Coronavirus. The n(in)th sequel.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Today we finally saw Argentina's ‘president’ formally charged for breaking his own lockdown rules.

A lot of US and Canadian politicians could easily join him, pushing rules while ignoring them personally. Quite common among the ruling class, it seems.

The Supreme Court has struck down the CDC nationwide eviction moratorium.

Again. And it was obviously going to happen. Government trying to bypass legislature is something of a cancer in US system in general, but in this case they weren't even trying. SCOTUS already ruled previously that CDC had no authority to do this, but didn't ban it because the eviction issue was about to expire (which was a bad move by SCOTUS).

What does the Biden administration do? Issue an already-confirmed 0 authority ban, again, through the CDC. WTF. Even if they wanted to be scummy, they could have used something other than CDC which was already proven failure.
 
Protecting your loved ones isn't an incentive?

Me getting tested isn't notably going to change the risk level for my loved ones. If I'm symptomatic, I'm not going to see them, regardless of testing.

I have been tested exactly once, and that was because I went to Italy for vacation. If you are able to work from home, you can easily get by without doing any tests.

I have an office job, but I wouldn't go to the office if it required testing.

Does not an office job mean a work from home job these days? It does for me and everyone I know who used to go into the office.

Anecdotally, most places here have returned their workers to their offices, or are doing so in the next few weeks.

There are still gaps—false negatives, bureaucratic errors, and cases-to-be that wouldn’t yet show up on tests.

The original, unpatched coronavirus, maybe their strategy was feasible in getting the R-level (? not a science guy) down to where it could be eliminated. This new version, I don’t know—might just be a matter of time.

Yeah, but China is still carpet bombing testing more than anywhere else.

e.g. Coronavirus: 18 million tests in three days as Guangzhou tries to stem spread in latest outbreak

Other places that have tried broadly testing the population have seen success e.g. The effectiveness of population-wide, rapid antigen test based screening in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infection prevalence in Slovakia

It's not a maintainable strategy if you have constant community spread though. e.g. We've settled into a steady-state of about 0.2% of the population getting voluntarily testing every day.
 
Last edited:
I have been tested exactly once, and that was because I went to Italy for vacation. If you are able to work from home, you can easily get by without doing any tests.

Yeah, true, a good part was for travelling, but I also got tested twice, because I had undiagnosed allergies, and people wanted to visit me.

Me getting tested isn't notable going to change the risk level for my loved ones. If I'm symptomatic, I'm not going to see them, regardless of testing.

Very good :thumbsup:.
 
Does anyone know about the situation in India? It seems like after a terrible wave of infections in May, things are down to much lower levels lately.

It probably already swept most of the country there. The real number of deaths in India was probably in the millions. Still some states are having a fairly high number for new cases. Others apparently almost suppressed the virus. Some use the drug that cannot be mentioned and swear by it, other say it doesn't work. I think it would take an indian to comment on the situation there, too diverse for me to grasp.

@Zelig Agreed, testing indeed works as a toll of epidemic suppression but is must be used as part of a coherent plan. Otherwise its social use is reduced to situation monitoring, no point in wanting to compel people to test if there's no strategy to act usefully on those tests. Monitoring can probably be done more expeditiously by monitoring wastewater for the virus and by looking at positivity rate in the tests that are done.

Slovakia has maintained a remarkably low level of virus presence there for months now.

@Lemon Merchant Letting one-trick-ponies be in change of epidemic response and taking cues from them has done a lot of harm in the reaction to this epidemic. There's a remarkable degree of refusal to change strategies and to look at the doing better and learn from them.
Those still impressed with mr. Fauci should look into his career history and take off the blinders. The man is vaccine-obsesses and was responsible already for delaying effective responses to the HIV epidemic back in the 90s by prioritizing channeling resources to a vaccination strategy. Which kept failing. Over 20 years of that obsession already. There things have an opportunity cost: the paths not taken, the resources that could have been directed to different research, and different actions.
 
Last edited:
Some use the drug that cannot be mentioned and swear by it, other say it doesn't work. I think it would take an indian to comment on the situation there, too diverse for me to grasp.

