[Xtended] New Civs (re)design

[Linvega]

That is strange. Maybe remove <NativePlane> from your code?

Been there, done that. I've also already removed bunique.

You know what, I'll simply copy&paste one of the improvements here, it's not THAT long:

<ImprovementInfo>
<Type>IMPROVEMENT_EXPLORED_TOWER_OF_EYES</Type>
<bForceOverwrite>1</bForceOverwrite>
<Description>TXT_KEY_IMPROVEMENT_TOWER_OF_EYES</Description>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_IMPROVEMENT_TOWER_OF_EYES_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<Help></Help>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_IMPROVEMENT_TOWER_OF_EYES</ArtDefineTag>
<YieldChanges>
<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
</YieldChanges>
<bActsAsCity>0</bActsAsCity>
<bHillsMakesValid>0</bHillsMakesValid>
<bFreshWaterMakesValid>0</bFreshWaterMakesValid>
<bRiverSideMakesValid>0</bRiverSideMakesValid>
<bNoFreshWater>0</bNoFreshWater>
<bRequiresFlatlands>1</bRequiresFlatlands>
<bRequiresRiverSide>0</bRequiresRiverSide>
<bRequiresIrrigation>0</bRequiresIrrigation>
<bCarriesIrrigation>0</bCarriesIrrigation>
<bRequiresFeature>0</bRequiresFeature>
<bWater>0</bWater>
<bGoody>0</bGoody>
<bPermanent>1</bPermanent>
<iAdvancedStartCost>-1</iAdvancedStartCost>
<iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>0</iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>
<iTilesPerGoody>0</iTilesPerGoody>
<iGoodyRange>0</iGoodyRange>
<iFeatureGrowth>0</iFeatureGrowth>
<iUpgradeTime>0</iUpgradeTime>
<iAirBombDefense>0</iAirBombDefense>
<iDefenseModifier>0</iDefenseModifier>
<iHappiness>0</iHappiness>
<iPillageGold>0</iPillageGold>
<bOutsideBorders>1</bOutsideBorders>
<TerrainMakesValids>
<TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_GRASS</TerrainType>
<bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
</TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_PLAINS</TerrainType>
<bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
</TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_DESERT</TerrainType>
<bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
</TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_MARSH</TerrainType>
<bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
</TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainMakesValid>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_SWAMP</TerrainType>
<bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
</TerrainMakesValid>
</TerrainMakesValids>
<FeatureMakesValids>
</FeatureMakesValids>
<BonusTypeStructs>
<BonusTypeStruct>
<BonusType>BONUS_MANA_MIND</BonusType>
<bBonusMakesValid>1</bBonusMakesValid>
<bBonusTrade>1</bBonusTrade>
<iDiscoverRand>0</iDiscoverRand>
<YieldChanges>
<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
</YieldChanges>
</BonusTypeStruct>
</BonusTypeStructs>
<ImprovementPillage></ImprovementPillage>
<ImprovementUpgrade></ImprovementUpgrade>
<TechYieldChanges>
</TechYieldChanges>
<RouteYieldChanges>
</RouteYieldChanges>
<bGraphicalOnly>0</bGraphicalOnly>
<bRequiresPeak>0</bRequiresPeak>
<bUnique>0</bUnique>
<iAppearanceProbability>0</iAppearanceProbability>
<iHealRateChange>0</iHealRateChange>
<iRange>0</iRange>
<iRangeDefenseModifier>0</iRangeDefenseModifier>
<iVisibilityChange>6</iVisibilityChange>
<BonusConvert>BONUS_MANA_MIND</BonusConvert>
<FeatureUpgrade>NONE</FeatureUpgrade>
<PrereqCivilization>NONE</PrereqCivilization>
<PythonAtRange></PythonAtRange>
<PythonOnMove></PythonOnMove>
</ImprovementInfo>

If I use this, I get the tower all over the map. If I put bunique in, I only get it once, but that's still one time too much.

