WTP 4.0.2 Published - Community Feedback

[Jaded1]

Wow, though I love WtP 4.0 I would never have put my hand up for it's early release, if I knew this would happen. It's so sad, everyone wanted it out more so we could help find bugs. Not sit in judgement over the Mod. But instead there has been so many complaints about how they thought the Mod was going to progress.. For me, if it never got a further update I'd still love it. In a world where the simpleton rules and dumbing down old and great strategies was the new way of thinking. Mods' like this and Realism Invictus have been my saving grace. I do hope more is done on this Mod that will see it to the idea the Modder's where striving for. But as I said.. I would love it if it whether it progressed further or it was abandoned. Because it's Complexity is great. Every time I play I realise something new and add it to my next game strategy. So thank you Modder's for all your hard work over the years you've made one old gamer happy.

 

[thom_99]

What jaded1 said...4.0.1 is awesome!

 

[Isabelxxx]

I don't really get all the fuss. Have seen praise and critics on every other mod and this is the only one where a critic or feedback not aligned with a single modder (even if it comes along praise) it's taken as something personal and with a lot of drama.

This is what happens when people don't behave properly on a forum, and ultimately harms the entire community. Something which was warned before, by the way

The mod is pretty great and is also failing in some basic points (which obviously may be implemented/fixed on the future). Different people may have a different vision about some points, and no matter how many times someone repeats their vision, that will not change. You can not please everybody. Just accept it and move on. That's what a forum is all about, if you only want to read your own opinion just don't participate on a forum.

Also giving some hints about the roadmap publicly on the downloads page/github would clearly stop people complaining about the same things again and again. Just checked it and github for ex only shows as "Known issues" 2 technical issues at the front page. But it seems to be "accepted" [by the team] that there are other known issues or WIP features [on the roadmap], which are also demanded to be known by people before playing the game or giving feedback here.

Some of the major changes are now supposed to be WIP and there is no mention about it. If you put in big letters "COLOPEDIA IS INCOMPLETE YET; WILL BE READY AT 4.X", no one will complain anymore about it (or maybe someone does, but then you have a point if you get angry ).

Attacking users who give feedback doesn't help anybody. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here about communication; if there are 20 users complaining about X, maybe "X is WIP" has not been communicated properly at the channels people use to download or get info about the mod. Obviously this advice can be sent to the trash, but reality is there, no matter how many times someone wants to ignore it.

Hope the team re-frames the current situation with sanity and logic and continue -with positivity- developing this great mod.

 

[raystuttgart]

About myself:

The only thing that truly matters in modding is having fun being creative.
But being a public modder was not fun for me anymore - as simple as that.

Thus I stop being a public modder and will spend my private time for other things.
There is no need to discuss why or to overanalyze anything. I state a simple fact.

-----------

About being empathetic:

I tried to explain the situation of the mod after WTP 4.0 several times: We were tired and wasted - low on motivation after 2 years.
I thus asked several times to give us a break for some months so we could recover engery and motivation to continue the mod.

We were continuing work on WTP 4.1 but for some reason that was not enough as criticism and advise still continued ... and even now start again.
As if community believes that continous pressure and critizism would somehow increase the motivation of the modders to keep contributing.

-----------

About looking back positively:

Still I had some years of coming back to community and brought the mod some steps closer to what I want to play myself.
Community got some more new features and some more releases. So all sides in one way or the other profted from it.

The public mod project may continue with whoever wants to contribute to it - so that is also no problem.
Whatever I created is still there and the active WTP team can do with it whatever it wants - no strings attached.

----------

About looking forward positively:

What happened in the past does not matter anymore to me as it is better to let the remaining team concentrate on what lies ahead.
Thus there is also no need to start blaming, to get personal, to continue criticism or to advise again - it will not help anybody.

I stay friends with the rest of the team and other modders I worked with ín the past and thus wish the project all the best for the future.
The remaining modders can and will surely decide themselves how they want to handle the future of the project.

-----------

About what would be best now:

I would strongly suggest to community to not start advising, critizising and making demands again - it is counterproductive and will drive away even more modders.
Instead it would be much more wise to give the remaining modders a break so they might at least publish WTP 4.1 without unnecessary stress and pressure.

