Your thoughts on the Janissary?

[CivIVMonger]

I like the Janissary as it is a multy-purpose unit. Good vs. everything but cannons. Also, unlike it's Musketman counterpart, It is good at offence. Plus, it requires no resources but hammers, so it is ideal. It definantly ranks up there on my top five favorite UU's. Thoughts?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's very good overall. Keep in mind that it's also not so hot vs other muskets though, if you're on the offensive. Still, draft jans are very powerful and are on the way to cannons.

 

[Xellos-_^]

nice stopgap unit but kinda late and if someone wants to (i usually do) they can beeline to rifleman pretty quick after gunpowder. My favorite UU is the Roman Poaterian(sp?), and NA Dog Soldiers and the Viking berserker.

 

[DigitalBoy]

I like the Janissary as it is a multy-purpose unit. Good vs. everything but cannons. Also, unlike it's Musketman counterpart, It is good at offence. Plus, it requires no resources but hammers, so it is ideal. It definantly ranks up there on my top five favorite UU's. Thoughts?

Muskets are still fine on offense. Against defending longbowmen, they're about equal to, or perhaps even superior, to macemen as a city raider. But the obvious advantage to them is that they have no hard counters in the medieval era; they can have some trouble with knights, but macemen do too and muskets have an easier time of it.

Janissaries, on the other hand, are the next best thing behind a pikeman to fight knights with, and they clean everything else up nicely too. Obviously a superb unit if you can find the opportunity to use them.

 

[AfterShafter]

Great unit. It's basically a grenadier VS any non-gunpowder unit. I'm just about to get them in a game I'm... Oh, Suryavarman is going to get it

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Note that they're on the way to cannons, and make GREAT cover for the cannons + taking the city afterward. Muskets in general are underrated as you can accumulate a lot of them quickly while actually building other things thanks to the draft. If you wait for rifles sometimes the AI will get closer to rifles too, whereas if you go with musket + cannon you get to fight weaker troops while the cannons still do the heavy lifting.

 

[binhthuy71]

Muskets are definitely under rated. They don't require a resource resource, are Str 9 out of the box and only cost ten more hammers than a mace. Combined with Cannons they can assure that your neighbors don't last long enough to get rifles.

 

[CivIVMonger]

Great unit. It's basically a grenadier VS any non-gunpowder unit. I'm just about to get them in a game I'm... Oh, Suryavarman is going to get it

Hey your back AfterShafter!
Haven't seen you in a few weeks!

 

[AfterShafter]

Heh, I've been on the road. Actually, still am, so my posting is erratic and short.

 

[CivIVMonger]

Safe Travels!

 

[fed1943]

The problem with muskets (and janissaries) is their opportunity window is narrow.

 

[Iranon]

They are a good unit, but I far prefer Oromos. They are equally good for a musket-based offense and keep promotions that stick, allowing a renwewed push with highly-promoted Riflemen or even Infantry.

The latter might not be immediately obvious, here is how it works: Start with Oromos teching towards Steel, go to town once you have Cannons. More than good enough until your opponent has their own post-Musket units, at which point the party is mostly over anyway.
For this reason, you can postpone Rifling until after Assembly Line, at which point you can mass-upgrade your Oromos to Infantry for another overwhelming advantage.

 

[Kierkegaard]

Mmm I usually rush to rifling so I don't get to use a janissary much.

 

[Flying Pig]

I don't generally play Ottomans, but when I do I use the unit a lot.

 

[sydhe]

I'm playing the Ottomans now, and building a lot of Janissaries, which are doing a great job finishing off longbowmen and macemen. I'm often giving them melee and cover promotions, and some of them the promotion that kills off horse units. I'm in no rush to rifling. I like city raider three grenadiers. (Obtained by upgrading macemen.)

I guess when the enemy get gunpowder units, the romp will be over.

 

[braindrain]

i absolutely love draftable, resourse free uu's

plus jans are so darn good lookin too!

i like to get nationalism with liberalism, with gunpowder one short tec away, and hello world domination!

oromos are really strong too, but imo jans stand up to a counter attack a lot better, especially if there are a lot of knights who make all them nice first strike capabilities worthless

 

[Ghpstage]

oromos are really strong too, but imo jans stand up to a counter attack a lot better, especially if there are a lot of knights who make all them nice first strike capabilities worthless

Why would Jans fare any better? They are both equal against knights, in fact Oromos are better due to Drill 2 opening access to the Formation promotion to counter mounted units.

For general counter attacks, Oromo first strikes make them more likely to survive with no damage, the Drill line reduces collateral damage and they are naturally immune to first strikes, and the the Drill promos don't obsolete with the unit!
I would argue that Oromos are quite a lot better than Jans, though Jans are definately a very good UU.

I do agree with the "muskets are underrated" sentiment in this thread, draftable, hard to counter and effective general purpose units that come on the way to Steel are hard to turn down!

 

[AfterShafter]

Why would Jans fare any better? They are both equal against knights, in fact Oromos are better due to Drill 2 opening access to the Formation promotion to counter mounted units.

For general counter attacks, Oromo first strikes make them more likely to survive with no damage, the Drill line reduces collateral damage and they are naturally immune to first strikes, and the the Drill promos don't obsolete with the unit!
I would argue that Oromos are quite a lot better than Jans, though Jans are definately a very good UU.

I do agree with the "muskets are underrated" sentiment in this thread, draftable, hard to counter and effective general purpose units that come on the way to Steel are hard to turn down!

Wha? Oromos have drill 1, 2, and a first strike, and knights are immune to first strikes whereas the Janisarry gets +25% vs mounted units. They're notably better VS Knights than Oromo warriors. I find Jans better in their age with Oromos being better over the long term because they keep their drills on upgrade.

 

[Ghpstage]

Wha? Oromos have drill 1, 2, and a first strike, and knights are immune to first strikes whereas the Janisarry gets +25% vs mounted units. They're notably better VS Knights than Oromo warriors. I find Jans better in their age with Oromos being better over the long term because they keep their drills on upgrade.

Oops lol forgot Jans had the 25% to mounted too
Though early access to formation does still reduce the weakness considerably imo

 

[DigitalBoy]

Oops lol forgot Jans had the 25% to mounted too
Though early access to formation does still reduce the weakness considerably imo

Technically, it does, but there is one problem with oromos against knights...

If you want to promote down the drill line, and you know you want to, you end up with a lot of units promoted in a way that makes them inefficient against knights.