 

[esvath]

IMPROVEMENT_EXPLORED_TOWER_OF_EYES

First: in case you have not found it, there is an entry for explored Tower of Eyes in Modules/NormalModules/UniqueFeaturePlus/UFPLUS_CIV4ImprovementInfos.xml.
Atm, the unique features work like this:

• the game generates unique feature using the base codes (IMPROVEMENT_TOWER_OF_EYES for example).
• the explore lair spell uses these base code as prereq.
• the explore lair removes the base improvement and replaces it with the explored version.
• the explored version "grows" into the unexplored version (like Cottage -> Town).

Second: as I observe, the explored versions use no TerrainMakesValid. Maybe this is the key so the game is not placing them? I am not so sure.

 

[Linvega]

First: in case you have not found it, there is an entry for explored Tower of Eyes in Modules/NormalModules/UniqueFeaturePlus/UFPLUS_CIV4ImprovementInfos.xml.
Atm, the unique features work like this:

• the game generates unique feature using the base codes (IMPROVEMENT_TOWER_OF_EYES for example).
• the explore lair spell uses these base code as prereq.
• the explore lair removes the base improvement and replaces it with the explored version.
• the explored version "grows" into the unexplored version (like Cottage -> Town).

Second: as I observe, the explored versions use no TerrainMakesValid. Maybe this is the key so the game is not placing them? I am not so sure.

Ah okay thank you, didn't know that. I still need custom versions of explored lairs though, and I have the same problem with them.

terrainmakesvalid is used in normal improvements(like camps etc.), too, so that can't really be the culprit, either. :/

 

[esvath]

Ah okay thank you, didn't know that. I still need custom versions of explored lairs though, and I have the same problem with them.

Have you tried to copy the code of IMPROVEMENT_TOWER_OF_EYES_EXPLORED? It might work since this explored version is not placed during map generation (the unexplored one is).

 

[Linvega]

Have you tried to copy the code of IMPROVEMENT_TOWER_OF_EYES_EXPLORED? It might work since this explored version is not placed during map generation (the unexplored one is).

Yes, that sounds like a good idea, I'll do that.

 

[Ombatur]

Some thoughts from my games with the new civs:

- It would be nice to have a use for faith when playing as mazatl or jotnar. When playing as them and going for the priest chapter to unlock some units or buildings you will end up with some faith but not use cause you cant adopt a religion. The mazatl priests can cast spells, but, especially when you are at peace, there is no way to make use of all that faith, thats piling up. Maybe it would be good to have a civ specific terraforming spell or global enchantmant that uses faith
- The epic victory condition for Jotnar seems too easy to achieve. I know these epic victories are not balanced, but usually they are much harder to achieve than the normal victory conditions so that this is not an issue.
- The Professor for Dural doesnt seem to give you science when killing a unit.
- Since all the temple replacements for Dural cost stone, i was always struggling with my stone supplies.
- When playing with Dural I felt like they were missing a unit in the lategame. I dont know what this missing unit could be though.
- Going down the priest chapter as Dural, i cant acquire the pirest guildtech where you pick one out of three depending on your alignment. I think this is due to being agnostic, because i reported a similar issue for mazatl, who are agnostic as well, in the past already.
- Playing as Dural, cottages and their upgrades are invisible. This might not be a Dural specific issue though, Dural is only the first civ for which i noticed that.
- If possible, it would be nice to have a replacement for the library as aristarkh, that doesnt require a sage district, so that the aristarkh can get some midgame science boost as well.

 

[Calavente]

I agree with the missing "STONE"...
in my recent games, I was almost always missing stone...
Metal seems to pile up easily, but stone is used in the hundreds for many buidlings, especially for UB... and in many improvments
even Wood (also used for buildings) seems affordable : it doesn't come easily, but if you work a bit for it you can produce enough : a few lumber mills, + wonder or civic, or sawmills...Etc allow for having an input of lumber in the 20+50 quite easily... plus you can always cut some woods to get emergency lumber. And a lumbermill-riverside forest is somewhat interesing even without the lumber : 1F,2H,1C +3-5L.
Artisan guild improves metal yields,
Hunter guild improves Lumber and Leather yields
... nothing really improves stones...
however, stone is lacking... quarry don't bring much (0F2-3H, 1C, 2S)... and neither do trading posts, and you need to have excess food in order to be able to pursue it.
Stone and marble are quite rare and are the only real and reliable source of stone.
There is no "quick way" to get some stone.

