Lord of the Balors feedback

Given that the Throne of Hell is supposed to lead to Mulcarn's Hell, I think it could be good to add a cold region full of Blizzards. The upper left portion of the map usually seems quite empty, so that may be as good a place as any. I'm thinking it may be good to have the Ring of Carcer found here too.
 
Is it a 'feature' of this map that I cant use WB to finish on turn one just to read the other civ's endings?
 
Lame map.
The friendly AI dont do anything good. Nobody does any tech trading (heck they even refused to share the map, afterall if ALL of us are going to hell to kick some demon ass, at least lets cooperate. Keyleen is stupid, got her cities taken by barbs, friendly AI in general is stupid, i havent seen 1 Stack of Doom from them but i see dozens of stacks from the demons. No fresh water so max city size i could get was about 12 (as basium), i had to go with the God king civic to at least pop Crusaders each 2 turns. All over the map are "scary necromancers towers" that make your units run in fear (unless you give them loyalty). Going to try to play as the malakim guy, get inside the corner, get a few cities beeline chalid and game over afterwards (like all the other scenarios so far, chalid = win)
 
Tech trading is disabled

Yeah, I gotta say I just don't get the setup of this scenario. No fresh water anywhere means you're forced to go CE. No tech trading means you're very limited in how you interact with your AI 'allies'. I realize this is intended to be a combat intensive scenario but just don't see the logic of restricting strategy to this point. This is the only scenario I haven't been able to bring myself to finish, it just feels like too much of a chore.
 
I think the no tech trading is there because if it were, all the lords would have traded with each other and become terrifying horrible
 
I really think that no tech trading should be changed to no tech brokering.


Is it possible to add more playable civs that are unlocked by decisions in/outcomes of other scenarios? I'd like to have a bit more variety.


I still think that a little fresh water should be added, apart from that little lake deep in Infernal territory.


I still think that it would be appropriate to make an are of the map to be a cold region full of blizzards leading to Mulcarn's hell, and that having the Ring of Carcer found there so you can have Brigit join you against Hyborem would be very cool.
 
The lack of fresh water is the definitely the worst part of this scenario.

Edit: Ugh. Two games in a row as Keelyn, Varn and Capria settle their capitals right on top of each other and never expand past them, Basium converts to OO and spams units into the infernals making them a lot nastier than they should be and everyone proceeds to get stomped which cranks up the AC and the horseman come and take me out. This would be easier without the "help".
 
Bannor;

Valin Phanuel = WTFPWN (1500 XP, yet I still haven't actually finished the scenario)

3 demons are dead...

After that I figured the fight would be reasonably fair..... I was expanding into the west for the resources.. Valin busy slaughtering more demons.

..When all of a sudden, Mercurial cities start falling, FAST, with Balseraph cities soon following.

Valin rushes back (5 moves+ commando does that..) just in time to liberate a city for the Mercurians.. (in case troops of mine die, I like the idea that they'll come back as angels at least)
Keelyn is currently being propped up with phalanxes, paladins, longbows though I'm tempted to just let them all be wiped out.

What I AM wondering about, though this is more of a general question than specific to this scenario; why SHOULD I sanctify hell terrain (sure, there's some combat bonuses for infernals, but considering the area isn't attacked anyway..)
It feels "correct" thematically, but it would appear that it's not really useful as such.

Also, sanctify is supposed to "clear fallout in the tile".. but it seems you can't actually move INTO the fallout tiles (they're impassable) :confused:
 
Does sanctify even work in this scenario? Anyway, demons would lose a 10% str bonus if they were on normal terrain instead of hell terrain.
Btw, crusade is insane on this scenario once you've taken a few infernal cities. They really like building cottages.
 
When first released Sanctify would not work, but after that it was changed to directly change hell terrains to their non-hell equivalents when the plot counter is off.
 
I really think that no tech trading should be changed to no tech brokering.


Is it possible to add more playable civs that are unlocked by decisions in/outcomes of other scenarios? I'd like to have a bit more variety.

Very much agreed on both these points, while it is fun to play as Basium and get a better feel for him the other teams offered didn't seem too interesting. Although I will probably try out Keelyn at some later date it might be fun to play as Falamar or someone else here as well. ;)
 
I got a recurring CTD that ended this scenario early for me. Like everyone else I was disappointed by the lack of fresh water, impotent "allies" who can't fight and won't trade, and found that my religious hero (Valin for me) dominated my crusade against the Infernals.

I allowed the Infernals to kill off Keelyn and then took her cities back. I didn't get my forces all the way to the OO holy city fast enough and it was taken back, so that is currently the frontlines of the war until one of my offensive stacks can get back from hell (6 turns) to retake it again.

