Balbes
Instigator
(deleted - posted in the wrong thread. Moderator please remove this post)
WOTM 07 First Spoiler
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
fizbankovi
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 278
I would really like Erkon to post some more details about his game. Thx
Sure, what kind of details are you interested in? I can post some screenshots if you want? Something else?
spacemanmf
Stalwart
I've been doing ok in recent GOTMs/WOTMs but this was a bit of a non-starter.
Saw the discussion on settling on the bananas, saw the clams, thought long and hard about where to settle, settled in place, then regretted it for the rest of the short-lived game. I cursed my decision and cursed the fact that the GOTMs can be affected significantly by (more or less) a random throw of the dice.
I think it should be a settle in place for all games and then it takes the random element out. Settling in place here made poor use of the land but we weren't to know (and the gold near the bananas was an unknown but added bonus of the move).
Anyway, the game. I got 2 cities up, second to grab the horses, gold (x2) and fish, with wheat and bananas on a time-share. Hooked up the horses, started on my first immortal. Then...
Then Saladin declared war (out of nowhere), landing an archer on my horses. I had 3 or 4 warriors (but only one in the city near the horses). Splat. Game over. (I played cat and mouse for a while, even getting a settler out that I was already building. But Saladin was brutal and not for peace.)
Apart from the settling "error", my other main mistake was not researching bronze working early enough (i.e. before Saladin attacked) so I could have whipped an immortal before losing my horses, but even then I wouldn't have been able to defend my second city in time. I think I have played too many soft (i.e. on Noble) cultural conquest attempts recently (inspired by the quartet of current succession games) which has perhaps atrophied my battle-geared early game tactics. Or something.
But really my heart wasn't in it. Immortal on Warlords = no hope of winning for me (I can win on Monarch but seldom higher, especially on Warlords). We were boxed in by AIs who had nasty UUs. And I don't know what I did to Saladin, but he played as uncompromisingly as a warmongering human player.
However, having read the other spoilers, I am motivated to try again (having submitted my early conquest defeat), using some of the tactics mentioned. But for now, a dent to my pride, but hopefully not my global ranking (if I do OK in the next GOTM).
Saw the discussion on settling on the bananas, saw the clams, thought long and hard about where to settle, settled in place, then regretted it for the rest of the short-lived game. I cursed my decision and cursed the fact that the GOTMs can be affected significantly by (more or less) a random throw of the dice.
I think it should be a settle in place for all games and then it takes the random element out. Settling in place here made poor use of the land but we weren't to know (and the gold near the bananas was an unknown but added bonus of the move).
Anyway, the game. I got 2 cities up, second to grab the horses, gold (x2) and fish, with wheat and bananas on a time-share. Hooked up the horses, started on my first immortal. Then...
Then Saladin declared war (out of nowhere), landing an archer on my horses. I had 3 or 4 warriors (but only one in the city near the horses). Splat. Game over. (I played cat and mouse for a while, even getting a settler out that I was already building. But Saladin was brutal and not for peace.)
Apart from the settling "error", my other main mistake was not researching bronze working early enough (i.e. before Saladin attacked) so I could have whipped an immortal before losing my horses, but even then I wouldn't have been able to defend my second city in time. I think I have played too many soft (i.e. on Noble) cultural conquest attempts recently (inspired by the quartet of current succession games) which has perhaps atrophied my battle-geared early game tactics. Or something.
But really my heart wasn't in it. Immortal on Warlords = no hope of winning for me (I can win on Monarch but seldom higher, especially on Warlords). We were boxed in by AIs who had nasty UUs. And I don't know what I did to Saladin, but he played as uncompromisingly as a warmongering human player.
However, having read the other spoilers, I am motivated to try again (having submitted my early conquest defeat), using some of the tactics mentioned. But for now, a dent to my pride, but hopefully not my global ranking (if I do OK in the next GOTM).
AgedOne
Emperor
@spacemanmf
Out of interest, do you remember what year it was (roughly) that Saladin declared on you?
I also came up against the 'evil Saladin' in this game, and he was definitely not to be put off. While it would be generous of me to call it 'intelligent' of him, I was grimly amused at the way he attacked me first over the gold to the south, retired to heal, went quiet for a few turns, and then exploded out of the East to attack my city at that end. The scum! But it was really the sheer weight of numbers and never-ending supply of new units that did for me.
