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Wow.. the odds..

Discussion in 'CivRev - General Discussions' started by Cannibal Corpse, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. frank_littleff

    frank_littleff Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    think of it this way:

    a battle as depicted on screen is actually a war which lasts anything frm a year to 10 or 20 years. Given that a battle lasting those lengths wouldn't be fought head on then one can assume that archers, using ingenuity and geurilla tactics, could actually take out the tank army. They could ambush the soldiers using the tanks at night. They could disable the tanks or even, at a stretch, poison the soldiers food.

    You have to see what you see as a condensed representation of a bigger picture, and so yes, it is possible for archers or pikemen to kill mechanised units this way.






    if you didn't, you'd go insane with frustration
     
  2. KAZUY4

    KAZUY4 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
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    264
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Well, I had the worst yesterday. Playing with England, with 3 cruisers give in me naval support, England receive double support in Modern Era, and I was attacking with an army of tank with Infiltration and Great General. I was stopped by a army of Riflemen with odds at least 4:1. because I was able to destroy fortifications twice before attacking. Ridiculous. It was around 96:21.
    To be honest, after that happen I was so pissed that I quit even with the Game complete under my control, two other civilizations destroyed. Sometimes is way to weird the way a battle develop. :crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye:
     
  3. civoholic

    civoholic Warlord

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    Jul 2, 2008
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    111
    Im sorry im trying to make the game realistic. When England knew how to make guns effectivly, they didn't use archers. I didn't see in the vietnam war, old civil war soldiers coming in to battle
     
  4. Endure

    Endure Prince

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    Mar 23, 2008
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    And when the europeans where fighting to colonize parts of Africa against the natives, there's times with "modern" armies with guns were defeated by tribesmen throwing spears or using bows and arrows.

    It certainly wasn't the expected outcome going into the battle, but it did happen occasionally. It's very frustrating when it happens in the game I agree, but it does happen and it's part of the game for the sake of balance.
     
  5. frank_littleff

    frank_littleff Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
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    didn't the native indians kick what's his names hide?

    and i'm sure not every battle the colonial empires had in africa were won by the gunpowder brigade, even if the wars were
     
  6. Killer Moogle

    Killer Moogle Chieftain

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    Jul 7, 2008
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    Location:
    Minneapolis MN
    Custer's Last Stand? (not sure if that's what you were referring to.)
     
  7. frank_littleff

    frank_littleff Chieftain

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    Jun 21, 2008
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    yes, thank you, my mind drew a blank
     
  8. pimpens

    pimpens Chieftain

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    Jul 28, 2008
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    if this game was suppose to be 100% about realism, throwing balance and fun to the wind, it would have been made by the history channel, not Firaxis.
     
  9. dennis580

    dennis580 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2001
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    83
    Thats a terrible reason to cheat. Whats the point if winning is so important that you have to make sure you cheat to get it.
     
  10. CharlieM

    CharlieM Creative, Spiritual

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    Dec 14, 2003
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    Location:
    Existential State
    Ummm, because winning is fun. And losing is not as fun. And I sensed that was the make-or-break moment of the game.

    I hope to not need to resort to such tactics as I get better at the game. I am sorry if you don't see the point, but I do.
     
  11. Smidlee

    Smidlee Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
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    3,348
    You will be better at the game by learning to win a losing (weak) position. This game isn't really all that challenging except when things turn badly in the beginning of the game.
    I know you can play it any way you want but you are cheating yourself of playing probably the most interesting games while you're still learning. Once you learn the game well you realize just how easy it is to cream the AI.
    I recommend you try the "game of the week" where you can't save.
     
  12. revcrap

    revcrap Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
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    I'm not enjoying this game at all, because of the odd logic which is employed in the above examples, additionally...

