Kyp's GMR Game (open sign ups)

[EEE_BOY]

Opportunities...but for which side? What if the Persians actually decide to help China?

Well, I quote 'befriending the distant enemy while attacking a nearby enemy'. It's generally true I guess.

 

[Islandia]

Good point, the Chinese Russia war is meant to be limited. Russians only seek to secure that fringe city, which the Chinese claim to have settled unknowingly but demand us to ignore its security threat to our capital. We have no interest in the other barren land of Chinese.

There will be no limited war on the Chinese front. If Russia crosses the Chinese borders this will only end with the fall of Moscow or Beijing. We do not respond well to threats.

 

[EEE_BOY]

There will be no limited war on the Chinese front. If Russia crosses the Chinese borders this will only end with the fall of Moscow or Beijing. We do not respond well to threats.

Propose an alternative to give up that fringe city? 15 gpt for 25 turns sounds reasonable for the price of a settler?

 

[Onan]

Wow, if you always hold to this approach, then everyone who is your neighbour will know they must take you out or be taken out, due to nuclear fear. Maybe just vanilla, but still...it seems extreme.

 

[EEE_BOY]

If China has a military base in Siberia who cares, but if it has the base setup all the way accross the continent, and right at Ukraine...... and we are supposed to do nothing about it?

 

[Onan]

Nothing wrong with doing something about it, but when what you do provokes your neighbour to prepare for all out war, consider that it might be counter productive for you?

It's just like DLC. A friendly or neutral neighbour turned due to unreasonable demands, with negative results for you.

 

[EEE_BOY]

DLC was a mistake, which I felt was played for too long between intervals (more than a week for a turn sometimes) in between and not having a continuous sense of game altogether. It was started with peaceful mind, then it changed somehow, then I was hoping the aggression will satisfy at some point, now it finally settled a little bit for me.

Similarly in this game here, counting on China not declaring war on Russia after setting that city will be day dreaming, so it might as well say it out loudly and amuse everyone while provoking someone to make the game play more dramatic in its own way. I think we have played enough games (mostly Speed) that we know empty threat and propaganda won't work on the Chinese Empress, but secretly planning an attack for a very long (real) time is too itchy for me. I will keep thinking about it, so saying it out and knowing it coming will be better for me personally.

 

[RStark]

I am back at home
Thank you for delaying the game for two weeks.

 

[Onan]

DLC was a mistake, which I felt was played for too long between intervals (more than a week for a turn sometimes) in between and not having a continuous sense of game altogether. It was started with peaceful mind, then it changed somehow, then I was hoping the aggression will satisfy at some point, now it finally settled a little bit for me.

Similarly in this game here, counting on China not declaring war on Russia after setting that city will be day dreaming, so it might as well say it out loudly and amuse everyone while provoking someone to make the game play more dramatic in its own way. I think we have played enough games (mostly Speed) that we know empty threat and propaganda won't work on the Chinese Empress, but secretly planning an attack for a very long (real) time is too itchy for me. I will keep thinking about it, so saying it out and knowing it coming will be better for me personally.

Itchy. Uncomfortable. I hear what you're saying, and you could be right about China's intentions, but consider that perhaps you're not? Perhaps China is being honest when saying he does not even know Moscow's location. Maybe he wants a resource at that city (I haven't even noticed where it is yet), or maybe he wants a city where he can easily defend the mountain passes. What I've noticed is that I usually make the biggest mistakes when I think I know exactly what's going on (especially in terms of other people and their motivations or intentions)...when usually the reality of the situation is more complex, and my assumptions about others are almost never exactly correct. (There's a very interesting literature about 'attribution error' which is fascinating and quite useful.)

One thing's for sure though, people will live up to your expectations, good or bad. And it comes down to play style, I'm not trying to be critical or say it's wrong. This is probably why you get called paranoid a lot, though. In the end, it is a war game so that is a rational stance to take...although I think your approach makes what you don't want to happen more likely! Apologies in advance for my getting all psychological and somewhat personal, it is all well meaning and hopefully will be received as such.

I am back at home
Thank you for delaying the game for two weeks.

Welcome back! Good trip?

 

[Islandia]

If China has a military base in Siberia who cares, but if it has the base setup all the way accross the continent, and right at Ukraine...... and we are supposed to do nothing about it?

So first it is Moscow, and now it is Ukraine? Which is it - you are not even making sense to yourself? Doesn't matter, the Chinese will fight rather than give in to unreasonable demands. It is funny that, the Chinese have not even seen a single Russian city and the hostilities have already begun. If you start every encounter by expecting war, then war is what you will get.

If you instead you had asked why the Chinese were settling there, you might have discovered that they needed to secure some coal, and that they were completely willing to negotiate a long term beneficial arrangement. But that is for a non paranoid ruler to reap those benefits. The Russians will be consigned to the history books even if the Chinese go down with them.