I've also tried this game again a few times, using the banana settlement and early attack strategies mentioned here. Fascinating! Big improvement on my original game, though not enough for me to call any of them heading for victory. More lessons learned, including "don't push your attack too far and get spread too thin" and "if they've got swordsmen, you're too late. Leave them alone".
Out of interest, do you remember what year it was (roughly) that Saladin declared on you?
I also came up against the 'evil Saladin' in this game, and he was definitely not to be put off. While it would be generous of me to call it 'intelligent' of him, I was grimly amused at the way he attacked me first over the gold to the south, retired to heal, went quiet for a few turns, and then exploded out of the East to attack my city at that end. The scum! But it was really the sheer weight of numbers and never-ending supply of new units that did for me.
I've also tried this game again a few times, using the banana settlement and early attack strategies mentioned here. Fascinating! Big improvement on my original game, though not enough for me to call any of them heading for victory. More lessons learned, including "don't push your attack too far and get spread too thin" and "if they've got swordsmen, you're too late. Leave them alone".
fizbankovi
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 278
Something in the spirit of "thats what my empire looked like when i had 2, 4 , 7 cities" and also some "i first captured his outer cities with mz 3 immortals, and then moved to the capitol" or "my pilliging party went in first to lure some of his units to the west, and then i atacked with my main force from the east.. etc..
also very important for me what u maneged to ask for some of ur peace treaties. (or if u did at all)
many thx!
also very important for me what u maneged to ask for some of ur peace treaties. (or if u did at all)
many thx!
Starting out we saw the sea resource and decided to settle on the bananas. That turned out to be even better than expected.
Researched AH, Mining, then Fishing for some health and food. I guess there's no health bonus on immortal? Then the wheel and finally Bronze Working in 2170BC.
Initial builds were worker, warrior, settler. I think we interrupted the warrior at size 3 to focus on the settler which was ready in 2530 and settled south on the coast to claim gold, corn, and horses. What nice land! At 500AD this town is still size 4 but turns out a respectable number of units and nothing else.
Meanwhile the capitol built a pair of workboats. Because the health bonus was used immediately I looked at them as giving essentially +4food. Plus some gold and we were getting a decent science rate.
The barbs killed a few of our units and interrupted some builds to focus on military early, but overall were just a nuisance.
I pulled off the Persian 2-turn Settler Trick in 1870. A warrior completed with an overflow of 7 hammers. Switch to settler and let the bonuses take over, next turn we can whip that settler for 2 citizens. Gee whiz! A 2-turn settler at 1870 for our 3rd town? To claim that western copper before Shaka or Caesar do?!? That was just too good to pass up. And I overflowed that into a 6-turn worker to boot. I felt like we were off to a solid start.
Research turned to Writing and Mysticism. We'll want open borders. Our fist 3xp Immortal appeared in 1630 ready to attack something. Mecca was the home of Buddhism and controlled great land, but Greece had settled Sparta on that plains hill and looked like it might claim copper someday if I didn't do something about it.
By 1330 we had 3 experienced Immortals on the scene and were ready to declare war on Alex. Sparta was only defended by 1 archer- our best chance. A retreater killed him, no casualties, take the gold and go on a pillaging mission. I really preferred to be attacking Saladin, so once every tile around Athens was pillaged for a big profit I just let Alex go. I didn't explore west of Athens around that lake for a long time and so didn't know what Ramses was up to.
From here it was the same strategy: capture a few towns, pillage everything, move on. We had a good income for all that and reached Alphabet in 955. Some civs didn't even have writing, so we were in a good trading position while our reputation held out. Immortals captured Mecca in 805. We took another on the coast and moved on. A great general appeared in this war, Jeanne d'Arc, Joan's sister I guess, who settled in Parsagadae by the horses.
In 640 Rome completed an Iron mine. No good, dow 'em, capture 2 towns, pillage everything, move on. At 500AD Caesar is still arounnd, controlling his capitol and 4 other towns, but we haven't seen a Praetorian.