    1). How can one have Tanks before gunpowder, I have tanks and it then says I can now make cannons, huh?, what kind of logic is that?.
    1a). I have Cruisers and it asks me if I want Galleons, huh ?....
    2). Archer units with different Civ's have different powers, why?.
    3). Tanks shoot down planes, wtf...(although that's fun).
    4). I had 4 archer armies in my city for defence, and it mysteriously gets over run by one pike army, huh?....
    5). I had several archer armies on a perimeter on hills guarding my city, peace was made with neighbour and my defending archer armies vanished, huh?...
    6). The map zoom out is really crappola as one cannot zoom-out and pan without some serious roller coaster nauseating effects, and it doesn't really provide a decent overview of the surroundings. On more than one occasion I have had a city overrun because I couldn't locate the enemies city with that crappy zoom so that I could send my tanks over. I HATE THE MAP SCAN.....

    I'm currently trying to get going at deity, and I'm two turns away from tossing this game....

    I do my best to manage my city so that I can get some decent tech going asap, and next thing, bam I'm being hammered by a neighbour who has rifleman....wtf...how did he get there so quickly.....just doesn't seem logical and therein lies the issue for me, so much about this game is illogical that it's unplayable.
    There's nothing which explains the little nuances of the tech's, like Archer units which can nail Tanks, how absurd is that, at least provide that information somewhere in civilpedia and yes I have RTFM.

    as I said, two turns away from the trash can....
     
  13. Masquerouge

    Masquerouge Deity

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    It's pretty funny how, in each iteration of Civilization, people still expect to win 100% of the fights where they have more than a 51% chance to win...
     
  14. Killer Moogle

    Killer Moogle Chieftain

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    revcrap,

    Try playing a game on King or Warlord first. I think you'll find that you can pretty much destroy the AI opposition. Deity definitely tests your resouce managment and luck. Both my Deity victories were extremely fortunate circumstances.
     
  15. Smidlee

    Smidlee Deity

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    nm ...................
     
  16. JJDM

    JJDM Chieftain

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    I've been browsing for a while but I had to make an account and post about the excessive amount of whining going on.

    I'm into realism as much as the next guy, but this game simply can't be played with any sense that your 'modern' military units are guaranteed a victory over inferior units, or you are going to be disappointed.

    Just think about it... if tanks armies were instant wins when up against archers/pikemen/riflemen/knights/catapults/cannons/etc, the entire game would become a race to get tanks because first to research combustion wins the game. I don't know about you but that would get boring to me very quickly...


    Rather than focusing on what your army looks like (whether the polygonal representations of your troops are holding bows and arrows or machine guns), instead worry about the numbers. This game is all about numbers, attack values, defense values, modifiers.

    For what it's worth, this is the first Civ series game I've ever played, and I'm having a blast.
     
  17. revcrap

    revcrap Chieftain

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    Yes and my point is, these values which you so treasure are totally random and undocumented, so how the heck is one supposed to form any kind of strategy against a foe who always has the odds in his favour.

    are you a Firaxis dev in disguise, trying to prop up the game...
     
  18. JJDM

    JJDM Chieftain

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    They aren't random, it's probability, it's a dice roll. If you have 50 attack and the defense has 50 defense, you can expect to win that battle 50% of the time. That means you will lose 50% of the time.

    Say you lose that battle. Your next army attacks with 50 attack, this doesn't mean that you are going to win because you lost the previous battle. It means you have another 50% chance of winning or losing. And you may lose again. And you may lose the next time too.

    If you want to win consistently, you have to play the odds in your favour.

    No I don't work for anybody, I just enjoy numerical strategy games and I felt obligated to post my opinion on historical accuracy making or breaking the fun factor of this game.
     
  19. revcrap

    revcrap Chieftain

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    So where, pray tell, is this documented ?, and how exactly does one "play the odds" to ones favour, is this witchcraft, a hidden skill ?,
     
  20. jayeffaar

    jayeffaar Warlord

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    Montreal, Canada
    You know, you may have a point. The game behaves exactly as I expect it to from several years of playing civ games on and off but to a newcomer, the way the odds work with the combat system may not be obvious. If they don't explain it clearly in the manual or the 'pedia, they should. Right now, away from the game, I can't remember if they do.
     

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