WOTM 34 Final Spoiler

[babybluepants]

WOTM 34 Final Spoiler

So how did your game go after 1AD? Please tell everyone and discuss it in this thread, subject to...

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[Sleepless]

Haven't managed to play a GOTm for a while but couldn't resist this one. Not much to say about the game. The original aim was to play totally friendly and not war with anyone and go for space. Mostly worked apart from a late war with Alex.

Nearly failed at the beginning when I noticed how close Hatty was with her capital. Few wonders built solved that problem eventually and both cities were able to use all their BFC.

So eventually got to space in 1770. Failed a bit with the space elevator. Had a GE to help build it and forgot you needed satellites as well as robotics. So settled him instead. Might have saved a few turns on my finish.

Fun game thankyou babybluepants.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

I played a peaceful game (as did all the AI) and went for a cultural victory. I probably waited too long to switch to 100% culture, in 820, after researching Representation. But by that stage, I was not only still running a surplus, but my specialists were generating a moderate number of beakers, so my science didn't completely stagnate. Along the way to victory, I built Notre Dame, the Sistine Chapel, National Epic, the Taj Mahal, and the Globe Theater (for the extra artists it let me assign) in Cordoba. Cairo got Versailles, the Dai Miao, and--in 1510, just because it was still available and I'd built all the other culture building--the Colossus.

I culture-bombed one GA in Cairo and six in Baghdad (one more than I needed, which cost me a turn or two!) to achieve a cultural victory in 1525, with 25,486 points.

Although I followed the instructions and kept Islam as my state religion for the whole game, I never did get it to spread to Cairo or Baghdad! With all the other religions I'd founded there, the couple of missionaries I sent there from Cordoba failed to spread the faith!

Hatty might have caused trouble for me, starting so close to my eastern borders, but she never went beyond "annoyed" status. And once I switched to a culture economy, her borders melted away. Thebes was an island capital surrounded by my territory by the end of the game! The only other diplomatic mistake I made early in the game was to agree to cut off relations with Mansu Musa. He refused to talk to me for a long, long time after that, even after he had converted to Islam and allegedly become pleased with me, again. That delayed my galleys convoying missionaries between my cities, for a while.

 

[lymond]

Ha...looks like you beat me by 1 turn on Culture Marley as I finished in 1530. Granted I popped a GS in Cairo instead of a GA at almost 90% odds that would have finished my game several turns earlier. That always seems to happen - always getting the wrong GP at the wrong time no matter how many you run. In fact, I had poor luck overall in getting out GAs in the latter part of the game despite running many in Cordoba. Plus, any that I did get had to be shipped over to the other cities. I still expect to see much earlier culture wins though.

Hindsight is always a beeootch. Shortly after I completed the game and realizing that I had been generating copious amounts of gold for much of the game, it dawned on me that I should have run US for a while and simply bought up most of the culture buildings instead of slow building most. Really stupid of me. I sat there with an enormous tech lead and running 100% science forever when I could have actually used the gold for something useful in relation to the VC. I also waited to long to up the culture slider although I do progressively raise it even before I Libbed BIO. IMO BIO was not even really needed. Just get to Lib and use free speech and raise the slider. The AIs were never an issue and I converted them all to Islam.

As for the opening, I sat there for several minutes staring at the screen and wondering what was the best use for the GE and GP. I finally decided to just settle both, which I think was the right call. Rushing Spiral does nothing in the short term. Rush Henge is viable for quick border pops but seems a waste for a GE. Plus, with the settled GE and GP, I finished Henge rather quickly anyway. The extra gold and beakers helped me ultimately found every religion in the game and the settled GPs only got better when I finished the Mids.

I built a worker in Cordoba, one in Cairo and 2 in Baghdad and cottaged up the 2 eastern cities. As soon as I had Mono I start spreading Islam to AC and Alex and quickly switched them to Islam. Alex got to Friendly pretty quickly, but AC diplo was always quite a bit lower which included the border hit. Mehmed was the only real concern the whole game as he made some unreasonable demands and received the wrong religion first off.