In 520BC Persepolis completes the Great Lighthouse by whipping 4 citizens. It seemed like it might be worth it, would've been better with a Granary but we just never found time for it. Still no granary in the capitol at 500AD. Anyway, in 490 Mecca finished chopping and whipping the Temple of Artemis and in 475 Currency was learned. That's a lot of trade routes, our economy got a nice boost. I actually thought the Temple would give +100% to All trade routes everywhere, but now I know that's too good to be true. Still, the Temple of Artemis is kind of neat-o. Mecca did generate some gold. We got a scientist in Persepolis and had a 100% chance of Not getting a scientist here, and a free priest to boot. So, a market, some merchants, and we get a great priest with which to start a Golden Age. But not yet.
We gave in to Shaka's demands for tribute of Writing so something could be done about Hannibal who was running away in the GNP race. DoW Hannibal in 340BC, capture 4 workers. We were on a roll that sorta ended here. Hannibal stationed a spearman on the river iron hill, we miscalculated, we never took that dang tile even if we did pillage very nearly every other improvement and road in his large empire. And we captured Hippo, still defended by only archers and the home of Judaism, the religion of Carthage and Egypt. It had food, hills, a river, coast. I liked this town- a market, lots of shields, a barracks, the works.
But this was the only town of Hannibal's we took while he paid a high price to slaughter many of our units. Construction came in 310BC but didn't come into play in this war.
In 160BC Shaka DoW's us. Great, those impis are a pain but we could hold our border town. On the border of Carthage and Shaka we were getting double-whammied and were forced to make peace with Hannibal to focus on this. And Shaka had just finished the pyramids. In 80BC that prophet was born. I wanted to delay a golden age until we had Ulundi and the Pyramids and could do it as a police state. But Shaka was too tough. We took him down to 2 towns in the east and had to stop. His movement-promoted Impis ran through the jungle and stole our workers. Not once but twice. The Roman border created a funnel of doom outside Ulundi where swords etc killed our guys and threatened our holdings. General Leonidas was even born in Ulundi. Whatever. In 215AD we make peace for Code of Laws. We traded Construction to Ramses for Calendar and gold. We need to start our Golden Age to rebuild our forces. Caesar has Feudalism, we really need to mop up Saladin and Alex while they're still stuck on archers.
And that's what I did. Saladin became a vassal with 2 really lousy towns. Alex is going to be attacked any minute at 500AD. We've had 4 great generals, all settled. Ramses is solid but still our pal, Rome's culture grew to claim some of Shaka's iron I guess, and Hannibal is rebuilding and has the tech lead. And Macemen. We're one tech away from maces ourselves but can only research at 10%, this will continue to be interesting...
Researched AH, Mining, then Fishing for some health and food. I guess there's no health bonus on immortal? Then the wheel and finally Bronze Working in 2170BC.
Initial builds were worker, warrior, settler. I think we interrupted the warrior at size 3 to focus on the settler which was ready in 2530 and settled south on the coast to claim gold, corn, and horses. What nice land! At 500AD this town is still size 4 but turns out a respectable number of units and nothing else.
Meanwhile the capitol built a pair of workboats. Because the health bonus was used immediately I looked at them as giving essentially +4food. Plus some gold and we were getting a decent science rate.
The barbs killed a few of our units and interrupted some builds to focus on military early, but overall were just a nuisance.
I pulled off the Persian 2-turn Settler Trick in 1870. A warrior completed with an overflow of 7 hammers. Switch to settler and let the bonuses take over, next turn we can whip that settler for 2 citizens. Gee whiz! A 2-turn settler at 1870 for our 3rd town? To claim that western copper before Shaka or Caesar do?!? That was just too good to pass up. And I overflowed that into a 6-turn worker to boot. I felt like we were off to a solid start.
Research turned to Writing and Mysticism. We'll want open borders. Our fist 3xp Immortal appeared in 1630 ready to attack something. Mecca was the home of Buddhism and controlled great land, but Greece had settled Sparta on that plains hill and looked like it might claim copper someday if I didn't do something about it.
By 1330 we had 3 experienced Immortals on the scene and were ready to declare war on Alex. Sparta was only defended by 1 archer- our best chance. A retreater killed him, no casualties, take the gold and go on a pillaging mission. I really preferred to be attacking Saladin, so once every tile around Athens was pillaged for a big profit I just let Alex go. I didn't explore west of Athens around that lake for a long time and so didn't know what Ramses was up to.
