"Your maps have proven that the world is round"

[Morholt]

This is a bit of nonsense. The roundness of the earth was never proven by maps, in fact the Greeks proved it mathematically long before the age of exploration.

While the geocentric worldview with a clover-shaped earth with Jerusalem in the middle was the official stance of the church during the middle ages, educated people and scholars knew full well that the world was round. Columbus himself had no doubts about it, even though he misestimated the circumference rather horribly - he believed that the western way to india would be rather short.

In short, while the "You are the first to circumnavigate the earth" message was historical and appropriate, the new one is not. The change seems a bit silly to me.

Just saying.

 

[snarko]

The circumnavitage message wasn't always correct either, you could often get it by trading maps. Either way you go you end up being wrong (sometimes).

 

[synyster]

Yeah i never liked the fact you could get the circumnavigation bonus from trading maps, kinda defeated the object of circumnavigating

 

[uppi]

The only thing "the Greeks" knew was that the surface of the earth was curved. The (actually wrong) assumption that the earth is a sphere was from philosophical reasons rather than actual evidence. They calculated the radius of the assumed sphere, but they had no proof that the earth actually was a sphere.

For all they knew, the earth could be a hemisphere carried by a giant turtle. For proof one way or another exploration is needed until you either encounter a black void or you have proof that you indeed can get to the same point by always heading in one direction.

And this is Civ, not Earth, so you can have a flat earth. Unless you look at the map settings, there is no way to know whether the world is round until you either encounter the end of the world or explore enough of it.

 

[Spearthrower]

It wasn't widely accepted in Ancient Greece, but some Greek thinkers did postulate not only that the earth is a sphere, but also fairly accurate dimensions for it.

The problem is that prior to the Greeks, many other civilisations also "knew" that the world was spherical..... many times you may not get a direct statement like "We know the world is round!".... but other texts found imply a knowledge of it.

For the game, I'd say that the new way is more accurate *for the game*! There were many times where I map traded my way into +1 "circumnavigation" bonus, and especially when playing as a landlocked civ, that really made no sense.

From a real world perspective.... I guess you could say that it was never really *proven* in the absolute sense of the word until Flight.

 

[Merkinball]

First it was Capernicus. But there wasn't really observable proof until Galileo noticed moons around Jupiter, and "phases" of Venus which completely dismantled the earth centric universe.

 

[uppi]

It wasn't widely accepted in Ancient Greece, but some Greek thinkers did postulate not only that the earth is a sphere, but also fairly accurate dimensions for it.

Yes, but there is quite a difference between "postulating and being lucky that it was close to the truth" and "knowing"

 

[travisj]

The world is flat, everyone knows that. I almost fell off yesterday. It was scary, like a bad movie with some terrible actor playing ronald mcdonald.

In all seriousness, at least its in there to add some flavor.

 

[GeorgeOP]

Even circumnavigation doesn't prove the world was round. It could have been a cylinder. It wasn't proven until we put a man in space and he turned around to look.

 

[Lord_Azazel]

travisj, i thought it was only a small troll, but then i saw your join date, 2004, and this is your first post, im amazed

 

[Spearthrower]

Yes, but there is quite a difference between "postulating and being lucky that it was close to the truth" and "knowing"

Some ancient people's postulations are still being found to be true now.

What else do you have when proof is out of reach?


GeorgeOP - originally I was going to say spaceflight, but simple flight also proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[travisj]

travisj, i thought it was only a small troll, but then i saw your join date, 2004, and this is your first post, im amazed

Yea, I tend to just lurk alot of forums . I just felt like posting because BTS has really sparked my interest in CIV again.

 

[yavoon]

The only thing "the Greeks" knew was that the surface of the earth was curved. The (actually wrong) assumption that the earth is a sphere was from philosophical reasons rather than actual evidence. They calculated the radius of the assumed sphere, but they had no proof that the earth actually was a sphere.

For all they knew, the earth could be a hemisphere carried by a giant turtle. For proof one way or another exploration is needed until you either encounter a black void or you have proof that you indeed can get to the same point by always heading in one direction.

And this is Civ, not Earth, so you can have a flat earth. Unless you look at the map settings, there is no way to know whether the world is round until you either encounter the end of the world or explore enough of it.

the greeks thought the earth was a sphere, and the earth is a sphere, unless ur talking about the miniscule centrifugal bulge at the center. its a nice bit of trivia, but it doesn't change the macro shape of the planet.

 

[m9x]

the greeks thought the earth was a sphere

and you know this because?

 

[yavoon]

and you know this because?

they measured its circumference. seem pretty superfluous to measure the circumference of a flat object.

 

[a_civilian]

And this is Civ, not Earth, so you can have a flat earth. Unless you look at the map settings, there is no way to know whether the world is round until you either encounter the end of the world or explore enough of it.

Actually you just need Stonehenge or Calendar...

 

[Wackyduck]

they measured its circumference. seem pretty superfluous to measure the circumference of a flat object.

No they estimated the circumference by measuring the lenghts of shadows at different places and assuming a spherical earth.

 

[NyukXI]

The game has Louis XIV say that he is the best dressed person in the history of the universe, and when giving Mana Musa a gift, he's told me "Did you ever know that you're my hero, you're everything I wish that I could be" (I don't know if they all will say that). The game is meant to be kind of silly.

 

[m9x]

they measured its circumference. seem pretty superfluous to measure the circumference of a flat object.

I wanted to read myself from the source, nothing else

 

[yavoon]

No they estimated the circumference by measuring the lenghts of shadows at different places and assuming a spherical earth.

yes, but the shadows would only be like that if the earth WAS spherical. u can also tell the earth is spherical through horizon observations, masts on ships, tall objects as u move away from them. infact I believe there are many more ways to induce the earth is a sphere, including lunar eclipses, etc...

"The idea of a spherical Earth was first suggested by Pythagoras of Samos (580-500 BCE), about 300 years before Eratosthenes [20, p.1]. The spherical Earth model did not begin to gain widespread acceptance among scholars until the well reasoned arguments of Aristotle (384-322 BCE), only about 100 years before Eratosthenes [4, p.59]. Around the time of Eratosthenes, the globe was becoming a popular model of the Earth as many Greek scholars came to accept the idea of a spherical Earth [20, pp.2 ]"