ZWK PBEM Game
- Thread starter kobayashi
- Start date
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
Very nice. 
If you do consider making further changes in the game play, I suggest allowing at least engineers. Leave out the rails, but include engineers. I feel sort of defenceless at points without them. You can make them expensive if you want, to illustrate the industrial effort involved in building the bunkers.
I know I can position defensive units along with my weak defenders, but I still lose the whole stack if I lose. And with the dramatic offensive fp/hp system (which I like, btw, because it creates a lot of incentive to attack rather than defend), it really is a bit of a gamble in the dark, at points. I haven't noticed any real hard defensive units yet, besides the anti-aircraft gun. But maybe they're in there further down the tech tree. (I'm just researching all the panzers I can get).
A plus with engineers, you'd have the option to rebuild a city from the rubble. It'd be expensive, but you'd still have the option.
PLUS, please make naval units move faster. Subs isn't very good at this speed of movement, and you can't do proper air recon, and reach an area with the subs. You have to wait till next turn, where you have to do recon again. It has been sheer luck for me with the subs until further. Too bad, because the way it works with the free missiles etc, it is really brilliant and quite thrilling. But it simply takes too long to reach harbour to reload, to make it feel worthwhile. Maybe there are a few naval wonders which I haven't captured yet?
If you do consider making further changes in the game play, I suggest allowing at least engineers. Leave out the rails, but include engineers. I feel sort of defenceless at points without them. You can make them expensive if you want, to illustrate the industrial effort involved in building the bunkers.
I know I can position defensive units along with my weak defenders, but I still lose the whole stack if I lose. And with the dramatic offensive fp/hp system (which I like, btw, because it creates a lot of incentive to attack rather than defend
), it really is a bit of a gamble in the dark, at points. I haven't noticed any real hard defensive units yet, besides the anti-aircraft gun. But maybe they're in there further down the tech tree. (I'm just researching all the panzers I can get). A plus with engineers, you'd have the option to rebuild a city from the rubble. It'd be expensive, but you'd still have the option.
PLUS, please make naval units move faster. Subs isn't very good at this speed of movement, and you can't do proper air recon, and reach an area with the subs. You have to wait till next turn, where you have to do recon again. It has been sheer luck for me with the subs until further. Too bad, because the way it works with the free missiles etc, it is really brilliant and quite thrilling. But it simply takes too long to reach harbour to reload, to make it feel worthwhile. Maybe there are a few naval wonders which I haven't captured yet?
Alcibiaties of Athenae
Imperator
DailyBullsh1tin, I V Fullocrapski reporting:
Today, the always cuddly Comrade Stalin annouced that through defensive moves, Talinin is now part of the great prolatarit of the Soviets!
The cowardly aggressors immediatly signed a peace protocall, after being "chastized" by our forces.
Long lives the heroes of Oktober!
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Morten, I'm not going to attack Lwow untill it's size 3, otherwise it will likely be lost and the road net destroyed.
Have patience, it's unlikely the AI will deploy resources to such a small city, your hardly threatened by it.
Kob, Star Trek for WWII?
I don't think so....:crazyeyes
Today, the always cuddly Comrade Stalin annouced that through defensive moves, Talinin is now part of the great prolatarit of the Soviets!
The cowardly aggressors immediatly signed a peace protocall, after being "chastized" by our forces.
Long lives the heroes of Oktober!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morten, I'm not going to attack Lwow untill it's size 3, otherwise it will likely be lost and the road net destroyed.
Have patience, it's unlikely the AI will deploy resources to such a small city, your hardly threatened by it.
Kob, Star Trek for WWII?
I don't think so....:crazyeyes
That's why when you quit it says 'Yes, I have to go on a galaxy saving mission.' I only make space based scenarios you know.
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
Now suddenly I get the joke about those aliens.... 
j/k
j/k
About the ship movements
None of the wonders increasing ship movement have been built at the start. Add the nuclear power tech and you could increase your ship movement by 4 by the end of the game. (Plus each of the 2 successive U-boat generations can move one more than its predecessor). I can't have ships streaming across the atlantic in one turn at the end.
At the beginning, U-boats usually operated near Europe and only gradually begin to operate in the mid Atlantic and the American Coast much later.
About the engineers.
It is very difficult to let engineers build cities from the AI perspective. What would you call them and how could cities be built in a few years? Who would have the ability to rebuild cities in the midst of full-fledged war.
For arguement's sake, if we take the aquaduct away from the tech tree to stop new cities from growing beyond a small size (and call them bases) how would you stop cities from shrinking into bases. How would you explain being able to build subways and universities at your army bases. The idea of irrigation has been replaced with towns so how would you stop the engineers from building a string of towns from a river to the new cities?
About the defensive unit.