From here it was the same strategy: capture a few towns, pillage everything, move on. We had a good income for all that and reached Alphabet in 955. Some civs didn't even have writing, so we were in a good trading position while our reputation held out. Immortals captured Mecca in 805. We took another on the coast and moved on. A great general appeared in this war, Jeanne d'Arc, Joan's sister I guess, who settled in Parsagadae by the horses.
In 640 Rome completed an Iron mine. No good, dow 'em, capture 2 towns, pillage everything, move on. At 500AD Caesar is still arounnd, controlling his capitol and 4 other towns, but we haven't seen a Praetorian.
In 520BC Persepolis completes the Great Lighthouse by whipping 4 citizens. It seemed like it might be worth it, would've been better with a Granary but we just never found time for it. Still no granary in the capitol at 500AD. Anyway, in 490 Mecca finished chopping and whipping the Temple of Artemis and in 475 Currency was learned. That's a lot of trade routes, our economy got a nice boost. I actually thought the Temple would give +100% to All trade routes everywhere, but now I know that's too good to be true. Still, the Temple of Artemis is kind of neat-o. Mecca did generate some gold. We got a scientist in Persepolis and had a 100% chance of Not getting a scientist here, and a free priest to boot. So, a market, some merchants, and we get a great priest with which to start a Golden Age. But not yet.
We gave in to Shaka's demands for tribute of Writing so something could be done about Hannibal who was running away in the GNP race. DoW Hannibal in 340BC, capture 4 workers. We were on a roll that sorta ended here. Hannibal stationed a spearman on the river iron hill, we miscalculated, we never took that dang tile even if we did pillage very nearly every other improvement and road in his large empire. And we captured Hippo, still defended by only archers and the home of Judaism, the religion of Carthage and Egypt. It had food, hills, a river, coast. I liked this town- a market, lots of shields, a barracks, the works.
But this was the only town of Hannibal's we took while he paid a high price to slaughter many of our units. Construction came in 310BC but didn't come into play in this war.
In 160BC Shaka DoW's us. Great, those impis are a pain but we could hold our border town. On the border of Carthage and Shaka we were getting double-whammied and were forced to make peace with Hannibal to focus on this. And Shaka had just finished the pyramids. In 80BC that prophet was born. I wanted to delay a golden age until we had Ulundi and the Pyramids and could do it as a police state. But Shaka was too tough. We took him down to 2 towns in the east and had to stop. His movement-promoted Impis ran through the jungle and stole our workers. Not once but twice. The Roman border created a funnel of doom outside Ulundi where swords etc killed our guys and threatened our holdings. General Leonidas was even born in Ulundi. Whatever. In 215AD we make peace for Code of Laws. We traded Construction to Ramses for Calendar and gold. We need to start our Golden Age to rebuild our forces. Caesar has Feudalism, we really need to mop up Saladin and Alex while they're still stuck on archers.
And that's what I did. Saladin became a vassal with 2 really lousy towns. Alex is going to be attacked any minute at 500AD. We've had 4 great generals, all settled. Ramses is solid but still our pal, Rome's culture grew to claim some of Shaka's iron I guess, and Hannibal is rebuilding and has the tech lead. And Macemen. We're one tech away from maces ourselves but can only research at 10%, this will continue to be interesting...
Attachments
Harbourboy
Deity
Nice work, Jove.
To add to the 'evil Saladin' discussion. He did declare war on me and I lost my Great General to him. But, unlike some of you, he did agree to my plead for peace. Not sure why.
To add to the 'evil Saladin' discussion. He did declare war on me and I lost my Great General to him. But, unlike some of you, he did agree to my plead for peace. Not sure why.
AgedOne
Emperor
@Harbourboy
One difference I can think of is the little matter of religion.
Saladin founded Buddhism in my game. I founded Hinduism, and was daft enough to switch to it after a while - in effect dancing around waving a flag in his face. After the war was going badly downhill, I did try abandoning my religion and shouting 'We're all atheists here!' at him. Strangely it had little effect.
I notice you kept well out of the religious side in your game. I can't see any mention of it in spacemanmf's game, but that might be a good question:
@spacemanmf
Were Saladin and yourself different religions?