Then it was pretty much a building game of getting in a bunch of wonders, religious and culture buildings. I waited to sailing and MC to send a galley/tireme to Cordoba to ferry over 2 Islam mishes. The tireme was to protect the galley as it would be devastating to lose the mishes especially since to took FOREVER to get the boats around. Interestingly, I never saw a barb galley the entire game. Oh well. Both Islam mishes were successful, thank goodness. Once I had Islam in Cairo/Baghdad, I quickly convert Hatty, Cyrus and Hannibal. All in all though, the hammers on mishes were probably a waste. Mansa switched religion like 3 or 4 times on his own and ended in Islam. I had closed borders with him much of the game due to Hanny's hatred of him, which did not abate much even when they were both in Islam. Only wars were Hanny/Mansa and Hanny/Hatty, but they came to nothing. I did not think of war at all but kept my army reasonable in all cities. Barbs were never an issue either.

A rather easy game but very enjoyable. I just know I could have finished a culture win much earlier than I did and will probably try it again.

 

[zamint3]

Camel Archers rock

Finished Hannibal (vassal) and Mansu last, I could not bring Mansu to accept vassalage!??

I really liked the 3 city concept, I would like to try it on a higher difficulty level, this one was a bit too easy.

 

[adrianj]

I really enjoyed this game. First spoiler is here.

In 250 AD Oxford Uni is built. After beelining up to Physics (aided by 5 GS bulbs), I take Radio from Liberalism in 640 AD. Meanwhile I’m trying to produce a GE to rush the UN, thanks to Mids+HG+engineer specialist running in Cairo. But it seems I am teching too fast for it to arrive in time. I take a gamble and assign a bunch of other specialists to speed things along, and to my relief a GE is born. In 900 AD the UN is completed.

Alas, I do not win on the first vote, with Hatty and Cyrus abstaining. Cyrus I had converted to Islam, but he converts back 1 turn before the vote! I’m working on spreading Islam to Hatty as well as back up. Mehmed is my opponent, who is running his founded religion of Christianity. I’m surprised at how quickly the votes come up - it seems only 4 turns or so. I miss the second vote as well because Cyrus was still on his 5 turn cool down. But in 1100 AD I win the 3rd vote, claiming victory

Thanks Babybluepants for a most enjoyable scenario.

 

[srad]

Space 1735AD

* Warrior rushed Hatty (delayed worker a bit but I think it was a good move; Hatty founded Buddhism and the culture pressure would have been a problem).
* Stonehenge and GW without stone in capital
* Cottaged capital and Baghdad; farmed Cairo as GP farm


1000BC:

Spoiler :

1AD:

Spoiler :

1000AD:

Spoiler :

My reference (Obormot's BOTM17):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8007795&postcount=22

 

[HuginogMunin]

It was a fun game to play. No first spoiler.

Not everything went perfectly, but all in all I think it's a good diplo date. I settled both the GP and the GE, and after thinking about it for a while, my first build in all three cities was a Worker. The capitol built Stonehenge early, both because there wasn't much to build, and since I wanted the culture in my two other cities. (It seemed easier to build Stonehenge in the capitol than two Monuments in the other cities!) Usually I go for an early Alphabet (even though its less good on lower difficulty levels), but this time I decided to do Sailing first. In retrospect I doubt it was a correct decision.

My focus was always research (which is always most important in fast diplo games), and at the same time keep relations as high as possible. That means giving away resources whenever you don't need them yourself, even if it is just for 10 turns. It also means paying attention to "worst enemies", which is a bit cumbersome pre-BtS, unless I have overlooked an option to display this info more easily. In the end I had a +3 tech relation bonus with four of the AI's, and even +4 with Hannibal.