Could we have a way to improve stone rate ? :

• have workers (or slaves??) use a spell in quarries for producing a few "stone/turn" ?
• have a tech compatible with building bricks allowing a building which gives a few stones/turn in city?
• having stonemason giving +20% (or more) stones in city (on top of the improved %Hammers)
• sacrifice a Slave in quarry for giving a quick +100 Stones ? (or in cities ?)
• have Slaves joining cities to become slave specialists (but not like mekara) with a +1stones/turn output ?
• have all hills produce 1stone/turn as additional base yield ?
• ...Etc

thanks for reading.

 

[Alexej]

There is wonder Agravaines Supplies form currence improving trade posts to add +2stone +2lumber I do never play without it, warehouse district trough merchants guild can help you lot with stone too, also you can take Builder trait, but there are many interesting choices. For example Creative will help you not spend resoruces on culture buildings.
After finishing 3rd game I am sure Rangers guild can give you lead in culture trough domesticated animals not to mention awesome Elephant conservation and there is allways enough animals in Erebus to upgrade your cities. This makes this guild too important compared to others in my opinion.

Question : Elohim monks can`t use even their Seals of Fury and Defiance maybe allow them those atleast? They are not weapon nor armour

 

[Calavente]

Dear Alexej, may I retort to your arguments ?
- Agravine Supplies is far away, needs to sacrifice a guild, and boost stone AND lumber... so that doesn't really resolve the issue of stone being much harder to get that lumber (and warehouse district is the same... it boost indiscriminately metal, lumber and stone. and you need to have some raw stone before it brings some worth.)
- builder trait ? (I don't remember what it does) (and buying a trait costs much culture... and you need stone quite early).
- Help from not spending on buildings ? I agree, it helps... However on the whole it also helps lumber costs. and the UB (Jotnar, Elohim...etc) are not in those trait-helped.

for me, those are placeholder solutions, which do not alleviate that stone is much harder to get than lumber or herbs (the other construction materials) while it should be the one that is the most abundant (bare rocks are plentiful) and is also in need for many buildings and should be usable as a rush-build (with artisan guildhall or with Arete ? "use stone to rush buy buildings". However, in practice, I never have enough stone for my buildings/improvements, so how could I rush buy ?

 

[Alexej]

Builder does that, you can rush buidlings with stone and spend less on everything by 33%. What sacrifice of guild? Agravaines Supplies needs only Currency right after Festivals and thats in scientific research. While playing recon style and not needing metals from mines I tend to build many quarries on start so maybe thats the reason I don`t feel that much stone shortage. I will start dwarves now so I might end up with same troubles you had

 

[Calavente]

haha.
when playing I usually go for food, food, food... and ressource improvement.
then, I add a few mines / quarries / lumbermills for production and a bit of yield.
and very few trade post/cottage for money. (unless they are favorite improvement).

as such, I have low stone, lumber and metal income (and quarries need excess food to work them, and don't produce much yield, while mines and lumbermill give more yield)
however, metal stills comes quickly enough (the palaces I recently played give some) + metal is mostly used for weapons and melee higher level units... so expenses are limited (building "no-yield units" or mobility units which are leather-based units or archery units which are lumber-based).
lumber, as I said, can be an issue but not as much as stone, as I can cut forests when in need of lumber. and there is a civic that increases food and lumber .

further, while for Elohim I could somehow manage, for Jotnar, it seems harder.
For Elohim (even if it was a perpetual combat to gain stone), I could have big cities in order to work a few quarries without much impact on city growth and thus on city culture/faith/science/gold input.
however for Jotnar, with 5 food/citizen, I have low-size cities... and most citizens are working food-tiles ... and I can barerly divert citizens to work non-food ressource.
So to have stone income, I would need to have 5 excess Food/turn (or a free citizen, earned from food from hunting animals) and devote him to a no-food tile... and this, only to get a meager +2stones/turn...
when you have your biggest cities capped at size 5-8 (due to being in plains), your stone income is limited.
and for Jotnar, they have interestings UB... but those are at 200-500 stones minimum : 100-250 turns of yield of that quarry ! and no trait reduction.