Overall, I like the design of this scenario. The choke points where the deamons funnel down to the coast is a nice touch. I really think that a few small (1 or 2 squares) freshwater lakes should be added to the coastal area to allow the good guys to build some farms.

Now if only I can get autosave to run so that I can finish it...
 
Haven't finished this scenario yet (and I only get to play on the weekends) but I'm playing Basium for the first time and I have a dominant position, with only Judecca in any reasonable shape (maybe 12 cities) and Hyborem whittled down to a measly three.

This post is going to be a mixture of general Mercurian ideas alongside the scenario itself.

First off, things I don't like about the scenario. It's long, grindy, the lack of rivers anywhere and freshwater until you get into the deeper recesses of Hell are all quite irritating. Yeah, the AI is a bit dim, but isn't it always? Personally, I got saved by Kaelyn early on when her forces deflected the brunt of an early Infernal rush, and Varn was able to knock out one of the Demon lords by himself, so I cannot with any sort of good face call them useless.

After Kaeyln converted to the Order, it highlighted a real problem with the scenario though. 7 infernal players, by themselves, have no evil living units and therefore generate 0 manes. I on the other hand was being fed (sporadically anyway) by my three allies, as well as the never ending horde of champions I turned out of Bourne the gleaming to march to their deaths. I think either there should be a few vassal evil civs, like clan and doviello mixed in, or perhaps more thematically, a steady influx of Manes by event. Also, since about 85% of what you face are demons, Demon Slayer becomes more or less an automatic, and basically gives you a 40% bonus to all units. Diversity is important, and the AI is limited in this one.

The Mercurians are awesome, especially for a map like this. Angels of death can wander along, crippling the infernal cities with their Vile touch and knocking the population down to one, which will never recover. Holy Damage is awesome against Demons and even more so when they try using diseased corpses. Ophanim can simply fly over the mountain chains that seperate regions. My newest gimmick was when I realized that Angels of death do not replace shadows, but are in addition to them. Given that my areas completely cover the front lines now, my allies tend to sit there with huge armies in their capitals and do nothing. A little Mask, and a little prying, and suddenly the now good Balseraph and Bannor (The Malakim are actually contributing, albiet mostly ineffectively) are once again contributing Angels to the cause.

Basium has gotten to obscene levels, at 1100 exp and counting. I've run out of meaningful promotions to give him, and every so often if he gets hurt I'll give him something like protection from electricity to heal him up a little. Sphener is also starting to become a demigod, although he has but a puny 300 or so exp. (Bannor got Valin first. :mad:)

One thing I absolutely love about the scenario are the passes. Hell seems to be segmented, and I get a little defender's thrill out of noticing there is only one square they can get to me at, and building a fort and stocking 15 units there.
 
Or, if you want to make the AC a bigger deal, you could add a Sheaim civ instead, or possibly both.

For some reason I feel like Averax belongs here. I get the impression that the Cambion is likely the son of either Duke Sallos or a Succubus in his service, and so could make a good Vassal of Sallos. (It could also be interesting if the event that gives peace with Sallos could also lead to his birth and the creation of a new enemy under his control. Of course, it is probably not chronologically correct for him to be born in this scenario if he is present in The Black Tower.)


I'd still really like one area of the map to be cold a blizzard filled region (as it leads directly to Mulcarn's hell), containing the Ring of Carcer. Brigit really needs to be in some scenario, imho.
 
I'd still really like one area of the map to be cold a blizzard filled (as it leads directly to Mulcarn's hell), and to contain the Ring of Carcer. Brigit really needs to be in some scenario, imho.

I definitely agree with this. Brigit is waaaaay to cool to be wasted. You could even have some cool flavor text on how she's released depending on what the civ is!
Please Kael? :please:
 
I definitely agree with this. Brigit is waaaaay to cool to be wasted. You could even have some cool flavor text on how she's released depending on what the civ is!
Please Kael? :please:

I have to agree with both of these refined gentlemen as Brigit is really cool, but I feel like we don't get a real good look at what she's about and what she thinks. + She's awesome. :D
 
Bright would add a nice element to this scenario.

Having two or three (or even four) evil civs (Clan, Sheiam, etc.) that start close to the "good" (including Keelyn for some reason) playes on the coast would be a nice addition too. They could be at the gates to hell so to speak, and their units could provide manes for the Infernals as they are slowly eliminated in the early game.

Speaking of manes, with 7 Infernal players in the game, which one gets the manes? Does Hyborem get all the manes, or are they split up (or even duplicated) for each of the Infernal players in the game?
 
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