.
Shaka kept coming too, though he didn't manage the bottleneck very well, and I must have picked off two or three dozen of his knights with my war elephants.
Then the AI did something amazingly smart--something that proves just how improved it is. Shaka had been sitting on a useless faraway city in the southwest corner from my capital, and he actually GAVE IT AWAY to Ragnar, so that he could attack my capital with the troops sitting there and reduce his own maintenance costs. I have never seen an AI give a city away in a strategically smart move. It caught me totally off-guard, and I didn't even notice until he was upon my capital with a small stack (I won't let that happen again, I assure you).
I actually lost the capital for one turn before taking back right away. But it was long enough to lose the two priests that I had added there as specialists and destroy all of my buildings except a forge and Stonehenge.
Meanwhile the waves of units from Shaka and Isabella continues. Vassals are CLEARLY capable of coordinating their attacks with their masters, except when the master is human, in which case we must engage in the ponderous process of telling the AI which cities to attack through the diplomacy screen.
Despite all of this, with the help of my Heroic Epic, I was pumping out an elephant every other turn and rebuilding my army. I even took one of Shaka's cities to get one of his two irons (I lost my copper in the middle of this war because of a cultural push from Cyrus).
However, Shaka upgraded to musketmen while my economy had ground to a halt as a result of whipping and pillaging. Shaka would not negotiate peace under any circumstances no matter how many units of his I killed. And I slaughtered many dozens--many times more than the number of troops that I lost.
I don't really understand where all of his production came from, looking at his land. And I have no idea what Isabella's land even looked like. Indeed I never saw three other AI's lands at all this game.
Meanwhile Cyrus upgraded to cavalry. That's when I knew it was probably done (Shaka was the least of my worries in the long run, as Cyrus had a massive tech lead with all of those gems). When a stack of twenty more mixed units of Shaka's and Isabella's appeared to reclaim his iron city, I knew the gig was up.
I had more land than Shaka, and I had forges, and the heroic epic. Indeed I had focussed everything into production throughout the game, knowing I would need the hammers. Despite this, the combined forces of Shaka and Isabella outproduced me in the end. It was a humbling experience.
Sincerest congratulations to everyone who legitimately won this game. Be proud. This was a major accomplishment.
I think it does no good to speculate here who or may not have cheated. Hopefully the new system will catch many of them. In HOF games, the mod has been very successful at catching reloaders; however, with the spoiler posts, it's impossible to prevent people who want to from knowing about the map in advance. Personally, though, I admire those players most who have posted one or more failed or mediocre games along with their impressive ones. To me, this is the surest sign that someone is playing by the rules. It seems rather unlikely that someone could play every single GOTM and WOTM without ever once having a bad game.
This game was a great big reality check for me. Clearly, I still have much to learn, and even more clearly, I severely underestimated how good the new AI is when I launched this game.
Good luck to all.
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