"You are a bad Belgian and you have signed your own death warrant."

Bozo Erectus

Master Baker
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
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More fun with burkhas:
"You are a bad Belgian and you have signed your own death warrant."

That was the message to factory owner Rik Remmery when he opened his mail one morning just before Christmas.

For ex-policeman Rik it was only the start of an angry and chilling tirade of threatening post.

Further letters put a 250,000 euro ($326,000; £173,000) price on his head and a final package contained a bullet.

By now the letters were coming to his family home as well as his factory. "December," another letter read "will be a nightmare." The death threats against Rik were caused by one simple fact - he employed a Muslim woman who wore a headscarf to work.

Somebody, somewhere in the small town of Ledegem in West Flanders did not like that and was prepared to take extreme action unless Rik sacked Naima Amzil.

But Rik stood firm.

"She's worked here for eight years. I accepted her with a headscarf and I will not change my mind because of one sick person," he said.

Removing the scarf

Naima was horrified when she found out about the threats. She could not believe someone would react to her simple white headscarf in such a manner.

Originally from Morocco, she had done everything possible to integrate into Belgian society - speaking French and Dutch and carrying a Belgian passport.

Her work colleagues rallied around her. The Unizo union of independent employers organised an internet petition of support which eventually racked up more than 25,000 names.

But as the letters kept coming, the pressure and fear grew. In the end, with the police at a dead end in their investigation, Naima decided to act.

She removed her headscarf to work on the factory floor. Health and safety regulations meant she wore a hairnet at work anyway and that allowed her to stay true to her religious beliefs.

Royal sympathy

It was a traumatic action to undertake. She cried for hours that day.

"It was very, very difficult. It was like a piece of me was taken away. The whole day I felt bad," said Naima.

Belgium's King Albert was on holiday in France and saw a report about events in Ledegem on television. He contacted the factory and invited Rik and Naima - in headscarf - to the royal palace for a televised audience.

For the king, it was important to send a message out that religious intolerance was unacceptable.

Naima and Rik's story is symptomatic of the suspicion and extremism rearing its head against many of Europe's Muslims.

In other parts of Belgium, political pressure is forcing local police to enforce rules that are hard to explain to the Muslim community.

Police vigilance

In Antwerp - a city with a 50,000-strong Muslim community - police can now reprimand, or even imprison, women found dressed in the burka (full body covering) on the streets of the city.

The police stress that this is an old regulation - originally designed to stop people covering their faces completely in masks at carnival time. It is all about public safety.

"When you're patrolling as a police officer, you should see the faces of people. Because if you can't see the faces, you don't know who it is, what they want to do," said commissioner Francois Vermeulen of Antwerp police.

"If you put on a Mickey Mouse mask and you start walking around in Antwerp, you will be stopped by the police. It's that simple. It's not only women in a burka or a headscarf and a veil."

But the police admit that the women they have stopped for this reason do not know about, or do not understand, the statute.

Back in Ledegen the police are still at a loss. The threatening letters have stopped for the time being, but the unpleasant feeling of a home-grown extremism remains.

"In a small town like this, everybody knows everybody. I think it must be a skinhead, a neo-Nazi, a neo-fascist, someone like that. I really don't know," said Rik.

On the factory floor, Naima is hard at work packing prawns and other delicacies produced by the factory.

She is still putting on a brave face.

"When I arrived here in my headscarf Rik said it was no problem. I never thought there would come a time when I would take it off. Now I just hope there'll be a day when I can come back to work with my headscarf on again."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4223307.stm

Veil hatred continues to sweep through Europe, this time Belgium. Youd have thought that after 9/11 it would be the U.S. behaving this way, not Europe. Is this anti Muslim feeling going to keep growing? What are the root causes of it? Where is Europe heading in regard to Muslims?

ACHTUNG ALL FASCISTS: Go make your own threads:mad:
 
Unlike Christians, if a Muslim is struck, he will strike back twice as hard.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
What are the root causes of it? Where is Europe heading in regard to Muslims?

The general intolerance, violence, and hatred that comes out the Muslim world.

This kind of hatred towards Muslims isn't just happening in Europe. You'll see it in India, African nations with a Christian majority, China (Muslim Uighurs), etc. It’s been going on since the birth of Mohammed and the only thing that will stop the hate towards Muslims is if they stop their blind rage and intolerance towards non-Muslim peoples. Everybody is getting tired of the garbage and stupidity that comes out of countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, and Iraq. I don't think too highly of people who still believe that beating women, destroying non-Muslim religions, and blowing oneself up in the name of oh-mighty Allah is the path towards salvation.