One difference I can think of is the little matter of religion.
Saladin founded Buddhism in my game. I founded Hinduism, and was daft enough to switch to it after a while - in effect dancing around waving a flag in his face. After the war was going badly downhill, I did try abandoning my religion and shouting 'We're all atheists here!' at him. Strangely it had little effect.
I notice you kept well out of the religious side in your game. I can't see any mention of it in spacemanmf's game, but that might be a good question:
@spacemanmf
Were Saladin and yourself different religions?
Harbourboy
Deity
Yes, I was too scared of my potential immortal enemies to go anywhere near a religion!
spacemanmf
Stalwart
AgedOne:
That's just it. I stayed well clear of any religion. I had open borders with everyone to encourage peace.
I was killed in 385BC. Looking at my replay, he declared in 1840BC. Just had no chance.
He was clever with me too. Taking me when I was outnumbered then waiting to regroup, stealing my last remaining worker when the opportunity was there.
That's just it. I stayed well clear of any religion. I had open borders with everyone to encourage peace.
I was killed in 385BC. Looking at my replay, he declared in 1840BC. Just had no chance.
He was clever with me too. Taking me when I was outnumbered then waiting to regroup, stealing my last remaining worker when the opportunity was there.
shyuhe
Deity
This is my first WOTM that I'm planning on finishing, be it a win or loss. I had a good start (DOW'ed Saladin and took two cities, razed one and reduced him to some jungle junk). I took a city from Alex next, but my economy came to a grinding halt so I stopped warring. I then went for COL, whipped courthouses and started going towards liberalism. Until I realized I had skipped construction 
I'm researching construction now (after having finished CS already) at about 100 AD. Augustus has too much on his hands - I hope it's not me or this may be the end of my run. If it's Shaka, then I think I have a shot at winning this game, even though Hannibal is the handsdown tech leader right now.
In hindsight, I should have just done an immortal rush for conquest! I think it's very possible to take out all of the southern civs before they'll get any metal, or at least deny them metal. Then you just have to block the borders and kill the north at your leisure...
I'm researching construction now (after having finished CS already) at about 100 AD. Augustus has too much on his hands - I hope it's not me or this may be the end of my run. If it's Shaka, then I think I have a shot at winning this game, even though Hannibal is the handsdown tech leader right now.In hindsight, I should have just done an immortal rush for conquest! I think it's very possible to take out all of the southern civs before they'll get any metal, or at least deny them metal. Then you just have to block the borders and kill the north at your leisure...
Harbourboy
Deity
Well, I am fairly chuffed that at 500 AD I am still there. Only 5 cities (annoying as I won't be able to build any of those wonders that need 6 prerequisite buildings) but still in play, so I will still have something to write about in the final spoiler.
The Mad Swede
Chieftain
After trying out RoberttheBruce's nice practice map and almost winning I thought this one might be possible.
I settled on bananas. I thought that was a good move. Got to whipping things really early and was doing well. Then Alexander attacked in 1600AD. I have never had an AI attack that early before. I lost my capital soon after.
Then I tried again. Built a bunch of Immortals and went after Saladin. Apparently Immortals are completely useless however and I had no chance.
I found this map completely unplayable and quit in disgust. Not fun at all.
I cannot understand how anyone has had any success on this map. When I attacked Saladin he had 3 archers, 1 axeman and spearman in his capital. Similar story in other cities. There is no way Immortals can contend with that.
I settled on bananas. I thought that was a good move. Got to whipping things really early and was doing well. Then Alexander attacked in 1600AD. I have never had an AI attack that early before. I lost my capital soon after.
Then I tried again. Built a bunch of Immortals and went after Saladin. Apparently Immortals are completely useless however and I had no chance.
I found this map completely unplayable and quit in disgust. Not fun at all.
I cannot understand how anyone has had any success on this map. When I attacked Saladin he had 3 archers, 1 axeman and spearman in his capital. Similar story in other cities. There is no way Immortals can contend with that.
After trying out RoberttheBruce's nice practice map and almost winning I thought this one might be possible.
I settled on bananas. I thought that was a good move. Got to whipping things really early and was doing well. Then Alexander attacked in 1600AD. I have never had an AI attack that early before. I lost my capital soon after.