The main defensive unit is the 75mm AT gun. To defend your stacks, the idea is to use fighter cover instead of fortifications. Forts as concept was proven to be invalid by the focus on increasing mobility and flexibility in WWII.
None of the wonders increasing ship movement have been built at the start. Add the nuclear power tech and you could increase your ship movement by 4 by the end of the game. (Plus each of the 2 successive U-boat generations can move one more than its predecessor). I can't have ships streaming across the atlantic in one turn at the end.
At the beginning, U-boats usually operated near Europe and only gradually begin to operate in the mid Atlantic and the American Coast much later.
About the engineers.
It is very difficult to let engineers build cities from the AI perspective. What would you call them and how could cities be built in a few years? Who would have the ability to rebuild cities in the midst of full-fledged war.
For arguement's sake, if we take the aquaduct away from the tech tree to stop new cities from growing beyond a small size (and call them bases) how would you stop cities from shrinking into bases. How would you explain being able to build subways and universities at your army bases. The idea of irrigation has been replaced with towns so how would you stop the engineers from building a string of towns from a river to the new cities?
About the defensive unit.
The main defensive unit is the 75mm AT gun. To defend your stacks, the idea is to use fighter cover instead of fortifications. Forts as concept was proven to be invalid by the focus on increasing mobility and flexibility in WWII.
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
I can understand your priorities. There are many brilliant things in this scen that comes from these priorities. Just a few concerned questions :
Why can't you have uboats crossing the atlantic? They can barely cross the channel as it is! (at least initially). I don't think its reasonable to expect that a player can/will research all the uboat/naval techs, when he has to choose between those and the panzers. The uboats will be second any day. If he, on the other hand, had a powerful weapon at his disposal in the subs, equal in power to the panzers, there'd be a real dilemma. But subs have always been too weak in Civ2 to be worthwhile, IMO. Your torpedo concept beefs them up pretty much. But they DO need higher movement rates. Especially if the sub war in the atlantic should be anything else than pure gambling.
If the german uboat effort took place only in the later phases of the war, why do the germans start with 3 subs in the atlantic off the american coast?
I think naval warfare can easily be beefed up just a tad more, to make it more interesting, more worthwhile and more dangerous. It'd be more important for the germans to defend all their coastlines, as it was historically, because they didn't know from where the invasion would come. They even fortified all of the coastlines of jutland and norway, in the fear of a british naval invasion. And the allies would feel less safe from knowing that subs could strike at a distance.
The AI won't build many cities if they can't find good spots to place them. So if the map is covered with cities, very few cities will be founded by the AI. And rebuilding cities is not that unreasonable. Afterall, there are civilians living there, who needs shelter, food, jobs etc. You're probably right about the "mobile" nature of WWII, but why not leave it open to player priorities? Afterall it is a lesson learned in the wake of WWII. Bunkers and fortified points still played a part in the minds of strategists and generals. An invasion by sea was/is a very difficult operation, because of the fortified positions on the shore. It wasn't done by sending in the bombers.
Why can't you have uboats crossing the atlantic? They can barely cross the channel as it is! (at least initially). I don't think its reasonable to expect that a player can/will research all the uboat/naval techs, when he has to choose between those and the panzers. The uboats will be second any day. If he, on the other hand, had a powerful weapon at his disposal in the subs, equal in power to the panzers, there'd be a real dilemma. But subs have always been too weak in Civ2 to be worthwhile, IMO. Your torpedo concept beefs them up pretty much. But they DO need higher movement rates. Especially if the sub war in the atlantic should be anything else than pure gambling.
If the german uboat effort took place only in the later phases of the war, why do the germans start with 3 subs in the atlantic off the american coast?
I think naval warfare can easily be beefed up just a tad more, to make it more interesting, more worthwhile and more dangerous. It'd be more important for the germans to defend all their coastlines, as it was historically, because they didn't know from where the invasion would come. They even fortified all of the coastlines of jutland and norway, in the fear of a british naval invasion. And the allies would feel less safe from knowing that subs could strike at a distance.
The AI won't build many cities if they can't find good spots to place them. So if the map is covered with cities, very few cities will be founded by the AI. And rebuilding cities is not that unreasonable. Afterall, there are civilians living there, who needs shelter, food, jobs etc. You're probably right about the "mobile" nature of WWII, but why not leave it open to player priorities? Afterall it is a lesson learned in the wake of WWII. Bunkers and fortified points still played a part in the minds of strategists and generals. An invasion by sea was/is a very difficult operation, because of the fortified positions on the shore. It wasn't done by sending in the bombers.
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
After writing about the inadequacy of subs, it was quite satisfying to be able to send wholly two allied battleships to the bottom of the channel.
Upon hearing the news, our mighty führer Hess was very pleased, after being a bit grunchy upon the unexpected allied dash towards Paris. A new Field Marshall Straxhieraus has been appointed with the sole objective of kicking the dog in london back where it belongs. Namely, in LONDON!
