19th and 20th Century mod

[NotSoGood]

I have an awesome idea but I won't tell it to you yet. But instead I want you to tell me what different kind of things you would like the ideologies be able to change. Everyone can say anything. It depends on me how well i can use your suggestions.
Now is your chance to change the game play!
Oh no, mayby I said to much...

 

[Shiggs713]

well first, to know what ideologies would change I would first need to know what kind of ideologies you plan on using. Forgive me for being ignorant if its posted somewhere in here, i only read the first and last 2 pages. Give me a list of your proposed ideologies and I'll give you some better input. Also are you planning on changing the religious column for civics into ideologies as well? What would the civic options be?

 

[NotSoGood]

well first, to know what ideologies would change I would first need to know what kind of ideologies you plan on using. Forgive me for being ignorant if its posted somewhere in here, i only read the first and last 2 pages. Give me a list of your proposed ideologies and I'll give you some better input. Also are you planning on changing the religious column for civics into ideologies as well? What would the civic options be?

• anarchism
• communism
• democracy
• fascism
• dictatorship
• theocracy
• monarchy

That's all ideologies I'm using. No need to think any further, just answer the question

What different kind of things you would like the ideologies be able to change?

Suggest anything that comes to your mind, I'll do the rest.
I don't want to tell you yet what I'm trying to do, because it might not work and then you would be disappointed.

 

[NotSoGood]

What different kind of things you would like the ideologies be able to change?

Well, anyone?

 

[The Capo]

Hmm, alright I'll bite. Off the top of my head...

Anarchism - makes absolutely no sense in Civ, I'm surprised you have included it. I mean, it makes no sense at all. I can't even think of anything. Open borders with all nations, peace with all nations, no control over anything in your empire, in fact you don't have an empire anymore. You need to take this one off the list.

Communism - Hmm, see, your problem is that firaxis tried to incorporate facets of different governments in the civics. As an ideology though, I'd say all melee, gunpowder, archer units get city defense bonus. No specialists allowed, can use hammers for espionage points, +1 hammer per population in all cities. Double Production speed on Projects.

Democracy - are we talking modern or ancient here? Can use money to rush projects.
Can not have vassals. I can't really think of anything else really.

Fascism - No war weariness or disorder from fighting wars (you declared war on our motherland etc.) Unlimited specialists. Free corporations.

That's all I can really think of, I kinda stumbled on this so I guess I can think about it more and get back to you. It would really help if we knew what you were trying to do with this though. Are you replacing a civic category or adding a civic category? Or are these even civics?

 

[NotSoGood]

Anarchism - makes absolutely no sense in Civ, I'm surprised you have included it. I mean, it makes no sense at all. I can't even think of anything. Open borders with all nations, peace with all nations, no control over anything in your empire, in fact you don't have an empire anymore. You need to take this one off the list.

Well actually The J suggested it, and that was the best (and only) idea. I might remove it if I get the idea working, or if you have something better in your mind.

Democracy - are we talking modern or ancient here? Can use money to rush projects.
Can not have vassals. I can't really think of anything else really.

Modern, because this mod covers only the 19th and 20th centuries. (The name )

That's all I can really think of, I kinda stumbled on this so I guess I can think about it more and get back to you. It would really help if we knew what you were trying to do with this though. Are you replacing a civic category or adding a civic category? Or are these even civics?

I guess I can tell you. After all, I still don't like the current religion system as the base how ideologies work. So I thought of creating a new simple system for them. I know it needs quite a lot of coding. But if it won't work, I'll bury it six feet under and won't ever complain about the current. So they might be a mix of civics and religions. Don't know the details yet.

 

[Shiggs713]

I'll add to what The Capo said;

Anarchism - well of course The_J suggested it. Look at his avatar. Only things I can think of is 0 civic maintenance, no state religion, maybe 0 city maintenance, but severe production, research, and commerce penalties.

Communism -

As an ideology though, I'd say all melee, gunpowder, archer units get city defense bonus. No specialists allowed, can use hammers for espionage points, +1 hammer per population in all cities. Double Production speed on Projects.

sounds good, maybe make "state property" require communism, or maybe less penalty for drafting or something like that

Democracy -

Can use money to rush projects.
Can not have vassals.

+ I'd say universal suffrage and emancipation could require Democracy, at least universal suffrage for sure. Maybe some risk of great depression like in RFC. Bigger penalty for war weariness in offensive wars, and 0 penalty for devensive/call from ally.

Fascism -

No war weariness or disorder from fighting wars (you declared war on our motherland etc.) Unlimited specialists. Free corporations.

the fundamental belief of fascism being that human beings are motivated by glory and heroism rather than economic motives, in contrast to the worldview of capitalism and socialism

so I'd say no to free corps but I like the rest. Glory and heroism being the key here, so definitely less xp required for GG spawn, perhaps free xp in cities with state religion. that type of stuff.

