Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by Arthedain, Jan 24, 2011.
Still, a good idea for an alternate history Civ2 scenario, with new units.
To cut in on the love-fest for the mass-murdering Stalin, when everyone else sat on their butts, and
were even secretly funding the nazis, (thanks Bush family!) Britain took on the full might of the Reich.
You can thank us for not now being human slave animals under the 1940s version of the EU.
To be fair to our Canadian posters, that nation did send troops to the UK days after WW2 broke out.
A real commonwealth friend when we were in need.
We can count the deaths caused by the British empire, and if most of the peoples under its rule we can call them "free", even though they knew of exterminations and concentration camps (and famines, like those of India in the 40s). What the Nazis applied in Europe on an industrial scale of extermination, other "liberal" countries had already applied (and would apply). But, if we consider that we must thank UK for resisting the Nazis, we will also have to be grateful to the United States, the guerrillas and resisters (many of them communists) and to the peoples who suffered the most and still won: the Chinese and the Soviet. And this is independent with what if we like the American or Soviet model more or less. The truth is that there are many books, documentaries and history channels that judge Stalin very harshly, not sparing disqualifying epithets every two sentences, and whose regime they consider more criminal than the Nazi, with trillions of dead ... from his allies in the war however they do not say anything bad. Dropping two atomic bombs against a majority of the civilian population of an already defeated country basically saved the lives of American boys. So there are lives that are worth more than others.
Only one European country made bricks from human ash, and it wasn't the UK.
My last words on the matter. Revise on, guys.
I'm not going to add fuel to the fire either, and although comparing two historical events is not equal, I do believe that admiration and respect do not reject criticism, but thick lines or ideology do. And that's why I don't understand that the exposition of facts, the destruction of Nazi divisions by the Soviets, led to the final military defeat of the latter (without denying the importance of the UK either). And I'm not going to say anything else, because in the end I did add a little more gasoline. Greetings and be happy
No-one is denouncing the the Red Army's bravery, but the despicable regimes that these soldiers had to serve.
And comparing the British Empire to the Nazis or Soviets is so demented, I won't even enter into it.
Naturally, some will want a last word, so I invite them to get it out of their system,
and then let's go back to posting nice CIV2 GFX like this thread is intended for.
After a certain point, I will start deleting posts.
Just a heads up.
My last words on the matter
My wife's family is from Poland. Her grandmother was in a work camp. Her great grandfather was lined up against a wall and shot. I'm quite grateful for everything anyone and everyone did to stop Hitler. My kids are but some of the many who owed so much to so few. Cheers to the Grand Alliance! And as we squabble about pronouns and duopoly and this and that today, let's all remember that at one time three extremely different peoples from three extremely different empires came together to vanquish perhaps the most depraved menace humanity had ever known. Each of us are indebted to all the Allied soldiers!
Anywho... How's that scenario coming, Curt? I'm feeling all inspired!
Last words? We'll see. Here are mine.
First, thank you for the shout out to the Canadian role in the defense of Britain. It was given unhesitatingly and Canadians are still proud of it today.
Second, I do not dispute the murderous crimes of Josef Stalin, and condemn them absolutely.
Third, and here is the "but". Recognition of these crimes shouldn't gloss over the role of British imperialism in the rise of fascist dictatorships in 1930s Europe, nor the true role of Soviet diplomacy in the same period. Stanley Baldwin and Neville Chamberlain were not naive politicians, though they did underestimate Hitler. Rather they were experienced and calculating imperialists who hoped to turn Hitler against the Soviet Union, the destruction of which had been a goal of British foreign policy since Churchill's intervention on the side of the Whites in 1918-19. On the other hand, Soviet foreign policy had been consistently anti-fascist and sought collective action against Hitler right up until the now infamous "Hitler-Stalin Pact". It was for them an act of desperation and self-preservation. At least, that's the way I see it.
Fourth, I would very much like to try your new WW2 scenario, if you would be willing to send me the files.
If you wish to continue this, take it to the OT thead and join Patine.
As for the Overlords scenario, it is playtesting at the moment. I sent the files to you @JPetroski.
I see it's been a quiet and harmonious Christmas for everyone
It's a forum full of well-informed history nerds, what can we expect?
To add coin in the machine, truth is all parties played their own interests without any philantropic purpose, considering their choices with the little informations they had at the time . And some played it better than others (well, can't boast about French demonstration of power in these times).
Soldiers from all countries on every battle are to be praised for their bravery facing death, civils supporting war effort or facing war and occupation consequences shall be respected, while all would condamn the totalitarists deadly excess, hoping stupid populace may not lay in such trap again.
About what made what in History, truth is often lying in such mountains of complex details, lucky occurences and coincidences that it is hard to point easy answers in its run.
France shall thanks the UK and Churchill's effort for an independant balanced Europe, while sadly Europe, UK included didn't owned enough strengh anymore to resist US nor URSS imperialism (which aren't more nor less legitimate than previous european -including french- imperialism) and french after De Gaulle lost themselves, investing into their own submission.
That said, from these horror comes indeed historical lessons, yet also a fantastic subject of exchange and creativity material for our incredible unit creators and fertile designers around.
Australia got 39 Gladiators I and II (ex-RAF) in 1940 and used them up to January 1941
The Egyptian monarchy got 18 Gladiators I + 25 Gladiators II (ex-RAF) circa 1939-44
The Iraqi monarchy got 15 Gladiators I + 29 Gladiators I and II (ex-RAF) between 1938-51
South Africa got 1 Gladiator I + 11 Gladiators II (ex-RAF) between 1939-41
The Soviet Union captured 5 ex-Latvian and 12 ex-Lithuanian Gladiators
In 1942, the Groupe de chasse Alsace of the Free France Air Force also used six Gladiators, probably as trainers.
Arguably the most widely exported pre-ww2 biplane fighter. 747 made plus 246 of its progenitor, the Gauntlet.
There were many more Fiat 20/30/32/42 produced but did not get used by as many operators.
Excellent camo work, sir.
@CurtSibling Thanks Curt.
Anyway, the Curtiss SO3C Seamew/ Seagull floatplane. Also known as the sea cow, for good reason.
Vought OS2U Kingfisher floatplane, used as a catapult-launched scout plane on U.S. Navy battleships, heavy cruisers and light cruisers during World War II. It far outlasted its replacement, above.
I saw one of these in 2018, aboard the USS North Carolina museum ship - An amazing spectacle to be on one of these floating steel cities.
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