Justification of that drug was that it could suppress an overreaction to the viral infection if taken early, IIRC. I'm not sure if that was true or not, but based on the rationale you'd have to take it very early in infection for it to be useful at all.

Even if we assume it was actually useful in above case, it is also not clear if it would still be of benefit to a variant with a much higher viral load than earliest strains. Still, it would be nice if this type of thing weren't politicized, and we could actually find trustworthy data on it easily.
 
I forget, there are several drugs that cannot be mentioned, now! Some indian states are using ivermection, I don't see anywhere using the hcq one.

News about hospitals overflowing in Japan. Will they do a lockdown? I think that's been the inevitable consequence everywhere.
 
I forget, there are several drugs that cannot be mentioned, now! Some indian states are using ivermection, I don't see anywhere using the hcq one.

Link ?
This is India where people selling fake cures for Covid, fake Vaccines, untested cures as the situation is desperate.
I dont know why the antivaxxors trust some doctor in Egypt whom did the original study but when peer reviewed was taken down as fraud because they found numbers had been faked.
 
Another 4 pic story






Also bonus



and



It's ridiculous that people are supposed to be coddling these absolute morons. These people are horsehockyting pieces of their intestines out, and dying of COVID, while mountains of COVID vaccines go to waste just waiting for them. I'm sorry if people are eating Horse paste, they aren't going to be convinced by people trying for the millionth time to be nice and conciliatory to them.

Meanwhile, DeSantis is just saying his political strategy out loud.


>Create carnage in your own state
>Blame Biden.
 
I dont know why the antivaxxors trust some doctor in Egypt whom did the original study but when peer reviewed was taken down as fraud because they found numbers had been faked.

It really does seem that there's a sizable group who think research being denounced as fraud is somehow a seal of approval. The paper that sparked the whole Ivermectin thing - at least to the general public - wasn't even an intelligent attempt at scientific fraud!

The paper looked pretty fishy to begin with from the sheer size of the effect they were reporting. Naturally people wanted to check the raw data, which the authors had submitted - in a file which was password locked and ignored all requests for the password. Amazingly, this somehow didn't breach the journal's data sharing policy, and they very briefly managed to get this published despite no one having seen the raw data.

Fortunately someone discovered these geniuses had used the password "1234", and once people got a look at the raw data, the fraud was obvious. Numerous duplicate entries for supposedly different patients, and numbers that didn't add up. Entries for patients known to have died before the study started. And my personal favourite, patients who'd checked in or out on non-existent dates such as June 31st. The authors have been ignoring all requests for comments, and realistically, there's nothing they could say to explain this as anything but deliberate fraud at this point.

But I doubt any of this would make a difference to the anti-vaxxers even if they bothered to "do their own research" ;).
 
I bet a drug company could make a lot of money if they could figure out a way to rename their coronavirus vaccine to something else, ship it under a different brand, and get the loon-fringe of the population vaccinated with their... well, consent, in a way. They're clearly not opposed to medical science, they just want the satisfaction of having their contrarianism left intact; why else would they reach for the dogs' heartworm chewies rather than get the actual, scientifically proven vaccine?
 
I bet a drug company could make a lot of money if they could figure out a way to rename their coronavirus vaccine to something else, ship it under a different brand, and get the loon-fringe of the population vaccinated with their... well, consent, in a way. They're clearly not opposed to medical science, they just want the satisfaction of having their contrarianism left intact; why else would they reach for the dogs' heartworm chewies rather than get the actual, scientifically proven vaccine?
I think you are onto something:
  • Immuno power booster
  • All natural quantum blood level modulator
  • Patriot jab
  • China virus blocker
 
Last edited:
I bet a drug company could make a lot of money if they could figure out a way to rename their coronavirus vaccine to something else, ship it under a different brand, and get the loon-fringe of the population vaccinated with their... well, consent, in a way. They're clearly not opposed to medical science, they just want the satisfaction of having their contrarianism left intact; why else would they reach for the dogs' heartworm chewies rather than get the actual, scientifically proven vaccine?
Sell it to them instead of giving it to them for free.