So please everybody relax and just continue playing or modding or whatever you like to do.
It will be much more productive and enjoyable than the strange moral discussion that seems to start again.

A small piece of music as goodbye.

 

[migalhone]

Hello and many thanks for all the hard work behind this mod! Seems it has an insane amount of content and features. I've downloaded it and set it up correctly (i think!)

Since i haven't played Civ4Col in a long time and being a newbie in this mod, i just wanted to know if there are any recommended colony/leader/map size and general setup tips i should know

Thanks

 

[Voker57]

As the developer frustrated and deprived of the motivation to develop the mod by user feedback has left the second time, I will continue to use this opportunity to advise and criticize the future mod authors. If you find user feedback sapping your will, don't read it. Especially avoid advising and criticizing your users what things they should leave the feedback on, this will only add to your frustration.

 

[uplink]

Hello and many thanks for all the hard work behind this mod! Seems it has an insane amount of content and features. I've downloaded it and set it up correctly (i think!)

Since i haven't played Civ4Col in a long time and being a newbie in this mod, i just wanted to know if there are any recommended colony/leader/map size and general setup tips i should know

Thanks

Just don´t use the map generator, use pre-made maps that come with the mod - otherwise you won`t have all the new features. I recommend starting with smaller maps, it will be easier to maintain your colony.
Have fun!

 

[Brosso B.]

So after playing 4.0.2, first of all: This is a genuinely impressive amount of work all throughout. The art direction (the new terrain is gorgeous!), new content, and mechanics clearly had a lot of work and love put into them. I appreciate the amount of passion on display and am glad to see you all working on this game even now....

[Snip to reduce visual spam]

...To put my point in shorter terms, I'll use my favourite Civ 4 tech quote:
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." – Antoine de Saint-Exupery

While I am personally not a fan of this newest release, again, I do appreciate the amount of effort involved and am keen to see where the team's hard work continues to lead this mod.

When people ask for proof of God, this perfect post should be used as evidence.

 

[Darnokthemage]

I don't think this was added in 4.0.2, but it has changed since i played last. Awesome work in general, but as usual, everyone has some nitpicks!

1. Clouds showing up on the minimap is both ugly and not useful, it makes it harder to see things in general.

2. Visual Clutter! All the new materials and resources are fun to play with, but they make it impossible to find the right ones! Perhaps make them only show up if you can produce them?

3. Gameplay clutter, it all depends on personal taste, but the game get's overwhelming easily and often is detrimental to gameplay! Perhaps Someone else than the Devs need to make a simplified submod.

But in general, i love what you have been doing with it all!

 

[Jaded1]

Well I've made one modification to the script.. I changed Hemp Planters to the same script defines as Rapeseed Planters for Europe, though it could also have been set for Africa. My logic was Hemp is from Asia, so it should be available in at least one of those two Port locations. And it's the only profession not able to be purchased at any of the Ports right now.

Also I'm trying to find out how to change runaway units to have the same XP value as Wild animals.. But I can't find where to make the change. Any input would be great.

Never mind, I found it in the Global defines XP cap section and set it to 2 same as the wild animals. My logic is if I fight an slave from another nation I'd earn XP for it. But I do get that you don't want players farming Slave units for XP. But they can harm, and rarely kill your units. So they should be like the animal units in the world giving a max of 2.

 

[Darnokthemage]

Been playing it for a longer time now, gotta say i am extremely impressed!

 

[Zaphale]

Just whoaaa ! you the people modder, you all rocks ! Very impressive job, thanks ya so much to keep this great game alive... I played colonization since the MS-DOS and i'll play it again for more years thx to ya!

NB: Just a few words with the french translation i just saw : "pute seductrice" is like a "seductive whore", not so fancy name better to translate in "Prostituée" or better "Courtisane" less vulgar i think.

Thx a lot You people !

 

[Kendon]

with the french translation i just saw : "pute seductrice" is like a "seductive whore", not so fancy name better to translate in "Prostituée" or better "Courtisane" less vulgar i think.

I agree. I've made the change.

Here's how it reads now:

"Les [COLOR_HIGHLIGHT_TEXT]prostituées[COLOR_REVERT] peuvent travailler dans la [LINK=BUILDING_TAVERN]taverne[\LINK] ou l'une de ses améliorations pour produire [LINK=YIELD_HAPPINESS]le bonheur[\LINK] et [LINK=YIELD_CULTURE]la culture[\LINK]. Les [LINK=UNIT_HARLOT]courtisanes[\LINK] excellent dans ce domaine. Avec un peu de culture, elles augmenteront considérablement votre production de bonheur."

