Would some vets mind posting some build orders?

[Monthar]

You might want to double check this before trying it. I don't know about post patch, but I know prepatch when I built barracks in all cities then built the military national wonder the wonder got destroyed when I sold one of my barracks. In a later game I built it again, but the wonder also got destroyed when I founded a new city. So unless the patch changed something you should hold off on building national wonders until after you Rex.

If you were still in the process of building it when you annexed or built a city, it immediately stops building it. I have never seen a national wonder get destroyed because I built/annexed a new city after it was completed, nor from selling the buildings required to build it.

See attached screenshot and saved game for proof. In these it's just the National College (reqs libraries) and National Epic (reqs monuments) in the capital. I built these two before building my first settler in this game. Also I sold the library and monument and ran one more turn to get the attached saved game file as further proof.

Spoiler :

I have now restarted that game to build the barracks and heroic epic then sell the barracks just to get you more proof.

Edit: Here's the screenshot and save with the Heroic Epic after selling the barracks.

Spoiler :

This is from a post-patch game. However, pre-patch I would build national wonders before expanding too far (just the capital or just the first wave of settlers) and didn't lose them from having new cities without their prereq building. I didn't lose the Heroic Epic when I sold the barracks pre-patch.

 

[Misterboy]

Basic game plans post-patch:

National College First

- Main line: Scout -> Worker -> Library -> National College. Tech order is either Pottery -> Writing OR luxury you settled -> Writing. Latter tech order will require a build between Worker and Library. First 250 goes to a Maritime. Second 250 goes to a Maritime. Maritime > Settlers in the early game, even if you aren't Siam, because the makes Settlers build much faster.

- Library rush variant: as above, but rush buy the Library with . I can't see why you'd forego in the capital given a choice, but sometimes there are no Maritimes.

- City state rush variant: Warrior -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Library -> National College, otherwise as above. Puppet the CS until you complete the NC, then annex the CS and use it as a Settler pump. CS's luxury offsets the Happiness hit. Make sure two of your four Warriors have between 5 and 9 XP from barbs/Worker theft so they can grab a heal promotion. (Attack from rough terrain. Next turn promo becomes available. Attack again, then heal.) Should not sustain losses if executed properly.

ICS

Main line: Scout -> Settler -> Settler -> Settler... Tech your luxuries, then Construction for Colosseums. Steal Workers with the Warrior and/or Scout.

2/1 tile variant: Warrior -> Settler -> Settler -> Settler... As above, but build a Warrior since it will finish as the city grows to size 2.

Worker gambit: Scout -> Scout -> Scout -> Settler -> Settler -> Settler... A brave Deity opening. Scouts are used for aggressive Worker theft. Yields up many improved tiles very early on, at the risk of getting overrun by multiple angry opponents.

Iron rush

Main line: Warrior -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Settler. Beeline Iron Working. Warriors explore and steal Workers. Settler is used to settle iron. Some is used to upgrade the Warriors to Swords. The remainder can be spent on a Maritime or multiple Research Agreements for quick Rifling. If you go the RA route, you need to build the National College to clear Classical. Two rounds of RAs should get Rifles if you "manage" them properly. (You can leverage AIs' research of Philosophy if you want on Deity, and never bother pushing past Writing.)

Babylon Iron rush: Same build order, but beeline Writing, build an Academy, tech your luxuries and then take Iron Working. Delays the acquisition of IW by only a few turns.

GREAT post! Thank you!

 

[WeaselSlapper]

If you were still in the process of building it when you annexed or built a city, it immediately stops building it. I have never seen a national wonder get destroyed because I built/annexed a new city after it was completed, nor from selling the buildings required to build it.

See attached screenshot and saved game for proof. In these it's just the National College (reqs libraries) and National Epic (reqs monuments) in the capital. I built these two before building my first settler in this game. Also I sold the library and monument and ran one more turn to get the attached saved game file as further proof.

Spoiler :

I have now restarted that game to build the barracks and heroic epic then sell the barracks just to get you more proof.

Edit: Here's the screenshot and save with the Heroic Epic after selling the barracks.

Spoiler :

This is from a post-patch game. However, pre-patch I would build national wonders before expanding too far (just the capital or just the first wave of settlers) and didn't lose them from having new cities without their prereq building. I didn't lose the Heroic Epic when I sold the barracks pre-patch.

Then they probably changed it in the patch. Like I said my experience was pre patch

 

[Monthar]

Then they probably changed it in the patch. Like I said my experience was pre patch

As I stated in that last paragraph, I was selling the barracks after building the Heroic Epic and building the other national wonders before I finished expanding before the patch without the problems you mentioned.

