Ad Hoc
Prince
can we not just refuse to let the rebelling city join us, or do we lose all our accumulated culture 
RR6 - I am Legend
- Thread starter r_rolo1
- Start date
can we not just refuse to let the rebelling city join us, or do we lose all our accumulated culture
In a flip situation, the choices are "take city" or "raze"
^ It would raze if you refuse. Quite logical:
- "We love you and our wonderful city wants to join your illustrous empire"
- "No thanks"
- "Oh well, in that case we'll burn our city down"
Maybe we should become hindu like Ram and declare together on Boudi, otherwise I think our mission might be impossible...
edit: xpost...
- "We love you and our wonderful city wants to join your illustrous empire"
- "No thanks"
- "Oh well, in that case we'll burn our city down"
Maybe we should become hindu like Ram and declare together on Boudi, otherwise I think our mission might be impossible...
edit: xpost...
r_rolo1
King of myself
Ok, true enough, but sharing a war with rammy now means warring the big celtic elephant ( well, , there is biz,but biz will not be free for much longer if things continue this way ) .... no thanks
r_rolo1
King of myself
That is devious 
... I like it But I'm not so sure it would be easy to make work( the part of losing and regaining the vassal is shaky at best ...) not mentioning the HUGE WW issues we would have due to warring Sury again .... probably not worth the tag price.
I still have to analize the situation in terms of the AP, especially in the question of making rammy a member of it or not. if rammy becomes a member , "maybe" the AP will call a OB vote ( well, that is problematic given how firaxis coded the choice of resolutions from a AI that has the AP seat
... it exactly as likely that the AI calls the OB vote or a DP with all and that would not be good )
... I like it But I'm not so sure it would be easy to make work( the part of losing and regaining the vassal is shaky at best ...) not mentioning the HUGE WW issues we would have due to warring Sury again .... probably not worth the tag price.I still have to analize the situation in terms of the AP, especially in the question of making rammy a member of it or not. if rammy becomes a member , "maybe" the AP will call a OB vote ( well, that is problematic given how firaxis coded the choice of resolutions from a AI that has the AP seat
... it exactly as likely that the AI calls the OB vote or a DP with all and that would not be good )
r_rolo1
King of myself
Ok, it would work, but I feel it would give us more trouble than it is worth of. I fear ,for example , that boudi would jump on the boat to get sury as vassal as soon as possible and that is too much of a risk to be considered lightly. I'm also somewhat wary of getting out of Rep to Police state ( we have jails in almost all cities due to the variant so 0 WW would not be so hard to achieve , I reckon ).
There is a third option for this, that is basically make the spread of the culture in a little number of turns in the other two cities, to minimize the number of revolt checks, but that would need a boatload of EP ( not that hard to get, given that we are doing 1300 EP/turn with the espionage slider on the zero and that will only get better ) and a even bigger boatload of spies ( this would need some more serious calcs, but probably 100 spies on place in the two cities combined would be enough to take the two cities to legendary in 1 turn, given their current culture ). Anyway, i guess I overstated the risk a little, the cities have a reasonable pop and the chances of revolt decrease with the maximum size the city ever had , so it is possible that this will not be a issue.
There is a third option for this, that is basically make the spread of the culture in a little number of turns in the other two cities, to minimize the number of revolt checks, but that would need a boatload of EP ( not that hard to get, given that we are doing 1300 EP/turn with the espionage slider on the zero and that will only get better ) and a even bigger boatload of spies ( this would need some more serious calcs, but probably 100 spies on place in the two cities combined would be enough to take the two cities to legendary in 1 turn, given their current culture ). Anyway, i guess I overstated the risk a little, the cities have a reasonable pop and the chances of revolt decrease with the maximum size the city ever had , so it is possible that this will not be a issue.
Ad Hoc
Prince
A couple of questions on culture mechanics
do cities automatically flip on the first revolt or do they have to revolt once and then can only flip on the next revolt.
can you spread culture to cities in revolt.
do cities automatically flip on the first revolt or do they have to revolt once and then can only flip on the next revolt.
can you spread culture to cities in revolt.
r_rolo1
King of myself
There is always a warning revolt AFAIK ...
About spreading culture in cities in revolt... have no idea, but I don't see any reason not to
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Where is it written that we can't accept city #1 from a revolt while working on cities #2 and #3. If city #1 is legendary, can't we keep it?