 

[Zaphale]

Here's how it reads now:

"Les [COLOR_HIGHLIGHT_TEXT]prostituées[COLOR_REVERT] peuvent travailler dans la [LINK=BUILDING_TAVERN]taverne[\LINK] ou l'une de ses améliorations pour produire [LINK=YIELD_HAPPINESS]le bonheur[\LINK] et [LINK=YIELD_CULTURE]la culture[\LINK]. Les [LINK=UNIT_HARLOT]courtisanes[\LINK] excellent dans ce domaine. Avec un peu de culture, elles augmenteront considérablement votre production de bonheur."

Fast and perfect ! Thx.

 

[Zaphale]

Ok, i played this for a few hours now and i love it ! I saw all the fuzz about this mods here or on Steam but people forgot one thing : it's a mod, ya like it, you keep and play if not delete...
I agree it's more complex, i tried and restart a few time (before i found good place or a city for example), so it could be hard for people who discover this game, but for old timer, oh my ! A lot of thinking, micro-management and i love that with the new and numerous ressources and jobs.
Ok, it's a bit confusing at first and you have to search info on tiles and ressource here (till the colopedia update) but i prefer interesting games like this rather than games with a "green arrow" at every step.

So Big up to the team and thx ya very much for all your work ! People will always complain and troll even for a free add-on like this.

Stay strong people !

 

[raystuttgart]

Stay strong people !

Thanks.

We are still modding ... but it is currently without timelines or pressure.
Modding is simply not the only important thing in our life.

Considering some of the discussions after last release:

We would simply like to have a modding community again instead of a consumer community.
Until that is the case we will mainly work in the internal area (discord) with team and supporters.

This is what I hope for again for this community in the future, as it was lost over time.
(Maybe then modders may actually come here again to create, share, discuss, publish and find support.)

• Creating: modding being about what modders and supporters want not what others demand
• Sharing: (more) modders sharing and cooperating so (more) content can be created for all
• Discussing: modders daring to experiment and discussions being construcitve without criticism
• Publishing: community staying relaxed when releases take longer or are not all "perfect"
• Supporting: also for non-programmers there are still ways to contribute and help a bit

Generally:

CivFanatics is simply not our main site anymore as it lost its attrativity for us.
However team and supporters are still working on the mod in a relaxed fashion.

Those who wish to contribute and participate are welcome to join us.
Then they will also have a chance to influence what will be created.

At some point there may also be a public release again.
Until then ... enjoy modding, playing or whatever you do.

 

[OzzyKP]

The new barracks/naval unit limit led to a much, much better and more tactical revolution defense - rather than just blobbing 40+ units in a city or 2 as I'd normally do.
The shallow coast mechanic led to a more immersive & tactical later game, I actually had a reason to use some of my lower tier ships rather than just hiding them/trading with them in a safe corner of the map.
Galleons are no longer a unit that just do everything better then all the other merchant ships, makes it necessary to use other ships, and on that note I'm so happy Man-O-Wars are buildable!!
Buccaneers are so much fun to use. Maybe a little bit too much fun. I kept abducting Wagon Trains and Colonists from an Allied AI which I found quite honestly hilarious

I agree with all this. The barracks/naval unit limit is a fantastic change. I love the shallow coasts and restrictions on which ships can do what. I think there are still too many different ship types, but overall these are great developments to make different ships useful for different things. Requiring equipment for settlers is a good change as well. It was too easy to just plop down cities everywhere. I love all the flavor text too. There is a ton of dialogue and other scenes as you progress through the game, great work! I'm glad to see the slavery mechanic be developed more as well. I like health, law & happiness as well.

So after playing 4.0.2, first of all: This is a genuinely impressive amount of work all throughout. The art direction (the new terrain is gorgeous!), new content, and mechanics clearly had a lot of work and love put into them. I appreciate the amount of passion on display and am glad to see you all working on this game even now.