Then I tried again. Built a bunch of Immortals and went after Saladin. Apparently Immortals are completely useless however and I had no chance.
I found this map completely unplayable and quit in disgust. Not fun at all.
I cannot understand how anyone has had any success on this map. When I attacked Saladin he had 3 archers, 1 axeman and spearman in his capital. Similar story in other cities. There is no way Immortals can contend with that.
Did you build more than one settler?
Did you build more than one worker?
When did you attack?
Harbourboy
Deity
MadSwede, that is the beauty of these games of the month. By seeing what other people have done, we can learn things that we would otherwise have never thought were possible.
As an answer to your question, my relative "success" (very relative - in that I survived into the AD years) was based on:
- not choosing any religions
- getting Stonehenge up quickly for borders
- giving in to all demands for tribute
- beelining for expensive techs and then selling them to the highest bidder
- building as many units as possible
- not attacking anybody ever
Clearly some of these tactics are useless for actually winning (especially the last one) but they have been very useful in surviving this far.
As an answer to your question, my relative "success" (very relative - in that I survived into the AD years) was based on:
- not choosing any religions
- getting Stonehenge up quickly for borders
- giving in to all demands for tribute
- beelining for expensive techs and then selling them to the highest bidder
- building as many units as possible
- not attacking anybody ever
Clearly some of these tactics are useless for actually winning (especially the last one) but they have been very useful in surviving this far.
The Mad Swede
Chieftain
No.
Yes. Two I think. I also built 2 workboats.
I don't remember, but it was early. Around 1000BC I suppose.
I was a bit pissed off yesterday when I wrote the post and I apologize if I sounded angry. I will try once more. I still can't believe some people were able to beat Saladin as easy as they did.
We have a similar start, although I attacked much earlier. I had four immortals in my initial attack. I wonder why we have 600 years difference. If you look at my production list in my spoiler, you can see when I switch over to military production. Settler, workers and work boats are not listed. How does it match your unit production?
The Mad Swede
Chieftain
I didn't have autolog on, but I had a look at an autosave and I seem to have attacked in 925BC. I remember building a granary and a barracks as well as attacking with one more Immortal, otherwise our starts are similar. Of course, you are a way better player so you might have managed the whip a bit better.
killercane
Deity
Challenger, Spacerace
I founded on the bananas (gold being a nice bonus), and set research to get some Immortals going. The only lamb amongst the wolves was Saladin, who was pretty close by. Yet he did not end up being the first target once we found Greece did not have immediate metal to build phalanxes. Initial builds were a couple of workers, barracks, settler. The reason being that we needed to road to opponents, and connect these resources since we had a health problem from no freshwater.
3580- Hinduism is founded in Thebes
3370- Carthage gets Buddhism
3160- Shaka adopts slavery and can build those darn Impi. Not good.
After researching AH, it was obvious that a second city needed to be founded, as border expansion would not get them in time. There was simply no good place to put it, so we founded on the horses. This site could borrow the wheat once a fishing boat was in place, work cottages for later use by the capital, work both the gold hills for city maintenance/research, and finally produce nothing but military and a library forever. The two workers roaded towards Alex and put in a good road network around the capital. I almost always move workers one turn, road, stop the road, and then move them into place (where they were originally going) for maximum efficiency. This can translate into many extra worker moves in the long run.
2230- Pasargadae founded
2200- adopt slavery
1480- Declare war on Alex.
I try to get twice the number of troops that I need, and attack the capital first. In this case, I wanted 6 Immos, and to attack as fast as possible, figuring on 3 archers in the capital. Roads were present all the way to Greece for any reinforcements. To build as many immos as possible in as short a time as possible, I used slavery, and did not build any workboats until the Immos were ready. Workboats are not cheap, and workers are more useful anyway.
1450- Shaka declares on me!
Fortunately he only sends 2 archers, and these are quickly mopped up. If he had ever connected copper, it was easy to pillage from our starting location.
1420- Athens is taken.
1270- Great General who becomes a specialist in Persepolis.
1180- Nobamba captured from Zulu and Sparta from Greeks. Somewhere in here I gave the Greeks peace.