In some ways, it feels like the above discussion is reading like we have to get all three legendary cities at once.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I'm getting sleepy , so my notes will do as report
We have the pretty sum of 11685
in this turnset. We have 40 spies , most of them in Memphis. Rammy is rebuilding the Sec Bureau in memphis , so you should keep a eye ( especially given that he is running US and is stockpiling cash ).
Our army is pretty much in the same way it was, given that i putted my focus in fattening the stock of spies. The next player can make more infra and army if he feels to.
Boudi is not plotting any war ATM and is still unable to make war due the AP. BTW the missionary on caravel is still there.
Broadway was built in Berlin ,so it is much more closer of becoming legendary than it was. Keep a eye.
next GP will come from Aachen with 50% chances of being a spy.
I don't know what to tech after flight ( in 5 turns ) ... any idea? Fission + rocketry , to nuke if needed? Radio? Something else? Should we start pumping more EP via slider btw ? We are roughly spending as much EP as we are producing ATM...
Just for reference , and because a report needs pics to be apealing, the last mission of my set, just to give a idea of how things are running in terms of modifiers and odds:
This gives a nice 1,24 per 
spent and in memphis it will only get better. But I think we need to hurry a little to make this before some AI threathens our win...
Ad Hoc, you're up. Try not to lose much of spies
Each paragraph is a turn ... I played 12 IIRC. Numbers without any reference are culture spread in mission.
We have the pretty sum of 11685
in this turnset. We have 40 spies , most of them in Memphis. Rammy is rebuilding the Sec Bureau in memphis , so you should keep a eye ( especially given that he is running US and is stockpiling cash ).Our army is pretty much in the same way it was, given that i putted my focus in fattening the stock of spies. The next player can make more infra and army if he feels to.
Boudi is not plotting any war ATM and is still unable to make war due the AP. BTW the missionary on caravel is still there.
Broadway was built in Berlin ,so it is much more closer of becoming legendary than it was. Keep a eye.
next GP will come from Aachen with 50% chances of being a spy.
I don't know what to tech after flight ( in 5 turns ) ... any idea? Fission + rocketry , to nuke if needed? Radio? Something else? Should we start pumping more EP via slider btw ? We are roughly spending as much EP as we are producing ATM...
Just for reference , and because a report needs pics to be apealing, the last mission of my set, just to give a idea of how things are running in terms of modifiers and odds:
Spoiler :
This gives a nice 1,24
per spent and in memphis it will only get better. But I think we need to hurry a little to make this before some AI threathens our win...Ad Hoc, you're up. Try not to lose much of spies
r_rolo1
King of myself
It is not written anywhere
... As long as the revolting city has the 50 k we can ( and should 
) acept it. The issue is to avoid revolts of cities that aren't legendary yet ... see the current situation in memphis, where we have far more culture than the Egyptians nowadays. It has a big garrison ( the Egyptian SoD is there ), so it should not revolt so fast, but a city with far less garrison would be popping revolts with the ratio of our culture vs theirs there...Given how things work ( sabotage of Sec Bureaus and city culture espionage modifier ), it is far more effective to focus on one city at the time, this means that , when we start working on the 2nd city , we will have a legendary cities waiting and same for the third... this gives much time for revolts before the time if we don't do anything to make revolts less likely in some way.
Maybe next player should try to make Memphis legendary on 1 single turn. If it's nearly 1000 culture per mission now, with 40 missions (actually quite some less due to increasing culture as missions succeed) the present spies would be enough if they'd all succeed.... Hence build a bunch more and try in a couple of turns, maybe?
Ad Hoc
Prince
Got it.
just some thoughts, i believe there is a certain garrison level that makes revolts impossible. if thats the case why don't we spread culture until Memphis is isolated, it nearly is now and then ignore it. the SOD cant move or go anywhere and we know it wont revolt.
we could then build up EP's and spies and blitz Pi Ram in one attempt over about five turns, we could do the same with Thebes.
just some thoughts, i believe there is a certain garrison level that makes revolts impossible. if thats the case why don't we spread culture until Memphis is isolated, it nearly is now and then ignore it. the SOD cant move or go anywhere and we know it wont revolt.
we could then build up EP's and spies and blitz Pi Ram in one attempt over about five turns, we could do the same with Thebes.
