WWII Europe: Small, Fast & Beautiful for IV - Discussion & Creation Diary
- Thread starter Paasky
- Start date
sgrig
Comrade
Just played the latest version as Germany up to the capture of Paris (week 4 Nov 1939). Wow this is amazing!
The winter and capture of Paris events work very smoothly and produce a fantastic effect! Great work!
Now I'm thinking that playing as Germany, it's too easy to invade France very soon after conquering Poland. Maybe Germany should start off with fewer units (at least when played by a human), and to compensate Poland made even weaker. In this case, maybe some build up of forces will be necessary to attack France. Also I'm thinking maybe Byalystok and Lvov should be given to Russia via an event (if Russia is played by the AI).
There were a few things which I thought were errors:
1) France kept attacking my units using Garrisons! Shouldn't they only use it for defense? Maybe instead of ATTACK UNIT_AI, have CITY_COUNTER or RESERVE, so that apart from defending cities, the AI also keeps them to counter-attack from cities, but not use them just to attack anyone.
2)For some reason I was not getting POWs when killing Engineers? I did get POWs in the previous version with no Python working, but not anymore.
The winter and capture of Paris events work very smoothly and produce a fantastic effect! Great work!
Now I'm thinking that playing as Germany, it's too easy to invade France very soon after conquering Poland. Maybe Germany should start off with fewer units (at least when played by a human), and to compensate Poland made even weaker. In this case, maybe some build up of forces will be necessary to attack France. Also I'm thinking maybe Byalystok and Lvov should be given to Russia via an event (if Russia is played by the AI).
There were a few things which I thought were errors:
1) France kept attacking my units using Garrisons! Shouldn't they only use it for defense? Maybe instead of ATTACK UNIT_AI, have CITY_COUNTER or RESERVE, so that apart from defending cities, the AI also keeps them to counter-attack from cities, but not use them just to attack anyone.
2)For some reason I was not getting POWs when killing Engineers? I did get POWs in the previous version with no Python working, but not anymore.
Paasky
Good News Everyone!
True, it is a bit too easy. For me it was mainly because I had doubled the tank-forces in 4 turns, as the Pz 2's are built in a huge pace. Maybe I should make construction harder? Atleast without factories.
Before making the tanks unable to take cities, the Soviets usually got Bialystok & Lvov, but now they don't seem to want them. I'll try to get them to do something.
1) Yep, I removed the cannotAttack from the Garrisons, because they should be able to kill resistance. I added UNITAI_ATTACK into the NeverAIs, I'll have to check if it works, or if I have to add more UNITAI's.
2) Now that is strange... I'll see what happens when I play.
Before making the tanks unable to take cities, the Soviets usually got Bialystok & Lvov, but now they don't seem to want them. I'll try to get them to do something.
1) Yep, I removed the cannotAttack from the Garrisons, because they should be able to kill resistance. I added UNITAI_ATTACK into the NeverAIs, I'll have to check if it works, or if I have to add more UNITAI's.
2) Now that is strange... I'll see what happens when I play.
sgrig
Comrade
Making construction slower should make it slightly harder. Currently Koln can produce PzII every 1 or 2 turns - at this rate the whole of Europe will be swamped in no time!
Also is it intended that in cities units heal completely in 1 turn? Maybe healing rate in cities could be slowed down a bit. Have you read the "Unit Healing" article by PieceOfMind? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157954
It describes the exact workings of the healing system, so using this you could fine-tune the anti-health promotions and healing in cities to achieve a desired effect.
Also is it intended that in cities units heal completely in 1 turn? Maybe healing rate in cities could be slowed down a bit. Have you read the "Unit Healing" article by PieceOfMind? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157954
It describes the exact workings of the healing system, so using this you could fine-tune the anti-health promotions and healing in cities to achieve a desired effect.
Paasky
Good News Everyone!
I found a bug: I attacked a naval transport, which was empty, using the right-click movement ( I <3 it), with a destroyer, the game crashed. I'm talking about "illegal operation and will have to be shot" crash. Ao please save your game before killing any transports 
Thanks for the linky, I'll definately read it.
Thanks for the linky, I'll definately read it.
hi..well i gota crash as finland on turn 5. but will today try as a major power..
concerning germany owning france too soon, with too many units - i find if the human player starts east of germany and declares war on the axis then the game plays much more realistically in this sense.. i guess because the bulk armies are split in two, much like in 1942
however it kinda makes sense that germany should be able to mass produce good tanks at an early stage. perhaps this can be better balanced historically by giving the Allies many more bombers in London (which could slow advance of units to west). Ok the AI might not use these bombers so cleverly but a human player can easily hold germany from amsterdam with 6 or so mosquitos
concerning germany owning france too soon, with too many units - i find if the human player starts east of germany and declares war on the axis then the game plays much more realistically in this sense.. i guess because the bulk armies are split in two, much like in 1942
however it kinda makes sense that germany should be able to mass produce good tanks at an early stage. perhaps this can be better balanced historically by giving the Allies many more bombers in London (which could slow advance of units to west). Ok the AI might not use these bombers so cleverly but a human player can easily hold germany from amsterdam with 6 or so mosquitos
OzzyKP
Emperor
I have a suggestion for a cool wonder to use in this game.