... However, pre-patch I would build national wonders before expanding too far (just the capital or just the first wave of settlers) and didn't lose them from having new cities without their prereq building. I didn't lose the Heroic Epic when I sold the barracks pre-patch.

Irregardless of any problems with this strategy some folks might have had pre-patch, it does work just as well for me post patch as it did for me pre-patch.

 

[hellboy909]

Plus if you build a barracks in all cities, you can then build the heroic national wonder in your main military production city to have all the units built/bought there gain an additional +15% strength. Once this national wonder is built you can sell the barracks off in all the other cities.

Wow, thanks for reminding me of that! I've been leaving those gold sucking barracks in every city after I build them for the HE. I completely forgot you can sell buildings now. DOH!

 

[generalwar]

Plus if you build a barracks in all cities, you can then build the heroic national wonder in your main military production city to have all the units built/bought there gain an additional +15% strength. Once this national wonder is built you can sell the barracks off in all the other cities. Then this one city will be giving you stronger and more experienced troops, from the heroic epic, barracks, armory, etc.

You can do the same thing for all the other national wonders that you don't really want to pay the maintenance on their prereqs. That is build the required regular building in every controlled city (puppets don't count), build the national wonder, then sell the required building. Then you only pay maintenance on those buildings long enough to get the national wonder.

I have never used building sale so far, because I haven't build any barracks post patch and I build only what I need. It's strange to me to sell buildings, can't get used to it.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Would some of you *also* mind contributing to this relatively important thread?
Expert opinions given & revealed on that spreadsheet will become very handy later.

 

[RosieJones]

Basic game plans post-patch:

National College First

- Main line: Scout -> Worker -> Library -> National College. Tech order is either Pottery -> Writing OR luxury you settled -> Writing. Latter tech order will require a build between Worker and Library. First 250 goes to a Maritime. Second 250 goes to a Maritime. Maritime > Settlers in the early game, even if you aren't Siam, because the makes Settlers build much faster.

- Library rush variant: as above, but rush buy the Library with . I can't see why you'd forego in the capital given a choice, but sometimes there are no Maritimes.

- City state rush variant: Warrior -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Library -> National College, otherwise as above. Puppet the CS until you complete the NC, then annex the CS and use it as a Settler pump. CS's luxury offsets the Happiness hit. Make sure two of your four Warriors have between 5 and 9 XP from barbs/Worker theft so they can grab a heal promotion. (Attack from rough terrain. Next turn promo becomes available. Attack again, then heal.) Should not sustain losses if executed properly.

ICS

Main line: Scout -> Settler -> Settler -> Settler... Tech your luxuries, then Construction for Colosseums. Steal Workers with the Warrior and/or Scout.

2/1 tile variant: Warrior -> Settler -> Settler -> Settler... As above, but build a Warrior since it will finish as the city grows to size 2.

Worker gambit: Scout -> Scout -> Scout -> Settler -> Settler -> Settler... A brave Deity opening. Scouts are used for aggressive Worker theft. Yields up many improved tiles very early on, at the risk of getting overrun by multiple angry opponents.

Iron rush

Main line: Warrior -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Settler. Beeline Iron Working. Warriors explore and steal Workers. Settler is used to settle iron. Some is used to upgrade the Warriors to Swords. The remainder can be spent on a Maritime or multiple Research Agreements for quick Rifling. If you go the RA route, you need to build the National College to clear Classical. Two rounds of RAs should get Rifles if you "manage" them properly. (You can leverage AIs' research of Philosophy if you want on Deity, and never bother pushing past Writing.)

Babylon Iron rush: Same build order, but beeline Writing, build an Academy, tech your luxuries and then take Iron Working. Delays the acquisition of IW by only a few turns.

Great post: question about policies though. Do you save for patronage? If not, and you use as they come...how deep do you go in tradition? It seems like the only real one you want is the initial and then you want patronage/the science one and autoc for the rest of the game.

 

[RadioLemon]

This might seem pretty stupid, but what I almost always do is first, build a scout then worker in city while discovering mining, then pottery, then calender. With my worker I try to up my production in the city a bit and my population. When I have calender I try to build stone hedge first, because It think the huge early culture bonus can help me build up faster.

 

[lilnev]

I've been trying what might be called 'NC second'. Something like scout-worker-warrior-settler-library-NC. I feel like the most important thing is to get your luxuries improved and sold ASAP (this is on Immortal, so the AI have plenty of gold to buy them), and often there's a spot for a second city claiming 2+ luxuries, that I fear the AI will try to claim. I may buy a second worker after the first luxury sale, or the capital may buy its library; second city definitely buys it.