Btw, I'd move the spy slider up already and research to 0. I think the limiting factors for finishing this off asap are EP and number of spies. We'd crawl to flight anyway with all our rep-specs and as long as Boudi is not red fisted we need not fear anything.
Ram can't DoW us, right, with his 2.1 power rating (I seem to recall somebody said something about that...)? If he could we'd better get some security forces to Eridu.
Ram can't DoW us, right, with his 2.1 power rating (I seem to recall somebody said something about that...)? If he could we'd better get some security forces to Eridu.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Ok, some thoughts...
First, it is highly unlikely we will be able to make memphis legendary in 1 turn now. We have 35 spies in there ( this suposing that none i caught in the IBT ) and we should expect that roughly 1 in 5 fails. besides that, not all will have 50% discount and that means that the EP we have on rammy is probably not enough for that... On that point, I guess we should be prepared to lose 2 spies per turn just in the IBT , so we should build 3 per turn atleast
I agree that our variant now is being slowed down by both the lack of EP and of spies, so I think we should take the EP slider up fast. My only worry is that we might still need to war Boudi full scale and for that we definitely need nukes... nukes need rocketry, that no one trades ever ( maybe vassals do that in 3.19 ?
) and fission, that is normally highly expensive to buy...
I think we can still lose this game There are atleast 3 ways of that happening:
- Boudi goes space
- Biz or Boudi builds UN and boudi wins via diplo ( not that likely given our pop, but keep a eye )
- Biz goes culture fast enough.
The only remedy for this three is a military Op Anyway we will surely need the army for taking rammy down after our dirty spy work is done...
The person that said that Rammy can't plot a war vs us with that power dif was moi meme The stock LH that will consider warring a bigger foe in biggest degree is, not surprisingly , Monty, and even him will not consider warring someone with the double or more than it's power ( so even monty would stay quiet if it was in Rammy shoes ). The only way I can see Rammy warring us against our will is he being dragged unwillingly ( say, AP crusade again ).
To end, Boudi has been keeping a steady stream of spies making various kinds of misdeeds in our ex-khmer lands. They already sabotaged 2 spy builings in one city during my set ( both in Yaso...whatever , that city near the incense ) and made some farms go boom ( the ones that lived, that is ). Keep a eye on that as well.
First, it is highly unlikely we will be able to make memphis legendary in 1 turn now. We have 35 spies in there ( this suposing that none i caught in the IBT ) and we should expect that roughly 1 in 5 fails. besides that, not all will have 50% discount and that means that the EP we have on rammy is probably not enough for that... On that point, I guess we should be prepared to lose 2 spies per turn just in the IBT , so we should build 3 per turn atleast
I agree that our variant now is being slowed down by both the lack of EP and of spies, so I think we should take the EP slider up fast. My only worry is that we might still need to war Boudi full scale and for that we definitely need nukes... nukes need rocketry, that no one trades ever ( maybe vassals do that in 3.19 ?
) and fission, that is normally highly expensive to buy...I think we can still lose this game
There are atleast 3 ways of that happening:- Boudi goes space
- Biz or Boudi builds UN and boudi wins via diplo ( not that likely given our pop, but keep a eye )
- Biz goes culture fast enough.
The only remedy for this three is a military Op
Anyway we will surely need the army for taking rammy down after our dirty spy work is done...The person that said that Rammy can't plot a war vs us with that power dif was moi meme
The stock LH that will consider warring a bigger foe in biggest degree is, not surprisingly , Monty, and even him will not consider warring someone with the double or more than it's power ( so even monty would stay quiet if it was in Rammy shoes ). The only way I can see Rammy warring us against our will is he being dragged unwillingly ( say, AP crusade again ).To end, Boudi has been keeping a steady stream of spies making various kinds of misdeeds in our ex-khmer lands. They already sabotaged 2 spy builings in one city during my set ( both in Yaso...whatever , that city near the incense ) and made some farms go boom ( the ones that lived, that is ). Keep a eye on that as well.
Ad Hoc
Prince
Turn 320: Mata Hari born, will be sent to Angkor Wat to build another Scotland Yard.
Esp slider increased to 40% leaving 10% research on flight.
