Eucalyptus
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2006
- Messages
- 158
Are you sure you attached it? I'm not seeing it.
Now attached ... the attachment apparently became forgotten during a re-edit
Are you sure you attached it? I'm not seeing it.
If by "Great Golden Age" you mean that you chained a bunch of them back-to-back, then that's the core of your problem right there. Using your limited number of Golden Ages so early, and especially with no interval between them, squanders most of their dissent-nullifying effect. See below.I tried this out on a Noble, Huge Earth Scenario Map as Genghis Khan of the Mongols in their historical location. Genghis initially built a Classical empire of 20 cities. At this point, without any Dissent-reducing buildings, the Dissent from pretty much any choice of civics was negligible. Genghis then entered a Medieval Great Golden Age, and expanded by conquest and settlement to 43 cities.
It may be satisfying in the short term, but as you discovered, it comes with a hefty price tag further down the road. And the sudden jump in dissent just strikes me as the societal equivalent of waking up from a centuries-long bender with a hangover to scale.It is very satisfying to use a Golden Age for a rapid expansion, although it seems weird that Dissent goes from 0 to enormous at the end of a Golden Age. Everybody was completely content for a very long time and then everybody instantly became discontented. The no-Dissent-during-a-Golden-Age benefit has the side-effect that it is not really possible to see what Dissent will be until the Golden Age is over. Perhaps this benefit should be removed.
I do think the positive effects of excess Health and Happiness could stand to be a bit higher.(snip)
All its cities are very very happy (net 10-26 Happy faces) and very very Healthy (net 9-25 Healthy faces), but these factors contribute little to suppressing Dissent,
There *is* strategy involved in managing dissent (even aside from suppressing the growth of the *number* of your cities). This is what I was talking about above with regards to the way you misused your Golden Ages. *They* are your most powerful tool for preventing this situation. Wait until *after* dissent has accumulated, then start one when a city is about to hit Rebellious. By the time the Golden Age expires, even your most restive cities will probably be back down to zero dissent. If you've got another one ready to go, *save* it until you're on the brink of rebellion again. Repeat.(snip)
Without resorting to genocide, the game is now a long clickthrough until some technologies unlock buildings to reduce Dissent. But, even after we build these buildings, at each stage, the problem begins again, just notched up in scale a little. There is, at each technological level, a cap on empire size.
This isn't fun because there is no strategy involved. Happy and Health caps work well because there are usually other play-choices than letting a city grow, and because the player can make strategic choices to address the caps.
The Authoritarianism civic *does* do that. It's just that, as with Constabularies, you've managed to paint yourself into the corner of needing it before you have it.For instance, why can't Genghis address Dissent with larger garrisons? He's more than willing to pay the soldiers their worth! He would be willing to pay City Watch or Spy or Police or Secret Police units if they suppressed Dissent.
Having looked at your game and played with it for a bit, it looks to me like the Dissent mechanic is working pretty much exactly as intended. An empire of that size is *supposed* to be nigh unsustainable at that level of technology.I have attached a Save of the situation at 704CE, with 43 cities, 2 turns before the end of a Golden Age. I would appreciate it if anyone could play it through and suggest alternatives to me on how to continue.
(Chained Golden Ages) may be satisfying in the short term, but as you discovered, it comes with a hefty price tag further down the road. And the sudden jump in dissent just strikes me as the societal equivalent of waking up from a centuries-long bender with a hangover to scale.
This post inspired me to try One City Challenge mode again (for the first time in several years). I quickly discovered that Great Temples (and presumably Monasteries) are inaccessible in OCC under the current version. Unlike National Wonders, they still require multiple prerequisite buildings (Temples in this case), when you can never have more than one.OCC also enables National Wonders to be built with just one prerequisite building and raises the number of NWs allowed, it's a very different play mode.
This post inspired me to try One City Challenge mode again (for the first time in several years). I quickly discovered that Great Temples (and presumably Monasteries) are inaccessible in OCC under the current version. Unlike National Wonders, they still require multiple prerequisite buildings (Temples in this case), when you can never have more than one.
Possibly related, I encountered the Python error shown in the screenshot when I attempted to select a sleeping Great Prophet from the city screen right after researching Priesthood (which enables Great Temples).
Can anyone explain how and why each turn I get free research points into Hunting and Ceremonial Burial in this game?
Tech diffusion. If two thirds of civilizations in a game know a technology, the remaining third receive earn a little bit of progress towards it each turn. How much depends on a variety of factors: era, open borders, leader attitude, etc.
Okay, I started another Huge Earth game to test this out. The only civ with me in North America was the Iroquois, and I was getting 5 free research per turn into Hunting. Twenty turns later my scout encounters the Inca, and I start getting 3 free research per turn into Ceremonial Burial... for all of two turns, at which point I stopped getting any free points into either. What's going on here?
But something else will in cities in Gold age some note how many dissent is blocked? Or is too hard to make?
I've had a look through the code and realised it works differently to how I thought it did (it's a component written by Platyping, not me). In particular, it's based on rank, not on number of civs who know the tech. I may rewrite it.
OCC also enables National Wonders to be built with just one prerequisite building and raises the number of NWs allowed, it's a very different play mode.
If by "Great Golden Age" you mean that you chained a bunch of them back-to-back, then that's the core of your problem right there. Using your limited number of Golden Ages so early, and especially with no interval between them, squanders most of their dissent-nullifying effect.
...
There *is* strategy involved in managing dissent (even aside from suppressing the growth of the *number* of your cities). This is what I was talking about above with regards to the way you misused your Golden Ages. *They* are your most powerful tool for preventing this situation. Wait until *after* dissent has accumulated, then start one when a city is about to hit Rebellious. By the time the Golden Age expires, even your most restive cities will probably be back down to zero dissent. If you've got another one ready to go, *save* it until you're on the brink of rebellion again. Repeat.
... the sudden jump in dissent just strikes me as the societal equivalent of waking up from a centuries-long bender with a hangover to scale.
It appears to me that you have made a number of moderate to minor errors in this game, none of which would be insurmountable on its own, but which concatenate to create your present impossible situation.
The Authoritarianism civic *does* do that. It's just that, as with Constabularies, you've managed to paint yourself into the corner of needing it before you have it.
I appear to have encountered a Civil War related bug. In the attached game, on the next turn the Iroquois take their turn, then the Inca suffer a civil war and spawn the Maya in the slot opened by the recent demise of the Tibetans. And then the Iroquois get *another* turn before it comes back around to me.
Theocracy: "Can Train Missionaries without Monasteries"
Is this intended to be "Can train Missionaries of the State Religion without Monasteries"?
As it is now, a theocratic state can train Missionaries of all religions within its borders. Surely that wasn't the intention.
It's how the mechanic works in regular BTS. Theocracies don't have to be monistic or intolerant.
Surely theocracy involves the state being wedded to one religion and shunning all others. Why would a theocracy let evangelists of non-state religions evangelise?
Do you know of any historical examples of theocracies that weren't monistic or intolerant?
Yeah, the Maya are re-using slot 3, and every player in a slot higher than that are getting an extra turn. Working on a solution.