 

[chgrogers]

You might want to double check this before trying it. I don't know about post patch, but I know prepatch when I built barracks in all cities then built the military national wonder the wonder got destroyed when I sold one of my barracks. In a later game I built it again, but the wonder also got destroyed when I founded a new city. So unless the patch changed something you should hold off on building national wonders until after you Rex.

Post Patch you can sell the buildings or settle a new building without the wonder being destroyed. You can even build the national wonder in a city then sell off the building in that city.

 

[WeaselSlapper]

Post Patch you can sell the buildings or settle a new building without the wonder being destroyed. You can even build the national wonder in a city then sell off the building in that city.

This has been stated. I think when I saw it, it was one of my early games and it wasn't that a sold a building (it may have been before that patch) but added a new city and I defiantly lost a hero epic.

 

[swordspider]

In multiplayer I typically do the following:

Scout>Scout>Worker>Warrior/Settler(depending on threat level, but usually Settler)>Warrior/Settler>Worker>Warrior/Settler>Settler>Library! Etc.

I've gotten flak for this plenty of times BUT I haven't lost a multiplayer FFA in as long as I can remember... so flak all you want, this is highly effective. The scouts run and grab huts which gives a serious early game advantage depending on what you get and more importantly, shows you the lay of the land (chokepoints, other human players, etc) which is even more important. I always rush the first settler over to the closest player to stop them from expanding into my area (typically on top of a luxury), then the second settler between that distant city and my capital. 3rd settler goes towards the next closest human player (if applicable) and typically drops ON iron to give it to me without mining it and then allows for immediate warrior>swordsman to defend (if no iron, then another luxury). If you are playing noobs, you can take other paths, but this has proven very effective.

 

[metatheory]

When the terrain is plains or desert I'm a big fan of Warrior -> Warrior -> Worker -> Warrior(or Archer) and buying the first settler using money from Open Borders or selling my first lux if I need to.

 

[Maestro_Innit]

Wait, what? You buy something from Open Borders? I've never got more than 45g from selling OB and that's only with people who are friendly. Since a Settler's like 600+g or whatever it is that seems a big ask

 

[metatheory]

Wait, what? You buy something from Open Borders? I've never got more than 45g from selling OB and that's only with people who are friendly. Since a Settler's like 600+g or whatever it is that seems a big ask

Generally I play Emperor Continents. Usually have 3 civs on my starting continent. I can sell open borders fr 43-50g/30 turns. By the time my 3rd warrior is built (turn 40ish)I can have another go at selling Open Borders. This time I've more than likely ticked one or two of the other civs off though so I either get less or don't sell to them at all. The early Settler is key though so I will sell my first lux if necessary.

Settlers are 440g on Standard Pace.

Even in rough terrain I sometimes do Scout -> Warrior -> Worker -> Warrior. I love to be able to tag team those nearby barb camps so I can head on to the next.

 

[YYY]

I tried the fast National College route yesterday using Prince, Huge, Continents, Standard Time, as Washington. I know the Americans are basically one of the worst civs in the game right now, but I like the aesthetics and I'm of the opinion that good strategies should be able to stand for themselves.

Fast National College does stand for itself, but...like a lot of other people said in this topic, it's very conditional. For the first ~50 turns of the game, you leave yourself sickeningly open to a Swordsman rush.

My build order was basically Scout > Worker > Monument to start with, my initial tech being Pottery > Calendar. If you didn't have a Calendar luxury around your capitol, it'd be much more dicey, I think. Obviously, Writing comes right after Calendar.

That's really where the hard and fast in this route ends. After I got the Monument done, I made the judgment call to go for Stonehenge since I'd gotten culture from some ruins and was fairly close to popping Aristocracy (Tradition tree, +33% Wonder output). A few Warriors would have probably done me better otherwise, since the downtime between the Monument's completion and Writing's research completion is the only flex space you have in the first 40 or 50 turns. I had to starve my capitol (-1 food net) for about 10 turns to get Stonehenge done in time, but in the end I feel it was well worth it since it let me fill out what I wanted in Tradition before Patronage opened up.

After Writing was done, I immediately started building a Library and set a beeline for Philosophy (backfilling Animal Husbandry and Trapping).

Then things got hazy again. I sold my capitol's luxuries for gold (300g) to my neighbors and had a big decision to make with the proceeds. Buying a Settler to handle the post-slingshot rapid expansion sounded reasonable. Bribing a city-state (preferably Militaristic to compensate for the fact that I had no hammers to spare) sounded good. Buying the rest of the Library sounded good. There was also the chance to grab some research agreements while they were still cheap and quick (200g/20 turns). In the end, I ended up bribing a Maritime city state that was strategically well placed near my rivals, giving me a nice bit of vision in their territory and ending any food worries.