Wonder Name: ULTRA
Effect: knowledge of enemy troop positions (like what you'd get with a spy) for a set number of turns, 20 perhaps.
Ultra of course is the codename for the British effort to crack the Nazi codes. It was highly successful and said to be "decisive" by Eisenhower. Others said that breaking the German codes helped end the European war a full 2 years earlier. I think its a critically important part of the war that could be nicely represented with a world wonder.
I'm not a modder so I don't know if it can be done. I know spies can do it, so I know it is possible with game mechanics, but whether it can be triggered by a wonder or not, I dunno.
More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_(WWII_intelligence)
Wonder Name: ULTRA
Effect: knowledge of enemy troop positions (like what you'd get with a spy) for a set number of turns, 20 perhaps.
Ultra of course is the codename for the British effort to crack the Nazi codes. It was highly successful and said to be "decisive" by Eisenhower. Others said that breaking the German codes helped end the European war a full 2 years earlier. I think its a critically important part of the war that could be nicely represented with a world wonder.
I'm not a modder so I don't know if it can be done. I know spies can do it, so I know it is possible with game mechanics, but whether it can be triggered by a wonder or not, I dunno.
More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_(WWII_intelligence)
Paasky
Good News Everyone!
tenkk: Does it get an illegal operation? Or does it simply crash to the desktop without any message?
As I said, I got a crash with the empty sea transport. Perhaps I could fix it by giving it 1 strength, but a promotion which gives -99% strength, making it easy to kill.
After reading about ULTRA, and enigma, I do believe that they should be added.
As I said, I got a crash with the empty sea transport. Perhaps I could fix it by giving it 1 strength, but a promotion which gives -99% strength, making it easy to kill.
After reading about ULTRA, and enigma, I do believe that they should be added.
This MOD seems so cool, but I have never been able to play any version. Every single version I have tried I get 'you have been defeated' the second the game starts 
EDIT I just loaded a game and changed the difficulty level, works fine. I think if you play the lieutenant difficulty it doesnt work.
EDIT I just loaded a game and changed the difficulty level, works fine. I think if you play the lieutenant difficulty it doesnt work.
Paasky
Good News Everyone!
Works fine for me... Try deleting your cache (%appdata%\My Games\Civ4\Cache), prob won't help much, but it won't make anything worse either.
It is working fine for me now too. I thought maybe it only happens first time you play, so I deleted it and reinstalled. Worked first time, so I dont know what the deal was.
Great MOD so far, be nice when all the units have thier own models. Played a bit as the british, by week three my entire northern navy was at the bottom of the sea unrealistic as england owned the sea, but it could just be poor play on my part.
England is really screwed, the citys are too bunched up and they are pretty much doomed from the start. IMO edinburgh should be moved two squares north, and liverpool one square north/east, give the brit citys a little elbow room.
Great MOD so far, be nice when all the units have thier own models. Played a bit as the british, by week three my entire northern navy was at the bottom of the sea
unrealistic as england owned the sea, but it could just be poor play on my part.England is really screwed, the citys are too bunched up and they are pretty much doomed from the start. IMO edinburgh should be moved two squares north, and liverpool one square north/east, give the brit citys a little elbow room.
OzzyKP
Emperor
Paasky said:
Cool
Awesome job on latest release. Everything is working awesome on my PC.
Only issues I can name are regarding the way the early game plays out.
1) Soviets are not invading Poland or Baltic States. Perhaps fall of Warsaw should trigger Baltic States to become team mate of USSR and Lvov should do a Culture "Flip".
2) Brittish air power is far to influential in France and Belgium. Perhaps because I am a WWII junkie and play the German blitzkrieg as it happened, my Stukas get mercilesly slaughtered by Spitfires when they try to soften up Amsterdam and Brussels. I like the way that France waits to attack German positions prior to 1940, simulating the "Sitzkreig" of late 1939.
Too bad there is no way to duplicate the effects of isolating armies by encirclement to cut off their supplies and force surrender.
I am enjoying the game very much, and look forward to the final release.
Only issues I can name are regarding the way the early game plays out.
1) Soviets are not invading Poland or Baltic States. Perhaps fall of Warsaw should trigger Baltic States to become team mate of USSR and Lvov should do a Culture "Flip".
2) Brittish air power is far to influential in France and Belgium. Perhaps because I am a WWII junkie and play the German blitzkrieg as it happened, my Stukas get mercilesly slaughtered by Spitfires when they try to soften up Amsterdam and Brussels. I like the way that France waits to attack German positions prior to 1940, simulating the "Sitzkreig" of late 1939.
Too bad there is no way to duplicate the effects of isolating armies by encirclement to cut off their supplies and force surrender.