Every single one of my Indian relatives (who are Sikh) hates Muslims with a burning passion because their still infuriated at the persecution they received under local Muslim princes.

Until Islamic scholars start teaching respect and tolerance towards non-Muslims then I will never have any respect for Islam. Just like I don’t have respect for nutcase Christians like Fred Phelps.

Edit:

Azadre said:
Unlike Christians, if a Muslim is struck, he will strike back twice as hard.

^^ See what I mean? :rolleyes: ^^
 
Riesstiu IV said:
The Every single one of my Indian relatives (who are Sikh) hates Muslims with a burning passion because their still infuriated at the persecution they received under local Muslim princes.
Sikhs have pretty much waged an eternal war against Muslims because a Muslim ruler killed their chief guru several hundred years ago. :rolleyes:
 
I posted the original story first, now heres today's update: She finally had to quit her job.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4315837.stm

From the original article:

"
"When you're patrolling as a police officer, you should see the faces of people. Because if you can't see the faces, you don't know who it is, what they want to do," said commissioner Francois Vermeulen of Antwerp police.

"If you put on a Mickey Mouse mask and you start walking around in Antwerp, you will be stopped by the police. It's that simple. It's not only women in a burka or a headscarf and a veil."
(sigh):rolleyes: So tell us commisioner, how is Belgium dealing with the problem of thousands of people walking through the streets with Mickey Mouse masks on? Oh? Nobody is walking around in Mickey Mouse masks? I see. Can you tell me how many incidents have police had with Muslim women since this 'old' law started being enforced? Ten thousand? I see. No further questions your honor. (snaps briefcase shut with a flourish)
 
You shouldn't believe everything you read. I'm serious. I know this is an important issue for you, but I live in the Netherlands and a lot of people wear headscarfs in the city where I live without any problems at all! It's normal and accepted. :)

Sure there are people who are crazy and want to see no headscarfs at all. But they are not a majority by a long strech.

I think you know my own position in this. I personally see headscarfs as a symbol of oppression: a lady showing her hair is supposedly trying to seduce the men around her, and I am not convinced women in certain communties are totally free to make the choice to wear them or not. This doesn't mean that I support people who want to ban scarfs in public functions.

I do feel that you have the wrong impression of what is going on in Europe. Fact is that there is need of public debate about how the differnt communities interact and there is much to be improved. I suppose it's only natural that only the crazy stories find their way into the non-European press. :sad:
 
Space, no doubt youre right that its very easy for me to have a distorted image of whats happening, since I can only go by what I read in the media. Just for the record though, I get most of my news from the BBC, including this article. If I was getting this from FOX news that would be something else;)
 
blindside said:
Sikhs have pretty much waged an eternal war against Muslims because a Muslim ruler killed their chief guru several hundred years ago. :rolleyes:

I suppose so but I really don't know anything about Sikhism.

But this deep rift between the peoples of India happened well before Sikhism was even a religion. When Muslim invaders first entered my mom's home town centuries ago, they rounded up all the males (boys and men) into the central plaza and gave them a choice to except Allah or be decapitated on the spot. Prior to this, nobody had ever heard of a holy war in the name of god. There were ideological conflicts between Buddhism and Hinduism but they never resulted in mass scale holy wars.

Religions in general always seem to promote violence or some sort of conflict but most religions in our modern day world have progressed past these petty differences in ideology but I've yet to see a Muslim cleric call for tolerance towards a non-Muslim religion. Christianity went through a long period of brutal violence and wars motivated by god but Christianity has gotten better at resorting to non-violent methods over the centuries but why hasn’t this happened in the Middle East for Islam? Of course there are plenty of intolerant Christians (I’m in the middle of a very religious town) but most would never resort to violence or forced conversions.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Space, no doubt youre right that its very easy for me to have a distorted image of whats happening, since I can only go by what I read in the media. Just for the record though, I get most of my news from the BBC, including this article. If I was getting this from FOX news that would be something else;)

Bozo, pardon my cynicism/pessimism (this being Thursday and all) but I fail to see why you are surprised about this and why you seek an explanation of this incident.