Even what to build right after the Library was a bit of a conundrum. Philosophy was due to finish about 3 turns before I could crank out the Great Library. Seeing as how Civil Service was projected to take a whopping 83 turns to research, this was very attractive, and in my experience if there's one Wonder the AIs like, it's the freaking Great Library. Delaying it to build the National College seemed a large risk to take. But in the end, I rationalized that the National College was a sure thing, while the Great Library could be yanked out from under me and leave me in an even weaker position.

In the end, I think I made the right decision. The National College over doubled my Science output, allowing me to back-fill Bronze Working and Iron Working in the ~15 turns it took me to slam out the Great Library. I then took Civil Service as my free tech, putting me about 20 turns ahead of my next closest competitor in the tech race and giving me a great growth base to boot. When I finally started spewing out Settlers at around turn 45 or 50 I was able to complete them in 6 turns apiece. It's turn ~110 in the game now and I'm still basically an entire era ahead of everyone else.

Still, I can see how huge of a gamble it was, and how precarious it made me. The trick of it is that after you've gotten that far using peacemonger research techniques, you're very apt to keep playing those up to not lose your advantage. I was making a ton of money selling luxuries because I had very little need for Happy, and I quickly ran out of useful city-states to bribe. That led me to beeline Astronomy instead of Steel or Gunpowder, and caused a scare where Rome declared war on me in spite of a research agreement and a luxury deal we had. In this case I was able to bribe a city state near Caesar and it sapped his invading army enough that he decided it wasn't worth it, but it could have easily gone sideways if there hadn't been a bribeable city state in the way.

That was a lot of text, but the bottom line here is, positive indications for a fast National College start:
+ An easily defensible starting zone
+ Calendar-harvestable luxuries
+ Marble (I didn't have this but it would've helped)
+ No 'must have' areas near the capitol
+ An early Culture ruin
+ Strategically placed Maritime or Militaristic city-states
+ Large maps, or at least a lot of space between you and your nearest rival

If I didn't have the majority of these I'd probably scrap the idea and go for a more traditional start.

 

[Soronery]

Longsword rush build (turn 60 or so quick pace):
scout
scout
worker
library
national college
barracks
heroic epic
armory
swordsman
swordsman
swordsman
swordsman
upgrade to LS and attack.

(CS allies+patronage is recommened)

 

[Tabarnak]

Longsword rush build (turn 60 or so quick pace):
scout
scout
worker
library
national college
barracks
heroic epic
armory
swordsman
swordsman
swordsman
swordsman
upgrade to LS and attack.

(CS allies+patronage is recommened)

I prefer :

scout
worker
warrior
settler
settler
warriors in 2 settled cities and monument in cap
3 libraries
2 settlers and NC simultaneously (settlers for extra iron)
monuments
turn 55ish....build extra swordmen-warriors
turn 60-65 upgrade to longswordmen with all the cash you saved (no CS allies or patronnage)
Go honor and oligarchy for an amazing 33% + 20% (+10%? if possible)= 53%*18=27.54 in your territory
If immortal(or emperor?) or lower, go for Oracle for the extra 10%

Best record so far(without RA, luxuries selling or allies) : 6 longsowrdmen for turn 64, 4 once at turn 59. But what is nice is....if you wait enough, you can have 10-12 LS around turn 80 with nice tune up...without AI tweaks.

The thing is you must be the warmonger for the rest of the game in most cases.

 

[Airey]

I prefer :

scout
worker
warrior
settler
settler
warriors in 2 settled cities and monument in cap
3 libraries
2 settlers and NC simultaneously (settlers for extra iron)
monuments
turn 55ish....build extra swordmen-warriors
turn 60-65 upgrade to longswordmen with all the cash you saved (no CS allies or patronnage)
Go honor and oligarchy for an amazing 33% + 20% (+10%? if possible)= 53%*18=27.54 in your territory
If immortal(or emperor?) or lower, go for Oracle for the extra 10%

Best record so far(without RA, luxuries selling or allies) : 6 longsowrdmen for turn 64, 4 once at turn 59. But what is nice is....if you wait enough, you can have 10-12 LS around turn 80 with nice tune up...without AI tweaks.

The thing is you must be the warmonger for the rest of the game in most cases.

ya...I've found starting 2 or 3 cities can better recover if something goes wrong.
Strong science midgame allows players to stop the rush if AI gets too strong.
1 City, you're pretty much committed to it.