I am enjoying the game very much, and look forward to the final release.
Silica_Pathways
King
It'll make Baltic States unplayable, so i'm completly against this idea
Most unusual thing happened while playing Germany. Norway/Denmark allied themselves closely with Finland and (of all nations) Turkey! When Germany declared war in Norway/Denmark as historically done, Finland (German minor ally) and Turkey declared war on Germany for "declaring war on our friend". 
(Crash757) This is true. I did not consider that anyone would actually want to play as one of the minor countries occupied in the Nazi-Soviet Pact. I would not think anyone would choose to play Poland either.
(Crash757) This is true. I did not consider that anyone would actually want to play as one of the minor countries occupied in the Nazi-Soviet Pact. I would not think anyone would choose to play Poland either.
the USSR will get around to capturing polish and baltic state territory, trust me. sometimes i had to wait as long as near end of 1940 but as soon as the first domino falls the USSR goes crazy in knocking out minor players.
As for comments on england: try leaving your navy in cities for the first 2 turns. I found that the German navy splits up as it crosses the channel to meet the French in the S.W. Then use fighters/bombers to weaken the submarines and only then move your ships out to finish them. Even doing this, there was always more hidden submarines which sunk many of the ships next turn but at least a blockade was possible this way..
Truhart; I think since Koln produces 1 tank a turn britain needs more starting air units. If not to slow down the german advance then to destroy improvements around Koln. Gotta say i do love this convo, thread and mod
As for comments on england: try leaving your navy in cities for the first 2 turns. I found that the German navy splits up as it crosses the channel to meet the French in the S.W. Then use fighters/bombers to weaken the submarines and only then move your ships out to finish them. Even doing this, there was always more hidden submarines which sunk many of the ships next turn but at least a blockade was possible this way..
Truhart; I think since Koln produces 1 tank a turn britain needs more starting air units. If not to slow down the german advance then to destroy improvements around Koln. Gotta say i do love this convo, thread and mod
sgrig
Comrade
Well, British bombing was at first a slight problem for me (playing as Germany), and I had to keep 4 engineers on the coal mine near Koln and the plantation near Hamburg to immediately repair them. But after I put 4 Bf-109's into Koln, I had some spectacular air battles, but my improvements survived.
Concerning invasion of Poland and Baltics by USSR, events could only be triggered if these nations (Poland, Baltics, USSR) aren't controlled by the human player. In this case it will make the game more interesting as the German player, but will not take away the possibility playing as Poland or Baltics. In any case, something has to be done to give USSR part of Poland.
Concerning invasion of Poland and Baltics by USSR, events could only be triggered if these nations (Poland, Baltics, USSR) aren't controlled by the human player. In this case it will make the game more interesting as the German player, but will not take away the possibility playing as Poland or Baltics. In any case, something has to be done to give USSR part of Poland.
Paasky
Good News Everyone!
Lots of comments here, I'll answer the genral ones:
The Royal Navy is way underpowered, I'll fix this. The main reason is that the GER AI get's too many naval units to begin with.
I think the air forces are quite well done, although the brits do have a few too many if they are AI. Btw, if you want to "clear up" the skies, strike or bomb first with fighters. With luck you'll manage to destroy their planes
Then attack with bombers, after their fighters have used up their intercept turns on your fighters.
The USSR used to play the Polish attack great, I'll try to make them do it again.
Hardner:
Yes, I got it. The rivers, although some flow inland from the sea, are very good.
Nope, not releasing the final version today. There's still so much to do before I can say that this is "complete", so I'll keep WWII here for awhile. But the next update will focus on these points:
- Rivers on the map
- 3 different versions: 1939, 1940 & 1941
- Royal Navy fixed
- Soviet vs Poland fixed
- Misc. crash caused by transports & landing crafts fixed *
- Mech. & Mobile Inf are classified as infantry
*) To fix this, change the iCombat value for UNIT_TRANSPORT & UNIT_L_CRAFT into 1.
The Royal Navy is way underpowered, I'll fix this. The main reason is that the GER AI get's too many naval units to begin with.
I think the air forces are quite well done, although the brits do have a few too many if they are AI. Btw, if you want to "clear up" the skies, strike or bomb first with fighters. With luck you'll manage to destroy their planes
Then attack with bombers, after their fighters have used up their intercept turns on your fighters.The USSR used to play the Polish attack great, I'll try to make them do it again.
Hardner:
Yes, I got it. The rivers, although some flow inland from the sea, are very good.
Nope, not releasing the final version today. There's still so much to do before I can say that this is "complete", so I'll keep WWII here for awhile. But the next update will focus on these points:
- Rivers on the map
- 3 different versions: 1939, 1940 & 1941
- Royal Navy fixed
- Soviet vs Poland fixed
- Misc. crash caused by transports & landing crafts fixed *
- Mech. & Mobile Inf are classified as infantry
*) To fix this, change the iCombat value for UNIT_TRANSPORT & UNIT_L_CRAFT into 1.
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