[C3C] Zones of Control

[AnthonyBoscia]

Is there any documentation that shows exactly how zone of control attacks are calculated? It seems, anecdotally to me anyway, that the unit with the ZoC uses its attack value rolled against the moving unit's defense value. Neither the manual nor the civilopedia spell this out precisely. How does bombard strength factor into this? In unmodded Civ 3, the radar artillery has a ZoC, but no attack value. Has this ever been properly tested or confirmed? Thank you in advance for your input.

 

[Vuldacon]

Anthony... Not exactly sure but because only 1 health is knocked off the Unit by all Units that have ZOC, it appears that the ZOC programing is set up to only injure another Unit by 1 health regardless of the attacking Power of the ZOC Unit.

 

[Flintlock]

It just so happens I was recently reading the game's logic for zone of control. The game does roll to apply damage based on the intercepting unit's strength and the moving unit's defense. The specific formula for the probability to take damage is: 1 - (D*16 / (D*16 + A)), where D is the moving unit's defense strength and A is the intercepting unit's attack or bombard strength, whichever is higher. The game will always select the strongest available unit to try to do damage.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Very interesting. Thanks for checking this. That explains why high offense units are usually the ones to attack over artillery units.

 

[Civinator]

It just so happens I was recently reading the game's logic for zone of control. The game does roll to apply damage based on the intercepting unit's strength and the moving unit's defense. The specific formula for the probability to take damage is: 1 - (D*16 / (D*16 + A)), where D is the moving unit's defense strength and A is the intercepting unit's attack or bombard strength, whichever is higher. The game will always select the strongest available unit to try to do damage.

Your great formula is now a part of the CCM Ingame Help.

 

[Alekseyev_]

You continue to be our hero, Flintlock

 

[Vuldacon]

Flintlock... I find it interesting that only 1 health point is reduced from the Moving Unit's Health Bar regardless of the Strength of the Defending SOC Unit.
There must be additional programing that limits the Damage to the moving Unit.

 

[Theov]

Flintlock... I find it interesting that only 1 health point is reduced from the Moving Unit's Health Bar regardless of the Strength of the Defending SOC Unit.
There must be additional programing that limits the Damage to the moving Unit.

The unit attacks one time.
The outcome is binary and costs one HP.

 

[Vuldacon]

The unit attacks one time.
The outcome is binary and costs one HP.

This was what I meant in Post #2. There is really no point to try to calculate ZOC Defending Units Strengths vs the Moving Units. One HP is removed.
That said, I have Not tested an extremely low strength ZOC Unit against an extremely high strength Moving Unit.

 

[Alekseyev_]

What? Of course there is a point, Flintlock gave the formula. A unit with higher defense is less likely to lose the hit point, a unit with more attack is more likely to take it. And especially the defensive strength matters a lot as it is multiplied by 16.

 

[Vuldacon]

Alekseyev_ ... If you just want to know if 1 Hit Point will be removed by a Defending ZOC Unit, then the formula will help of course.
My Point is that when damage is done, only 1 Hit Point damage is done regardless of the Strengths of the Units.

 

[Alekseyev_]

Yes, because no combat takes place. A unit moves past an enemy unit with ZOC, and then the game checks this formula to see if 1 HP is removed or not. It's not a normal combat or bombardement attack taking place, it's an entirely different function that only runs a single time, taking 1 HP or 0, with higher attack causing higher chances of 1.

 

[Vuldacon]

Combat has nothing to do with what I am saying... IF a Unit has Extreme Power, then 1 Hit should remove more than 1 Hit Point from another Unit
That is the Programing for ZOC Not considering the Power of a Hit from an Extremely Powerful Unit that would Remove much more than 1 Hit Point.

 

[Flintlock]

Combat has nothing to do with what I am saying... IF a Unit has Extreme Power, then 1 Hit should remove more than 1 Hit Point from another Unit
That is the Programing for ZOC Not considering the Power of a Hit from an Extremely Powerful Unit that would Remove much more than 1 Hit Point.

I've been thinking about this. I'm working on ZoC anyway right now, so might as well cover as many requests as I can. It would be possible, easy in fact, to insert some code that runs right after the game's base ZoC logic and applies additional damage depending on the units' stats. The question is how much additional damage should be done. When the intercepting unit uses its bombard strength, the natural thing to do would be to use its rate of fire to give it multiple chances to do damage. However when a unit uses its attack strength, I'm not sure what would make the most sense. I'm thinking of giving the unit an additional chance to do damage for each movement point it has over the defending unit. That would make sense since attack units with ZoC generally have high movement (ex. cavalry, modern armor), and the zone of control is presumably supposed to simulate hit-and-run attacks.

 

[Vuldacon]

Flintlock... ZOC for the Attacking Units:
Rate of Fire using Bombard Strength and Movement Point using Attack Strength would be most appropriate.

 

[Ozymandias]

From "civ-wiki.de" -

"A unit that has a control zone has the chance to attack enemy units that cross it during the enemy round without any danger of its own.

• A single attack is carried out with a fraction of the attack strength of the unit with control zone against the defensive value of the moving unit. This has about sixteenths of the normal value (here more detailed investigations are necessary). The defense value of the moving units does not enjoy bonuses from the terrain.
• This chance only comes into play if the movement of the enemy unit starts in the control zone and leads to another field of the control zone.
• A unit with a control zone can use them as often as desired in one round.
• All units in a settlement (size 1 to 6) with a city wall automatically have a control zone. If the city grows to size 7 or higher, the city wall loses this effect.
• The control zone has no effect on units that have only one health point."

 

[SayHayKid]

1 - (D*16 / (D*16 + A)), where D is the moving unit's defense strength and A is the intercepting unit's attack or bombard strength, whichever is higher. The game will always select the strongest available unit to try to do damage.

Am I reading this right? That the formula uses the higher of the A or the B value of a unit? So, an Archer 2/1/1 1/0/1, will use 2 as the A value in the ZoC formula? Or are you saying that if their are two intercepting units in the stack one with 2/1/1 1/0/1 and another 1/1/1 3/0/1, the 2nd unit will execute the ZoC shot since it's bombard value of 3 is higher than the 1st units attack value of 2?

 

[Flintlock]

Am I reading this right? That the formula uses the higher of the A or the B value of a unit? So, an Archer 2/1/1 1/0/1, will use 2 as the A value in the ZoC formula? Or are you saying that if their are two intercepting units in the stack one with 2/1/1 1/0/1 and another 1/1/1 3/0/1, the 2nd unit will execute the ZoC shot since it's bombard value of 3 is higher than the 1st units attack value of 2?

It's both. The ZoC strength for each unit is either its attack or bombard strength, whichever is higher. The ZoC strength of a stack of units is the highest strength among all units in the stack. So in your example, the second unit gets to take the shot since it can do so with strength 3 versus strength 2 for the first unit.

 

[SayHayKid]

It's both. The ZoC strength for each unit is either its attack or bombard strength, whichever is higher. The ZoC strength of a stack of units is the highest strength among all units in the stack. So in your example, the second unit gets to take the shot since it can do so with strength 3 versus strength 2 for the first unit.

Thanks. Is that just for ZoC? Does defensive bombard use the same formula? Or does it use the bombard value?

 

[Flintlock]

Thanks. Is that just for ZoC? Does defensive bombard use the same formula? Or does it use the bombard value?

Yes, defensive bombard only uses bombard strength. It does not use the same formula, though, instead it works like a single round of regular combat. It's as if the unit doing DB were ordered to bombard the attacking unit except with a rate-of-fire of 1 and the attacker doesn't receive defensive bonuses.