Dictatorship - maybe higher city maintenance or at least for distance from palace. Or even civic maintenance. Increased military unit production and/or xp. Maybe unhappiness in largest cities, or perhaps even a risk for revolution (or higher) not sure if your using revDCM.

Theocracy - I'd say definitely a penalty to research to show the narrowmindedness. Aside from that the religious buildings should get better bonuses, the church functions should be much more powerful, and followers of the faith should get additional bonuses (like extra xp, or something else more creative)

Monarchy - maybe allow some type of "personal union" or royal marriage with other nations with a monarch, so that they can either join the same team temporarily or temporarily increase relations drastically. Risk for pretenders to the throne (revolutions) again not sure...

 

[The_J]

Mmhh...how will the ideologies be implemented? Because all what i read here can't be achieved through the old religions.


Anarchism: , well, i know, why i suggested it. Doesn't seem to make sense at the beginning. But look at the entry for anarchism in the spanish civil war and in the ucraine. It shows some impacts of the ideology .

 

[The Capo]

Shiggs, I have to disagree with your assertion that Fascism shouldn't have a corporate break. You say in general that in Fascism the state holds importance over making money, that is precisely why I think there should be no cost for corporations. The corporations work for the state, and are not paid for their work (except through favoritism), therefore you should not have to pay them.

Also, in Theocracy is there a way to make it so that religious buildings/wonders do not expire? Or are you already taking away the expiration on these buildings?

 

[Shiggs713]

Well I did not say that the state holds importance of capitalism (making money). Quite the contrary, I actually quoted wiki, saying that "human beings are motivated by glory and heroism, rather than economic motives in contrast to capitalism and socialism".

If you had a circle and put a triangle in it, the three points of complete opposition, on those three ends you would have capitalism, socialism, and fascism. They are all nearly the opposites of each other, with none of them sharing hardly any values.

the one good example of a fascist state was not a great example of this, because obviously they were already quite a big economic and industrial powerhouse, but we're talking fundamental values here, not how industrious hitler and germany were. Though I can understand your reasoning.

 

[The Capo]

Well I did not say that the state holds importance of capitalism (making money). Quite the contrary, I actually quoted wiki, saying that "human beings are motivated by glory and heroism, rather than economic motives in contrast to capitalism and socialism".

If you had a circle and put a triangle in it, the three points of complete opposition, on those three ends you would have capitalism, socialism, and fascism. They are all nearly the opposites of each other, with none of them sharing hardly any values.

the one good example of a fascist state was not a great example of this, because obviously they were already quite a big economic and industrial powerhouse, but we're talking fundamental values here, not how industrious hitler and germany were. Though I can understand your reasoning.

You shouldn't equate corporatism/corporations with capitalism. They are not necessarily part and parcel of one another. In fact in a lot of ways corporations are relatively UN-capitalistic.

 

[Shiggs713]

well maybe your right, but I still wouldn't give fascism free corps, maybe slightly cheaper.

I'm still not even sure how all this is going to be implemented, so who knows, I'm just throwing ideas out there.

 

[NotSoGood]

Mmhh...how will the ideologies be implemented? Because all what i read here can't be achieved through the old religions.

DLL is able to do almost anything.

I'm still not even sure how all this is going to be implemented, so who knows, I'm just throwing ideas out there.

All will be done with DLL. I'll try to add required functions to them.

@to all
I have gotten the idelogy.xml to load and the civilopedia page to work. Next I'll create the ideology engine.

 

[The Capo]

That sounds pretty awesome, I can't wait to see how well this gets integrated. By the way your boys are beating Belarus right now, 4 - 1.

EDIT: LOL, they literally just scored again after I posted that. It's 5 - 1.

 

[NotSoGood]

That sounds pretty awesome, I can't wait to see how well this gets integrated. By the way your boys are beating Belarus right now, 4 - 1.

EDIT: LOL, they literally just scored again after I posted that. It's 5 - 1.

I'm always open to new ideas. And it might take pretty long when I get it even work.
They won 5 - 1. "Hyvä Suomi!"

 

[NotSoGood]

Okay, now I've managed to create the basic engine for ideologies. It was way tougher than I ever imagined. But with EF's and others' great help, I managed to do it. Now I need to think how the existence of ideologies will be implemented. (horrible words )

 

[Pablod]

first scenario need some twiking
View attachment 20 century earth.rar

 

[NotSoGood]

first scenario need some twiking
View attachment 245497

Thank you very much. I'll add it.

 

[Pablod]

but need some changes it is just a start
sombody should fix it

 

[NotSoGood]

Recently I've had lots of problems with the code for ideologies, been really busy in RL and had few burn outs. I'm also starting to get fed up with the ideologies and I have few pages of things that I need to change so:

So I thought of creating a new simple system for them. I know it needs quite a lot of coding. But if it won't work, I'll bury it six feet under and won't ever complain about the current.

I guess it's time to surrender. I've been beaten by the code...
But I'll save the sources if I want to try again someday.