Seriously, it works. Schwarzenegger had a business in the '80s (house renovation IIRC, or painting, or similar) before he was that big a film star and he had few customers because, having the best prices and quality, he thought in a very European way that people would go for his lower prices. He decided to rebrand it as the expensive stuff and he got more customers by charging more than his competitors did.
 
I bet a drug company could make a lot of money if they could figure out a way to rename their coronavirus vaccine to something else, ship it under a different brand, and get the loon-fringe of the population vaccinated with their... well, consent, in a way. They're clearly not opposed to medical science, they just want the satisfaction of having their contrarianism left intact; why else would they reach for the dogs' heartworm chewies rather than get the actual, scientifically proven vaccine?

The FDA and CDC say NOT to Inject the new "MAGA BLEACH" to try and cure Covid.
Absolutely do NOT goto your local doctor and ask for this untried drug
Faluci: "MAGA BLEACH" has NOT been approved by the US government.
 
Last edited:
Thirty People Signed Up to Get Covid

Medical studies often use thousands of volunteers. But sometimes good things come in small packages—like a handful of people willing to contract a deadly virus.

WSJ said:
Researchers in the U.K. have deliberately infected 30 volunteers with the virus that causes Covid-19, in the first human challenge study of the disease. Infecting the volunteers—who are healthy, unvaccinated and range in age from 18 to 30—will allow the scientists to observe in real time how the virus attacks the body and, from the moment of exposure, how the immune system responds.

The volunteers are under 24-hour study in a hospital residential facility, allowing the researchers to, among other things, measure their viral load twice daily in the nose and throat, perform multiple blood tests, collect urine or stool samples if needed and measure antibodies in the mucus from the respiratory tract and in the blood, according to Peter Openshaw, a professor of experimental medicine at Imperial College London and a co-investigator on the study.

“Because we can take so many different samples, we can get extraordinary insight into how the virus causes disease,” Dr. Openshaw said. “We are learning more about the twists and the tails this virus has and the ways it can cause problems in other organs. It’s all very important in learning how to prevent those complications.”

Human challenge studies are different from randomized clinical trials, the primary way researchers find out if vaccines and other therapies are safe and effective. In clinical trials, researchers take a large number of people, give half a vaccine and half a placebo, and send them on their way to be naturally exposed to the virus, said Kathleen Neuzil, director of the Center for Vaccine Development and Global Health at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. A clinical trial in the U.S. of Covid-19 vaccines used more than 30,000 volunteers.

In comparison, a human challenge study of a relatively small number of participants offers precise answers to specific questions, often related to immune response. Today, human challenges conducted under the supervision of institutional review boards are routinely used to research diseases such as influenza, malaria, cholera, salmonella, shigellosis and norovirus.

But similar studies have been used for centuries, at times raising ethical concerns.

The first smallpox vaccine was developed in 1796 when a physician exposed a healthy boy to cowpox, a similar but milder virus, and then to the deadly smallpox virus. The boy did not contract smallpox, and vaccination became the primary defense against the incurable disease, which was eradicated in the 20th century.

Other early human challenge studies, including some involving children and babies, were eventually judged immoral.

Before a Covid-19 vaccine or other therapies were available, the idea of intentionally infecting people with the deadly virus that causes the disease also generated debate, and a primary goal of the U.K. study is to determine the lowest possible dose of virus required to make volunteers sick so that scientists can study the disease while placing participants at minimal risk.

Volunteers were admitted to the Royal Free Hospital in London, where they were inoculated with the virus, said Robert



A goal of the study is to determine the lowest possible dose of virus required to make volunteers sick. Above, commuters at the King’s Cross train station in London last month. HENRY NICHOLLS/REUTERS



Read, a professor of infectious diseases at the University of Southampton who helped design the study.

Typically, they remain in the hospital for two weeks for testing, Dr. Openshaw said, but the criteria for release includes becoming negative on a PCR test, a molecular test that detects the genetic material of the virus, so there isn’t a set point at which someone is discharged. For participating, they are paid roughly $5,000.

The study, which began in March and is expected to conclude in September, has revealed new information, researchers said, but they wouldn’t disclose details. The Imperial College London research is supported with an investment of £33.6 million, equivalent to $46 million, from the U.K. government, an amount expected to support this and future research.