Far as I can see, this is normal. Tolerance would have been abnormal and requires an explanation. Neither has this to do anything with Europeans or Americans or Muslims. Homo Sapiens in general have been programmed almost in a Pavlovian way to be wary of anyone who does not look/act/behave like them. This us vs them mentality has served us very well for many millenia. So why should we act surprised when we resort to this age old drive?

hence, The real question is not why this happened, but why are you outraged/surprised by this incident? That is aberrant and requires an explanation. Once we know that then perhaps we can get into a fruitful analysis. Then perhaps we can even consider whether we should inculcate more outrage among others or squash it and live like our ancestors. The possibilities are endless!
 
Azadre said:
Unlike Christians, if a Muslim is struck, he will strike back twice as hard.
Christians don't strike back? I'm Christian, and if somebody attacked me I'd be sure to make sure the assailant leaves the scene of the intended malevolence needing to pop Advils for at least a week.
 
Amenhotep7 said:
Christians don't strike back? I'm Christian, and if somebody attacked me I'd be sure to make sure the assailant leaves the scene of the intended malevolence needing to pop Advils for at least a week.
He's refering to Jesus' admonition to turn the other cheek.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Antwerp ruled by the Flaams Blok, easily one of the most right-wing extremist parties in charge anywhere in Europe? The FPÖ or Berlusconi's coalition are liberals compared to them...
This is a sad story, no question. But, it is not typical for Europe in any way, much like the child abuse crimes in Belgium aren't typical. And, it is hardly related with the French anti-religious symbols law.
Don't agree with TLC about the resoans behind; I do think anti-muslim feelings are caused partially by idiocies of Islamic countries, as well as by the way some (!) Muslim idots act in Europe (like the recent murder in Berlin).
The usuall xenophobic Neonazi doesn't write letters, he prefers to beat on the next Ausländer or Linke Zecke he can get hold of. Such a campaign is more typical for organized Nazis.
 
Are you suggesting that I don't think that it's wrong what happened there, betazed? Of course it is! I just don't understand why they didn't just try to find out who it was that sent the letters and tell everybody that wearing the veil is permitted?

The article suggests that this happens al lot. And I don't think that *that* is true. Like I said, yes there are people with racist tendencies, and yes there are those in the police force too. I think it compares in a way to the situation of "african americans" in the US. The crime rate within the "Maroccan" community is higher than average, so the police tends to watch them more closely, which in turn leads to frustrations.
 
The Last Conformist said:
He's refering to Jesus' admonition to turn the other cheek.
Ah, I see.
 
betazed said:
Bozo, pardon my cynicism/pessimism (this being Thursday and all) but I fail to see why you are surprised about this and why you seek an explanation of this incident.

Far as I can see, this is normal. Tolerance would have been abnormal and requires an explanation. Neither has this to do anything with Europeans or Americans or Muslims. Homo Sapiens in general have been programmed almost in a Pavlovian way to be wary of anyone who does not look/act/behave like them. This us vs them mentality has served us very well for many millenia. So why should we act surprised when we resort to this age old drive?

hence, The real question is not why this happened, but why are you outraged/surprised by this incident? That is aberrant and requires an explanation. Once we know that then perhaps we can get into a fruitful analysis. Then perhaps we can even consider whether we should inculcate more outrage among others or squash it and live like our ancestors. The possibilities are endless!
You couldnt be more correct. This is all perfectly natural behavior, instinctive. The difference between us and other animals though is that we can make choices. A society can go one of two ways, closed and racist, or open and welcoming to diversity. One good way to avoid ethnic strife is to put a big spotlight on racism. Point it out, put the light on it and discuss it. Hatred grows quietly in the dark, like mushrooms.

@Space: The BBC is about as European as I can handle. If it were any more European I wouldnt be able to read it:lol:

edit: wouldnt be able to read it because it wouldnt be in English;)
 
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
Don't agree with TLC about the resoans behind; I do think anti-muslim feelings are caused partially by idiocies of Islamic countries, as well as by the way some (!) Muslim idots act in Europe (like the recent murder in Berlin).
I didn't say that it has nothing to do with the idiocies of Islamic countries. And I didn't even touch on the less-than-exemplary behaviour of certain immigrants. I was just saying that I think that simple xenophobia is a more important factor than the conditions of the Islamic world.
 
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