 

[EEE_BOY]

Ukraine is a real analogy of a state very close to Moscow. Maybe Stark knows how close it is.
Replace Ukraine with Cuba, and Moscow with Washington, your fellow Americans will know the gravity of the situation to the Russians now.

The Chinese Empress Wu didn't bother scouting and asking Catherine before settling in a generalised direction towards Russia.

 

[Islandia]

Ukraine is a real analogy of a state very close to Moscow. Maybe Stark knows how close it is.
Replace Ukraine with Cuba, and Moscow with Washington, your fellow Americans will know the gravity of the situation to the Russians now.

The Chinese Empress Wu didn't bother scouting and asking Catherine before settling in a generalised direction towards Russia.

The Chinese tire of your endless ramblings. They respected your borders by not crossing them to "scout" and settled in a spot that was uninhabited. If you wish to start claiming any empty areas as part of the Russian empire, then you will be making few friends in this world.

We wish to buy your city of St. Petersburg for 20 gold per turn for 25 turns so that our new city is no longer on your borders. If you agree, then we can peacefully resolve this. What say you Russian Empress?

 

[Islandia]

Just to show how irrational the Russian empress is, here is a screenshot of the city of Chengdu and surrounding lands.

 

[Onan]

Hey, that's a lot of fog!

 

[EEE_BOY]

The picture intentionally not showing the two yellow dots on the mini map, but if you look at the sheep and mine, they are in the yellow border.

And if it was for coal, why not fill the empty space just east of that Songhai city? The city doesn't have enough food, not even the pearl is in the 3rd ring. I don't see any value of this city except provoking Russians to make excuse for confrontation.

Coals can be traded and after building factories, coal has no value. Why not trade some with your dear Songhai friend?

 

[Islandia]

The picture intentionally not showing the two yellow dots on the mini map, but if you look at the sheep and mine, they are in the yellow border.

And if it was for coal, why not fill the empty space just east of that Songhai city? The city doesn't have enough food, not even the pearl is in the 3rd ring. I don't see any value of this city except provoking Russians to make excuse for confrontation.

Wow you are truly paranoid. So it's okay to build something on top of a Songhai city, in between two of their cities, but not okay to build a city that doesn't EVEN touch the borders of the Russian empire in the 3rd ring? The difference is that the Chinese are friends with the Songhai and have even allowed them to take city states near the borders of Beijing in the spirit of cordiality. We have no relations with the Russians and based on our first diplomatic envoys tales of the mad queen, we never shall.

Now you are accusing the Chinese of lying to not show yellow dots on a mini map when you can CLEARLY see that it's all in fog of war? Even the Chinese can not break the rules of Civilization 5 I am sorry to say

Here is the full minimap so unless you are accusing me of doctoring it in Photoshop, you can clearly see that you are wrong.

There is no discourse possible when one side is paranoid and delusional and makes propositions not grounded in reality. War will settle this. We just wanted to point out that this war was started by unreasonable Russian demands and nothing else.

 

[EEE_BOY]

Clearly I'm right, see the two dots of Russian border? And the city is not even coastal, why not build one city 1 tile north to make enough food and grow the city in the long turn? Or is it just a gabbage city to just assault the Russian core? Count how many tiles to our border: 5, make it almost 0 with roads and railroads.

 

[Islandia]

Clearly I'm right, see the two dots of Russian border? And the city is not even coastal, why not build one city 1 tile north to make enough food and grow the city in the long turn? Or is it just a gabbage city to just assault the Russian core? Count how many tiles to our border: 5, make it almost 0 with roads and railroads.

We are done discussing this with a lunatic. If you can not see with your own eyes that the minimap does not show any Russian cities, then there is not much more we can say. We have borders within 3 squares of both the Songhai and the Persians. If building 5 tiles from the Russian border is an act of war, then so be it. You will get all the war you deserve.

 

[Onan]

Memphis has fallen to the Evil Russians, but has been recaptured. It has been reduced in size nearly as low as Chengdu. Our troops are fighting valiantly against the invaders, but clearly on the last turn we neglected the road which could bring more artillery within range, so the city was taken. We also lost our only artillery piece and our general in that city, due to this error. We'd considered building a citadel, but any unit stationed there would just get shelled out of existence by the five-plus Russian artillery in range.

The vital sugar trade from Egypt to Persia and China has been disrupted. Chinese and Persian tourists are fleeing the burning seaside town of Elephantine, while the Aztec navy assaults our city in the gulf.

Pharaoh remains in Thebes for now, but he is considering a move to his summer capital...



Bugger the Old World!

The fight is not yet over, but we are swimming against the tide. Will reinforcments arrive in time? Or will Egypt rise again in the New World?

 

[Onan]

Clearly I'm right, see the two dots of Russian border? And the city is not even coastal, why not build one city 1 tile north to make enough food and grow the city in the long turn? Or is it just a gabbage city to just assault the Russian core? Count how many tiles to our border: 5, make it almost 0 with roads and railroads.

Clearly!