“The very first stage was to establish whether it was feasible to do it safely,” Dr. Openshaw said. “The next stage would be to go on and ask questions about those who previously have some immunity induced largely by vaccination but also from natural infection.”
 
Challenge trials would have saved so many lives if done properly. Big Pharma would never allow it, but a third-party challenge trial would have told us which vaccines were most efficacious. We could have rolled through off-patent meds to see what helped. SO MUCH MORE.
 
We were all set to buy plane tickets to visit my folks for Christmas and then thing horsehocky the fan yet again. There's no vaccine for infants yet, so we're basically back on lockdown. Haven't yet gone back to bi-weekly (as opposed to weekly) grocery runs but that's likely to start soon. Back to wearing masks indoors and in outdoor crowds again as well.
 
Link ?
This is India where people selling fake cures for Covid, fake Vaccines, untested cures as the situation is desperate.
I dont know why the antivaxxors trust some doctor in Egypt whom did the original study but when peer reviewed was taken down as fraud because they found numbers had been faked.

Search. Apparently it's "antivaxxor" to consider anything beyond vaccines to fight this virus. Informative, this position of yours. You'll be eating those words some day soon.

Betting everything on these vaccines failed.
That is obvious now. Undeniable. Treatments are necessary. Anti-virals are necessary. Any research on those is welcome, should be funded and supported. Instead several governments, high officials, regulatory bodies, etc have sabotages work on that. Denied funding, threatened researchers, threatened front-line medics, put out false press releases falsely alleging danger which undoubtedly undermines efforts to set up studies.

This is either crass stupidity. Or regulatory capture where regulators are shooting down anything that might hamper takeup of the miracle cure they agreed with some big pharma companies to push. Because, so their logic goes, people would be "discouraged" of accepting vaccines if there were other options.

But we need other options because these vaccines plainly do not work to end the pandemic. And that is not obvious just now, that was the most likely outcome from the start and has been obvious for two months. Its actually surprising that the vaccines work was well as they do for a few months. But not well enough still. And not for long enough.

Why have no other vaccines been approved in any western country following the initial 4 in early 2020? Regulatory capture. It's not just that funding got cur when market winners were chosen. Though that was the worst consequence of this capture. There's also the fact that there are other vaccines in use in other countries. Some were denigrated as "less effective", others as "unsafe". But the reality was that the 4 chosen winners in Europe and North America were also less effective than advertised and have extremely high number of bad side effects for a vaccine. There's only one explanation for all this incoherence: regulatory capture. Winners were chosen and now both reputations and a lot of money is at stake. Hence there is need for other strategies to fight the pandemic but anyone saying so is attacked, slandered, intimidated, censored.

here's no vaccine for infants yet, so we're basically back on lockdown.

It wouldn't matter if there was a vaccine for infants. The vaccines to not prevent breakthrough cases and transmission. The current wave in the US is not due to lack of vaccines. You'll see is spread to the most vaccinated regions, if it hasn't already. Herd immunity through vaccination is impossible, that was a lie told to the public.

But I doubt any of this would make a difference to the anti-vaxxers even if they bothered to "do their own research" ;).

And you're another one. 95% efficacy against the virus, said the vaccine peddlers. It was a lie, efficacy is much lower. Even against hospitalization the UK numbers show much lower efficacy. The US numbers are hopeless. That wasn't fraud? Where is your indignation about that? Oh right, nowhere.
You still believe in the miracle end to the pandemic is being achieved now, that vaccination has hit the numbers announced by the health authorities as corresponding to "herd immunity"? Don't dare accuse others of cognitive dissonance e before you take a good look in the mirror.

The "pro-vaxxers" successfully suppressed most research and discussion about other tools to fight the pandemic. Now we all suffer the consequences.

Vaccines were prioritized for use without proper studies being completed. But any attempts at trying other pharmacological interventions, re-purposing products that were in use and have a known safety profile in humans, should not be done because there are no RCT yet? That's a double standard.
Worse, some pharmaceutical products which were novel were quickly authorized and even peddled by authorities, before failing. But repurposed drugs are discouraged outside studies. Why?
Someone cynical might notice that the one common thread is that the authorized and peddled ones have patents on, the others do not?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom