ZWK version 2.2 Beta Patch Test

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Tracid00
Kob, I finished the game two times today, playing from week 20. One time I concentrated on the soviets, leaving only Me 109 in the west. It took a little over 20 turns to take Moscow, and after 30 turns all of Russia was mine. The Italiens got crushed in North Africa, but the allies didn´t land in Italy.

The other time I concentratet on the west more, bombing and taking London and the southern half of the british isles, but as you said there were surprises to come, and the soviets crushed my now bomber-stricked wehrmacht. I barely held my german territory after 20 turns, while the minor axis had been overrun completely.

I honestly think that field marshall should be initiatet for the german aspect of the game. In the field of science I soon outran the soviets pretty quick, the allies somehow managed to keep up a little better.

Sincerly, TRACID

Thanks for your playtesting. It sort of validates one of the themes of ZWK. There is a dilema for the Axis in the sense that they are powerful enough to kill one of their two opponents before the AI build up enough muscle but the surviving AI will be a power to contend with. On the other hand splitting the forces into two fronts is not viable in the long term. In terms of keeping true to history, I want to stress that it was entirely possible for the Germans to have reached Moscow or London if they used the right tactics (i.e. without Hitler) as you have done.

On the research side, another theme is that the Allies research the fastest while the Soviets the slowest. The counter-balancing factor for the Allies is that they have the disadvantage of corruption and very little offensive ground capability at the start. The counter-balancing factor for the Soviets is that they have free support for units and double population growth. One other effect of this scheme is that the Germans will become weaker and weaker on a relative basis if they do not win early.

A third theme of the ZWK is that every game will play out differently. I refer to your bold gambit to rush Moscow. How this theme is implemented is that several research items have the same desirability for the AI so they will play differently each time. So in your first game, the Soviets probably did not research the advance to produce the trigger unit which when destoyed gives them T-34. This does not mean that the next time you try the same trick(assuming you start from scratch and not reload a saved game at turn 20), you might not be as sucessful.

(Yes, I actually work out a master plan on pen and paper and weave them into the fabric of the scenario.) Although this is not a democracy, I respect the views of the play-testers and will change the recommended difficulty level for Axis (and Soviets) to Field Marshall.

 

[kobayashi]

1. Give City Fortifications, AA Network and Repair Depot to Moscow.

p.s. Tracid, did the Soviets have city fortifications when you got there in your first game?

2. Give more infantry and tanks to the French dispersed outside the cities like plumbean suggested. I'll have to check how the AIs react first.

3. Change the turn interval to 3 weeks instead of 2 - this is only cosmetic and will have no impact on the game but may kkeep with the timeline better.

 

[Tracid00]

If I remember correctly, they didn´t.

 

[kobayashi]

Any further mid game updates?

How about your plumbean?

The other time I concentratet on the west more, bombing and taking London and the southern half of the british isles, but as you said there were surprises to come, and the soviets crushed my now bomber-stricked wehrmacht. I barely held my german territory after 20 turns, while the minor axis had been overrun completely.

And Tracid - did you mean you were defeated or that you stopped playing after the 20 turns? - and this was at general level still right? Also, might I ask if the Allies were regrouping or reduced to being a minor irritance?

 

[Tracid00]

The Allies were no more than a little pain, because at that time I had sunk all ships with bombers and had about 10 u-boats patrolling the US coast. I also directed my effort towards air and naval tech, and not on panzers.

It was on general level.
I stopped playing, but I have no doubt that the Reich would not have lived for long against the soviet panzers...

Sincerly, Tracid

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Well, I'm at week 270 as the allies, the tech tree is almost done, everybody is fighting, the Germans have built all there advanced types accept Jets, I traded with the soviets to produce their armor, and they are producing allied airpower.

A question, Kob, what nullifies Mustangs?
I would like to keep making them and lightnings, but the option is gone!
I can't build them anymore, and so lost my long range escorts.

North Africa fell easily, Russia took Turkey, Germany and France are stuck between Reims and Paris, the low countries are gone, as is Dunkirk, I grabed about half of Spain.

The AI doesn't use subs, the torpedoes just seem to "drift" to the british isles.

Even with the navel improvements, it takes forever to transport units to Europe from america.

Why are there no way to produce airfields?
Only B-29s survive attacks against cities with AA network and AA guns, or fighters.

At the higher levels, Armor isn't that effective, even against units out in the open.

,3 movement didn't effect the game much at all, BTW.

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae


A question, Kob, what nullifies Mustangs? I would like to keep making them and lightnings, but the option is gone! I can't build them anymore, and so lost my long range escorts.


If I'm not mistaken mustang makes lightning obsolete and meteor makes mustang obsolete. I guess once you begin using superforts there is no need for fighter escourts. I had to make the lightnings obsolete in mid game because as you noticed earlier, the AI was building huge numbers and attacking cities with them. As a result, less bombers were built. So the way its set up now, when mustang is discovered the Allied bombing campaign kicks into high gear.