Culture spread mission results as follows: 904, 949 lost, 996 lost, 1046, 1098, lost, lost, 1153
Memphis is now isolated
Turn 321: The Security Bureau is rebuilt in Memphis and it takes two spies to destroy it
Culture spread mission results as follows: lost, 1213, 1274 , 1338
Turn 322: three spies are lost IBT
Culture spread mission results as follows: 1407, 1478 lost, 1552, 1629, 1711, 1796, 1886 lost, 1980.
Turn 323: Two spies lost IBT
Culture spread mission results as follows: lost, 2082, lost, 2186, 2295, 2410.
I mistakenly believe that we spread 5% of our own culture so pull our spies out of Memphis and move them to Pi Rammasses.
We actually need another two spy missions in Memphis. This can be done any time as Memphis can not be reinforced.
Turn 324: Peace treaty cancelled with Boudi, she isnt red handed yet
Turn 325: Four spies lost IBT in Pi-Ram
Turn 326: - flight in start on rocketry
Turn 327: Two spies lost IBT in Pi-Ram
Turn 328: A good event results in a free Great Artist, the GA starts a golden age allowing Esp to be increased to 50%
Turn 329 Pi Rams Sec Bur destroyed,
Culture spread mission results as follows: 418, 439 lost, 461, 484 lost, 508 lost
sidney reilly born, sent to Augsberg to build another Scotland Yard
Turn 330,
Culture spread mission results as follows: lost, 538 lost, 564 lost, 593, 622, lost, 653, lost, 686
I've also been building tanks during the turns which are going to the Celtic front.
it is going to need about another 27 successful spy missions to turn Pi Ram legendary, the rate of spy turnover is running at about five per turn and so we need to up our production of spies.
BISMARCK has built Apollo
but has not built any spaceship parts
Esp slider increased to 40% leaving 10% research on flight.
Culture spread mission results as follows: 904, 949 lost, 996 lost, 1046, 1098, lost, lost, 1153
Memphis is now isolated
Turn 321: The Security Bureau is rebuilt in Memphis and it takes two spies to destroy it
Culture spread mission results as follows: lost, 1213, 1274 , 1338
Turn 322: three spies are lost IBT
Culture spread mission results as follows: 1407, 1478 lost, 1552, 1629, 1711, 1796, 1886 lost, 1980.
Turn 323: Two spies lost IBT
Culture spread mission results as follows: lost, 2082, lost, 2186, 2295, 2410.
I mistakenly believe that we spread 5% of our own culture so pull our spies out of Memphis and move them to Pi Rammasses.
We actually need another two spy missions in Memphis. This can be done any time as Memphis can not be reinforced.
Turn 324: Peace treaty cancelled with Boudi, she isnt red handed yet
Turn 325: Four spies lost IBT in Pi-Ram
Turn 326: - flight in start on rocketry
Turn 327: Two spies lost IBT in Pi-Ram
Turn 328: A good event results in a free Great Artist, the GA starts a golden age allowing Esp to be increased to 50%
Turn 329 Pi Rams Sec Bur destroyed,
Culture spread mission results as follows: 418, 439 lost, 461, 484 lost, 508 lost
sidney reilly born, sent to Augsberg to build another Scotland Yard
Turn 330,
Culture spread mission results as follows: lost, 538 lost, 564 lost, 593, 622, lost, 653, lost, 686
I've also been building tanks during the turns which are going to the Celtic front.
it is going to need about another 27 successful spy missions to turn Pi Ram legendary, the rate of spy turnover is running at about five per turn and so we need to up our production of spies.
BISMARCK has built Apollo
but has not built any spaceship parts
Ad Hoc
Prince
and the save
r_rolo1
King of myself
Ad Hoc , can you explain me exactly why did you changed focus on the target city? Memphis is not legendary yet as far as I can see .... BTW a count of the culture spreaded would be nice.
Oh, and to the next player ( That is LK unless further notice ): the celts are in war mode again. Please take note of celtic movements ( if necessary put the military overlay on ) to avoid having to bribe her out of war again. Besides that the plan is still the same: build EP , build spies, and put this running as fast as possible
Oh, and to the next player ( That is LK unless further notice ): the celts are in war mode again. Please take note of celtic movements ( if necessary put the military overlay on ) to avoid having to bribe her out of war again. Besides that the plan is still the same: build EP , build spies, and put this running as fast as possible
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