(and I noticed, in my last game, that when pillaging a quarry you never earn "stone" but only gold ...)

well, maybe this is in fact more an issue for jotnar than for others.

 

[Alexej]

Ouch, didn`t played Jotnar but from your post it sounds like really harsh conditions to develop

 

[Covr]

Hi! I have finished a few games and there are some general balance issues with the latest ver of the mod:
- too much leather. I've been equiping my forces with leather armor, havent been building tanneries and still got few thosands of sparse leather at the end of my games. I recommend lowering the amount by 50%.
-similar with metal but with smaller scale, should be reduced by 20,%
- as it was mentioned before there is not enough lumber and stone. Even at the late game the problem occurs. Building palisades at turn 350+ is a joke
- military forces limit should be increased. Even with military state civic you can't have large armies, especially with wide civilisations and having two or more wars at the same time. Player should have possibility to recruit larger armies if he can afford it.
- for my taste having possibility to recruit an archery unit should be earlier than is now. It's a long way until you get an archer while barbarians are spawning with more powerful units every X turns.

Sorry for spelling mistakes, writing from the phone.

 

[Alexej]

I disagree with lumber, I had like 150000 last game with Elohim though with rangers guild, building sawmills and enchanted sawmills. Are you building lumbermills?
In my last game I had 3 cities with warrior district, one with temple district and 3 or 4 with bard district and I was able to field 96 units, though that number is buffed by order religion and Altar of Battle from Life Magic. If you want larger armies you need to specialize your cities for it. Also you can garrisson 4 units in each city costing you no support. And my own stack of doom on deity difficulty usually has 12-15 members. You can defeat everyone with that number properly leveled and equipped. When at war with more civs mobility is key and thats hard to achieve without recon or mounted units so some civs are far better at multi-wars than others

 

[Covr]

96 units for such low number of cities is impressive and insane, I am going to post some screenshots later from home. I believe that I have 10+ cities with 2-3 warrior districts plus military state civic and the limit is set to 32 units.

 

[Alexej]

Are you building training yards, barracks and everything that increases support? I need to check that game of mine too... pretty sure about that limit but not about number of cities. I have 3 sage districts and two merchants with those 8 noble number seems to be 13 but I have like 16 cities there. But it shouldn`t make such difference. Those Altars of Battle are giving +1 support per city (even non-noble) and Chapel (Bannor Pagan Temple) is also making +1 per city, that gives number of cities x2 support advantage for combination Bannor+Life Magic. Not Elohim though.
Barrack +2 Support
Training Yard +2 Support
Warrior District +1 Support
War Academy +4 Support
So dedicated city can support 9 with Life Magic = Altar of Battle 10
City with Temple or Bard district can build everything except Warrior District making it 8-9. I do think its enough units. Maybe you don`t have all support techs unlocked?

 

[Covr]

It seems I know where the problem is: I am playing Sidar and they don't get any bonuses for barracks/training yards. Got 3 Warrior Discrict, overall summary below:

 

[Alexej]

Oh Sidar, yes they have special tactic their buildings are leveling stationed units automaticaly, didn`t played them yet with new version so can`t give advice

 

[esvath]

I am playing Sidar and they don't get any bonuses for barracks/training yards.

Yes, that is correct. Unlike other civs, Sidar can not mass produced their army. They are more defensive in nature and should aim for Tower/Cultural victory.

While atm, the "lost in mist" mechanic can help Sidar defense, I have plan to buff their defensive buildings. Any thought/suggestion?

 

[Covr]

Maybe some non military buildings should give extra defence? Like Hunting logde +5 def, Forgery +2, etc? I can imagine 10-15 diffetent buildings, spreaded across different guilds, giving small def bonuses.