970- Declare on Saladin and capture Mecca the next turn.
925- Peace with Shaka the Wolf.
From here on out it was mainly fighting barbs (we exchanged cities), and building up the empire. The 3 gold hills allowed for more expansion than was otherwise possible while still keeping research up. The reason to go to war early is to have more land/research potential and hamper the AI bonuses @ Immortal so that you can keep up in tech. Of course this is my strategy, I would like to see if peaceful settling first and later war speeds the tech pace for a faster spaceship later. The drawback of this approach is later war incurs quite some war weariness and obsoletes the nice UU. I missed out on Liberalism and the Oracle (Saladin built it right before I declared, and I tried to get a more expensive tech for Lib and lost out to Rome); perhaps Saladin would have been the better first target.
@Mad Swede- If I were giving advice, I would say build troops early and often when you have a nice early UU and are on higher difficulty. Off the top of my head, this was true in the Deity Inca game and this one. This allows you quite some leeway to react to what the quasi-improved AI throws at you. The AI cannot stop you if you are close, build 6-8 chariots and maybe an axe and put them out of commission! With aggressive AI so close, there is no need for granaries/libraries/workboats until they are gone and you have more room (IMO).
I founded on the bananas (gold being a nice bonus), and set research to get some Immortals going. The only lamb amongst the wolves was Saladin, who was pretty close by. Yet he did not end up being the first target once we found Greece did not have immediate metal to build phalanxes. Initial builds were a couple of workers, barracks, settler. The reason being that we needed to road to opponents, and connect these resources since we had a health problem from no freshwater.
3580- Hinduism is founded in Thebes
3370- Carthage gets Buddhism
3160- Shaka adopts slavery and can build those darn Impi. Not good.
After researching AH, it was obvious that a second city needed to be founded, as border expansion would not get them in time. There was simply no good place to put it, so we founded on the horses. This site could borrow the wheat once a fishing boat was in place, work cottages for later use by the capital, work both the gold hills for city maintenance/research, and finally produce nothing but military and a library forever. The two workers roaded towards Alex and put in a good road network around the capital. I almost always move workers one turn, road, stop the road, and then move them into place (where they were originally going) for maximum efficiency. This can translate into many extra worker moves in the long run.
2230- Pasargadae founded
2200- adopt slavery
1480- Declare war on Alex.
I try to get twice the number of troops that I need, and attack the capital first. In this case, I wanted 6 Immos, and to attack as fast as possible, figuring on 3 archers in the capital. Roads were present all the way to Greece for any reinforcements. To build as many immos as possible in as short a time as possible, I used slavery, and did not build any workboats until the Immos were ready. Workboats are not cheap, and workers are more useful anyway.
1450- Shaka declares on me!
Fortunately he only sends 2 archers, and these are quickly mopped up. If he had ever connected copper, it was easy to pillage from our starting location.
1420- Athens is taken.
1270- Great General who becomes a specialist in Persepolis.
1180- Nobamba captured from Zulu and Sparta from Greeks. Somewhere in here I gave the Greeks peace.
970- Declare on Saladin and capture Mecca the next turn.
925- Peace with Shaka the Wolf.
From here on out it was mainly fighting barbs (we exchanged cities), and building up the empire. The 3 gold hills allowed for more expansion than was otherwise possible while still keeping research up. The reason to go to war early is to have more land/research potential and hamper the AI bonuses @ Immortal so that you can keep up in tech. Of course this is my strategy, I would like to see if peaceful settling first and later war speeds the tech pace for a faster spaceship later. The drawback of this approach is later war incurs quite some war weariness and obsoletes the nice UU. I missed out on Liberalism and the Oracle (Saladin built it right before I declared, and I tried to get a more expensive tech for Lib and lost out to Rome); perhaps Saladin would have been the better first target.
@Mad Swede- If I were giving advice, I would say build troops early and often when you have a nice early UU and are on higher difficulty. Off the top of my head, this was true in the Deity Inca game and this one. This allows you quite some leeway to react to what the quasi-improved AI throws at you. The AI cannot stop you if you are close, build 6-8 chariots and maybe an axe and put them out of commission! With aggressive AI so close, there is no need for granaries/libraries/workboats until they are gone and you have more room (IMO).
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