I think the mustang obsolescence crept in while I was trying to coax the Allies into making more jets. Anyway that didn't have any effect so I shall make the P-51 last til the end.


The AI doesn't use subs, the torpedoes just seem to "drift" to the british isles.


Yes, I put the lowest priority on sub-techs for the AI so they will only research them when there is nothing else - based on the same observation. However the original subs are placed in locations where they stand a good chance of using their torpedoes in the first few weeks. Torpedoes are sometimes released like mines by the AI. However, I'm sure they can't move by themselves.


Even with the navel improvements, it takes forever to transport units to Europe from america.


With atomic bomb and ADSIC, transports should be able to move 5 tiles per turn. So a halifax to pembrose run shouldn't take that long.

What do you feel about dropping the escourt carier and changing it to a liberty ship (i.e. a faster merchant cargo).


Why are there no way to produce airfields?

No settler = no building. Did you find any place where you wanted an airfield - I thought I had spread them out pretty evenly. Where should I add some?


Only B-29s survive attacks against cities with AA network and AA guns, or fighters. At the higher levels, Armor isn't that effective, even against units out in the open.


AA network doesn't work in conjunction with AA guns or fighters. In any case, I will double the cost of building an AA network so it is less viable to build them in the smaller cities. Allied B-29 is meant to be the best.

Tanks have a noticeable advantage when attacking (but not if the defender is on a hill or river etc). The advantage narrows as the game progesses but is still present - in line with history. Alllied armour is meant to suck. So if a Pershing attacks a King Tiger, the stats still favour the King TIger (but King Tiger can only move 1).

n.b. all tanks over 40 tons can ignore city fortifications.

 

[kobayashi]

Well I am almost done. One last thing I am going to try is to swap the position of P-51 and B-17 to delay the Knight-Elephant conflict.

Another option is to forget about the escourt carrier and use it for the B-17, thus leaving the knight slot blank.

 

[Plumbean]

Kobayashi I am heading East and going to use my bomber for the east I have not had much time to play but sat I am free and I will let you know how I am doing

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

I like the liberty ship idea, the escort carrier is useless.
I would never build one, since the house rule about bombers and carries, carriers have only marginal value, and the Allies have plenty at start. Also, carriers should be faster then battleships, not vice versa. Making them the same as BBs would be a good compromise.

You sure about AA guns and AA networks?
It gives the doubled message, I noticed.

I meant some airfields in cities, for veteran air units, maybe ONE for each power, say NY for allies, Berlin for Germany, Rome and Paris for minors, Madrid and Belgrade for neutrals and independants, just so SOME veteran aircraft can be built

Strategic transfer shouldn't be an issue, with so many interceptors floating about, it would be suicide.

I noticed torpedoes "drifting" on land squares also, how this happens, I can't say.

Leaving the mustang is a good idea, but it's range should be the same or a little less then the Lightning. 7 there and back is a little short, this plane could reach Berlin from England!

I love the new graphics, really improve the scenario.

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
I like the liberty ship idea, the escort carrier is useless.
I would never build one, since the house rule about bombers and carries, carriers have only marginal value, and the Allies have plenty at start. Also, carriers should be faster then battleships, not vice versa. Making them the same as BBs would be a good compromise.

ok liberty ship then. (The escout carriers) were meant to transport fighters across the atlantic.


You sure about AA guns and AA networks?
It gives the doubled message, I noticed.


I thought AA network would only work for units without the fighter flag. So you should either have the 'scramble' message or the 'doubled' message but not both. I'll have another look.


I meant some airfields in cities, for veteran air units, maybe ONE for each power, say NY for allies, Berlin for Germany, Rome and Paris for minors, Madrid and Belgrade for neutrals and independants, just so SOME veteran aircraft can be built


I'm more thinking that you can only become veteran from fighting - especially in war time when you are running out of pilots all the time. Pilots are just given basic knowledge and then sent to die. If they survive, they become veterans. If there is more than one AIRPORT, then there is a chance than there will be airlifting. That would naturally be abused since transports then couldn't even carry jeeps (well other the the ME 323 Gigant).


I noticed torpedoes "drifting" on land squares also, how this happens, I can't say.


Oh you mean that. Each torpedo is also a sub - so that it can't attack land units. That would also mean that a torpedo can carry other torpedoes. How they get on land is by riding on each other's backs. Tends to happen in French Africa.


Leaving the mustang is a good idea, but it's range should be the same or a little less then the Lightning. 7 there and back is a little short, this plane could reach Berlin from England!


ok, I'll up the move to 8.

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae

You sure about AA guns and AA networks?
It gives the doubled message, I noticed.

Yes I just double checked this. The 'AA network doubles defense' message only pops up when there is no figther, AA battery or capital ship in the city.

 

[kobayashi]

Any further comments?

If not I'll be putting together the final version of the Patch zip for release.