I used Oracle for Education and saved Liberalism for Radio. My first GP made a Shrine. I hoped to get some free early spreading to help diplo relations, but throughout the game it only spread to civs I had already converted using missionaries. Therefore it would have been better to just settle it. I did not pop a Great Scientist until I was researching Electricity, and at that time it's better to use it for bulbing than an Academy. Actually I poped a second GS while researching Mass Media, wich I used to build the Academy. Not that it helped anything, but nothing else would have helped since I had just 4 turns of research left.

My first missionary converted Caesar. I took a chance with the second sending him towards Alex (there were just a few fogged tiles), but ofc is was killed by a Barb Warrior. My third was escorted to Baghdad, where it failed. In other words, it took quite some time before I spread Islam even to my own two cities. My first two attemts at spreading Islam to Egypt also failed. But using some late game missionary focus + some bribes, I managed to convert everyone to Islam but Mehmed (he was going to be my opponent, but just in case I spread Islam to his two biggest cities, but even so he refused to convert).

In the end I was friendly with Alex Caeser, Cyrus and Hannibal (from +11 to +14 or so) and pleased with the rest (Mansa +8, Hat +9, Mehmed +5). I had calculated this would be enough to win the diplo vote (first vote). As it turned out, everyone voted for me (except Mehmed ofc).

@adrianj: I believe voting comes every 4 turns on Normal speed. I used to know these things for sure, but I might have forgotten something.

Thanks to Babybluepants for a different kind of challenge. That's always nice!

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

I did culture win in around 1750.
In the end the ais ganged up on me, except for Caesar (I build shrine)

at start I attacked Hatty many times and failed, before axes. This delayed me a lot. I established sea transports of GP from cordoba as soon as I realised what the map is.
That was when I decided to play it safely and go for culture win instead of trying to kill off AIs, it seemed to risky.

I got most of the wonders.

Thanks, this scenario was some of the greatest fun I ever had among civilization games

 

[Mitchum]

Space 1685

My game was very similar to srad's game. I also warrior rushed Hatty, stealing 2 workers in the process. I built SH in the capital but failed on the GW by 3 turns IIRC. I cottaged the capital and Cairo and farmed Baghdad (GP Farm). I ran a total of 3 Golden Ages (Taj Mahal + 2 more). I managed my overflow and chops such that I finished the SS Life Support in 1 turn after learning Ecology, which means that research was the critical path the whole game.

@ HuginogMunin Oracled Education!?! I'm impressed.

@bbp Thanks for the fun game. For a MM maniac like me, only having 3 cities to tend to was very refreshing. Usually, near the middle/end of the game, I get lazy and make a lot of silly mistakes. This time, I checked all 3 cities just about every turn because I could...

 

[Holy Cheese]

Cultural Victory 1908 AD

Very slow cultural victory. I declared on Hatty very early on, and that war dragged on for ages before I wiped her out, setting me back a bit.

Spent the rest of the game either building culture buildings or culture, in between being savagely attacked by various AI in turn. With each war I had to change civics and draft like mad to survive, then rebuild again.

Very enjoyable game!

Thanks
Jack

 

[srad]

Space 1685

My game was very similar to srad's game. I also warrior rushed Hatty, stealing 2 workers in the process.

That's really fast!

1. Was your first GP a GS -> Academy?
2. Did you build workers first in Cairo, Baghdad and then warriors to rush Hatty? (I switched to warriors after meeting Hatty)


I finished the engine and the life support 3 turns after Eco; could have saved a turn or two with chopping but there are still some turns missing regarding your game. I noticed in my game that a switched probably to late to representation and maybe I could have chosen a smarter tech path ... I'll have a look in your save when the results are published.

 

[Fluroscent]

Space 1685

That's really fast!

Not good enough though

My game was very strong at 1AD. Had just begun working the final cottage. Farmed first then converted to cottages on ALL non-hill non-specials.
But if someone played a game similar they will most likely beat mine since I made two huge errors:

-I was putting beakers into Scimeth, intending to cancel and finish later. Forgot to cancel and lost GLib+7 monastaries! Probably a good 15 turns before I needed to...