:rocket:
Upon hearing the news, our mighty führer Hess was very pleased, after being a bit grunchy upon the unexpected allied dash towards Paris. A new Field Marshall Straxhieraus has been appointed with the sole objective of kicking the dog in london back where it belongs. Namely, in LONDON!
:rocket:
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
And the save...
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[edit : obsolete zip deleted]
The Royal Navy this week bades farewell to the battleships HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Rodney. In mitigation, the perpetrator of this dastardly deed, U-003 was hunted down.
Although losses are beginning to mount, the Royal Navy's pledge to maintain its patrols in the British Channel continues. It must continue to bear the vital role of protecting merchant cargo eastbound from North America and escourting troops continuously being ferried to France.
A new campaign, the triplbe B campaign is launched. The King urges all loyal subjects of the crown to Boycott Bratwurst and BlackForest cakes. Hail Britania! Long Live the King!
Current Scoreboard
Allied losses - 3 Capital Ships and 0 Merchant Cargo
Axis Losses - 2 Capital ships and 3 U-boats.
Although losses are beginning to mount, the Royal Navy's pledge to maintain its patrols in the British Channel continues. It must continue to bear the vital role of protecting merchant cargo eastbound from North America and escourting troops continuously being ferried to France.
A new campaign, the triplbe B campaign is launched. The King urges all loyal subjects of the crown to Boycott Bratwurst and BlackForest cakes. Hail Britania! Long Live the King!
Current Scoreboard
Allied losses - 3 Capital Ships and 0 Merchant Cargo
Axis Losses - 2 Capital ships and 3 U-boats.
Alcibiaties of Athenae
Imperator
Nothing really to report.
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
Major events :
* Strassbourg fallen
* Sarajevo fallen
* Peace treaty negotiated with the neutrals
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* Strassbourg fallen
* Sarajevo fallen
* Peace treaty negotiated with the neutrals
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The Allies spent the fortnight regrouping its forces after recent operations so nothing happened.
At Stalin's request, I will no longer be posting my save file on this thread. Instead, they will be couried to his secret HQ in the town of yahoo.
Progress-wise, the Axis continue to gobble up Europe as you can see on this map.
At Stalin's request, I will no longer be posting my save file on this thread. Instead, they will be couried to his secret HQ in the town of yahoo.
Progress-wise, the Axis continue to gobble up Europe as you can see on this map.
Attachments
Alcibiaties of Athenae
Imperator
Nothing much going on with Russia
P&P
P&P
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
Another one bites the dust...
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[edit : obsolete zip deleted]
By a confluence of fortunate circumstances, the British action of the mainland has been an outstanding success. Since the expected German counter attack did not materialise, apparently Fuhrer Hess preferred to prey on our wimpy French allies in the city of Lyon, the BEF has managed to fortify Paris forcing the Wehrmacht to deploy three times the forces to retake the city now. A repair depot is almost completed while reinforcements continue to pour in.
Alcibiaties of Athenae
Imperator
DailyBullsh1tin, I V Fullocrapski reporting:
Our glorius and funloving leader, Comrade Stalin, tells us that we have begun development of a Heavy Tank that will be the envy of the civilized world, as well as rendering all previous vehicles useless.
It will be named after the loveable party member Klementi Vorishilov, and will be in production soon.
Our glorius and funloving leader, Comrade Stalin, tells us that we have begun development of a Heavy Tank that will be the envy of the civilized world, as well as rendering all previous vehicles useless.
It will be named after the loveable party member Klementi Vorishilov, and will be in production soon.
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
* Dijon fallen to superior german forces
* Copenhagen surrenders to german wehrmacht
* Allied squadron defeated near rotterdam by a squadron of ME Bf-110c's
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* Copenhagen surrenders to german wehrmacht
* Allied squadron defeated near rotterdam by a squadron of ME Bf-110c's
[edit : obsolete zip deleted]
Morten,
you know you're so lucky to have those long ranged fighters. You can use them on bomber escourt or recon. My damned spitfires are more suited to local air defence(good for Battle of Britain and little else) and I don't want to risk my precious wellingtons on recon. Just wait till I get my P-38s.
Its only a matter of time before you initial advantage dwindles. By then Lancasters and Superforts will be so thick in the sky that the sun will be blotted out. Good Luck to you then!
yours truly,
Kobi
you know you're so lucky to have those long ranged fighters. You can use them on bomber escourt or recon. My damned spitfires are more suited to local air defence(good for Battle of Britain and little else) and I don't want to risk my precious wellingtons on recon. Just wait till I get my P-38s.
Its only a matter of time before you initial advantage dwindles. By then Lancasters and Superforts will be so thick in the sky that the sun will be blotted out. Good Luck to you then!
yours truly,
Kobi