For me it is entirely due to the new resources and production chains. People have been talking these in terms of the learning curve being harder or the UI being cluttered, but to me I see a bigger problem: What necessitated them being added?
I honestly picked up the new system without too much difficulty, but I find that the new resources and production chains don't meaningfully change my decision making process, which is the key driver of a 4X game.

But I really can't say the same for most of the other new additions. As a player, I cannot see a meaningful justification for most of them to exist as discretely detailed features when they could just be abstracted into categories without changing how I interact with the game. I would seriously take a look into cammcken's suggestion above about substitutions as a good solution, and redesign more resources to be flavour-only alternatives like how fruit varieties currently work.

To put my point in shorter terms, I'll use my favourite Civ 4 tech quote:
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." – Antoine de Saint-Exupery

I agree with this as well. Everyone has different tastes. I know that mods like Moar Units or Realism Invictus are popular because of all the stuff they add. I'm not saying that adding more resources and more complex supply chains is a bad move, lots of people will love it I'm sure, but my preference aligns with Mousey and others. This is NOT a criticism, just stating my preference so you all can have another data point when considering people's preferences.

Thank you everyone for all the work you put into this mod, it is overall fantastic! I know that modding is a thankless task and very draining. Every time I've released something I've experienced a real psychological let down when the reaction isn't what I was expecting (unrealistic as my expectations may be) and needed to take a step back or work on other projects. I'd check the download numbers or the number of comments or stars or whathaveyou and invariably be disappointed. So I have complete understanding of and sympathy for Ray's feelings. In my more sober moments I realize that any creative endeavor, like modding, is ultimately about my own enjoyment in creation and realizing a vision. The reactions (or lack of reactions) in others shouldn't get to me, but they do and I don't have any tips or advice for WTP modders on how to overcome that, just to say that I understand where you're coming from and very, very much appreciate all the many hours of work that is put into a product like this and given away for free to the community. Thank you so much!

 

[Jaded1]

I agree with this as well. Everyone has different tastes. I know that mods like Moar Units or Realism Invictus are popular because of all the stuff they add. I'm not saying that adding more resources and more complex supply chains is a bad move, lots of people will love it I'm sure, but my preference aligns with Mousey and others. This is NOT a criticism, just stating my preference so you all can have another data point when considering people's preferences.

Sadly, many people can't see what all the new resources are about. In the older versions of the game different biomes suffered economically because of the lack of resources available. This allowed prime starting locations to always dominate the games. While those in Desert or Tundra climates, like the Danes, fell behind. Now, with all the new resources, the game is balanced. Making for a better game as a whole, but much better for multiplayer. A perfect example is Flax. In the past you needed Grassland to grow Hemp so you could make Sail Cloth and Ropes, vital production items. But now you can grow Flax in Tundra to make the same products at the docks. So before you judge why all the new resources, look at where they are found on the maps. Maybe play a few different nations start locations, then you'll have a better understanding before you post about it.

 

[Schmiddie]

Hi guys,

I made my first long run / game the last days with the current "Develop" version. I play on Marathon and a Gigantic map. At first I was also - like many others - worried that the new resources, units etc. might be too much and too complex to have fun playing. But exactly the opposite is the case. It is fantastic - if you get involved as a player. Especially the new ships deserve their importance and should be used.

I have made the experience that with so many things you want to build and develop until the revolution, however, the time is far too short. In my experience an additional game speed would be useful, which gives the player even more time to develop his colonies fully. I am also a player who likes to finish everything perfectly first (not necessarily everything fully developed, but still in such a way that the respective colony fulfills its purpose) before he starts the revolution. This takes time - as well as exploring the map and interacting with the other powers.

For the quiet builders I would like to introduce a kind of gamespeed "Marathon - Gigantic" or "Marathon for Builders". I will do some tests there and maybe create a different speed alternative.

I also play on "Governor" and have to say, the AI has really become a hard nut to crack. With the cheats for the AI, it is now only possible to beat it with the best tactics. It builds up very quickly and purposefully.

Even with this difficulty level, it is easily possible to make friends with aggressive Indian peoples and not provoke a war - as long as you start trading early and do everything you can to make them friendly. After that it's a piece of cake and they are good trading partners and suppliers for new settlers.

There could definitely be more events coming up and more diplo options with the other European leader. Maybe that will come one day.

All in all though, it's very challenging and really a lot of fun. Definitely worth playing it.