-Forgot to check AI progress and lost Liberalism to Mehmed . I thought I was safe to take plastics.. Should have takes Assembly Line or Industrialism.

 

[Mitchum]

That's really fast!

1. Was your first GP a GS -> Academy?
2. Did you build workers first in Cairo, Baghdad and then warriors to rush Hatty? (I switched to warriors after meeting Hatty)

1. I had bad luck with great people, popping 4 Great Prophets before finally getting a GS and an Academy in 500 AD.

2. I built workers first in all three cities. I let them finish before building warriors to rush Hatty.

By looking at your screen shots, you were ahead at 1 AD. We'll have to wait for the replay tool to see what the difference was.

@ Fluroscent, what was your final date? I noticed that you had a very early Oxford, which I'm sure helped your early science rate. Also, when did you have an Academy in your capital?

 

[srad]

That's interesting. My second GP was a GS for academy. So if you say my game looks good at 1AD then I really did something wrong mid-game.

Either my tech-path was not smart and/or the late representation switch. Or something I don't see.

 

[Mitchum]

Either my tech-path was not smart and/or the late representation switch. Or something I don't see.

If I had to guess, I would say that the difference in our games came from tech trading. What I did to close the gap was pick two “wing men” to coddle and guide, one from the South Shore (Mansa Musa) and one from the North Shore (Augustus Caesar). I bolstered their economies. I traded my excess resources to them. I gave them techs for little or no cash. Because of this, I got some mid-to-late-game techs from them, including Democracy, Rifling, Steel, Railroads, Combustion and Plastics. I suspect that this easily shaved off ~20 turns of research.

Since this was a beaker-limited game, I would expect someone that gets both an early Academy and Oxford and leverages late-game tech trading should be able to beat both of our dates. And that someone is Fluroscent...

 

[srad]

Ähm, ok, I got The Wheel with tech trading ... I just missed to support an AI.

 

[Mitchum]

Ähm, ok, I got The Wheel with tech trading ... I just missed to support an AI.

We started with The Wheel, but I get the idea. How late did you research Alphabet? You should have been able to get some other early-game techs like IW, Masonry, Fishing, etc. as well...

I assume that after the very early stages of the game, you didn't get a single tech from the AI and were #1 in score by a long way. In my game, both MM and AC were ahead of me on the leader board with about 50 turns to play and were pulling ahead in score every turn... So I REALLY propped these two up to make these late-game tech trades possible. I knew that I could out build them in the end, even if I had to resort to pillaging Aluminum and what not at the end (which wasn't necessary).

I'm interested to hear more about how Fluroscent beat us (and by how much).

 

[Fluroscent]

I don't remember the exact date, but it was closer to 1650AD than 1700AD.
From memory, I built worker first in all three, then SH in capital, then a warrior in all cities while waiting for techs to enable infrastructure (forgot exact path, but alpha pretty late = after sailing/mono/math at least). Axed Hatty and gained a small amount of workers, and some nice pillaging to make up for the war costs. Oracled CS (debated Education instead, but decided to part bulb it instead)
1st GP was a prophet in Cordoba, settled. 2nd was GS from Baghdad, bulbed into Education. 3rd a GS for academy in Cordoba. Then a few more prophets also settled.
Built Pyramids without stone, mostly from lack of other builds available. IIRC, GLib was also built without marble. Also built ToA in Cairo.

I got Monarchy and Construction in trades, only by delaying them forever. Each would have been a 1 turn tech when I traded for them.

Of other notable things I remember was teching Democracy for a Emancipation spree to grow cottages, and delaying Computers in favor of Rocketry to balance the production deficit vs tech speed lategame.

I regret not posting earlier when it was still in clear memory, but I was a bit annoyed at wasting ~8k beakers on missing liberalism..

 

[srad]

Yes I got IW as far as I remember. But nothing bigger. You were much smarter and I enjoyed my lead in the scoreboard

I'm also interested what Fluroscent did