2.0 grams - The Whip and Saddle (C3C)

grahamiam said:
i was looking for that game to take a look but had trouble finding it. who hosted that game?
It's on page 3, Called Wonderless is wonderful, hosted by disruptive idiot.
 
barbslinger said:
It's on page 3, Called Wonderless is wonderful, hosted by disruptive idiot.
thanks, yep, looks like we're in even better shape here. if the inca only have 4 cities, 10-12 archers and a couple of spears should do the trick. just poached some iron in 1.0gram using a similar archer rush manuver, only we were up against immortals so it was much more defensive but not too hard.
 
Graham just gave me a litte :bump: in a PM - I hadn't realized this was coming back to me... I'll play it tonight, but I'll check the thread before I do in case anybody thinks of any advice or priorities between now and then...

"got it" (And I'll try to do better this time).
 
@scoutsout: i just notice that 3 archer builds will be done soon so if you see the opportunity to start in on the Inca, go for it. you don't have to be the setup man if we're ready ;)
 
Pre-flight check 1250 BC

Not much to tweak here...

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IBT - Inca Spear/Settler moves to hill SW of Sugar, a warrior/settler pair appears just inside Iroquois border...
Lincoln establishes an embassy in our capitol
The Inca are building ToA, so are the Maya
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Turn 1 (1225)
We're up Poly on Monty, but he has only 4g.
Workers road mined oasis near Oasis
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IBT -
Inca settler pairs move, The Inca are building the GL'house
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Turn 2 (1200)
Wake an Archer in Shanghai to dance with a settler pair, do the same with Ada. (Trying to slow these guys down so we can pop some workers...)
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IBT - Settler pairs dance, Sugar Archer>Temple (per Gozpel)
Horses Archer>Archer
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Turn 3 (1175)
Mine some desert, move some units to block Incan settler pairs
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IBT - Lincold demands 21g, Shanghai Archer>Archer | Oasis Rax>Archer
Aztecs are buildin ToA
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Turn 4 (1150)
Aztecs got Philosophy and Code of Laws, Maya and America have Philo, Inca has nadda
Hire a scientist in Sugar to slow growth and free up mined hill, Lit in 47 instead of never, treasury at breakeven, MM citizen to mined hill in Beijing, growth in 3, settler in 3 (pulled MP out of there to block settler...
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IBT - Settler pairs dance, Aztecs & Maya building Mausoleum
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Turn 5 (1125)
Road a mined desert near Oasis, do the settler pair waltz
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IBT - Sumeria completes Temple of Artemis
An Iroquois border expansion takes away a site I wanted to settle.
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Turn 6 (1100)
Dance with settler pairs
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IBT - Settler pairs consolidate on tile SW of Shanghai, Beijing Settler>Rax
Americans complete Mausoleum in Washington
Iroquois building Great Wall
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Turn 7 (1075)
Something changed - we're now at +8gpt
Do a little dancing
Whip the temple in Sugar, Lit back to never, now at +7gpt
Not seeing any sites to settle, I skip the settler...
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IBT - Hiawatha demands 20g (He has over 1000)
Shanghai and Horses train Archers, and start 2 more | Sugar Temple>Archer
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Turn 8 (1050)
Move a couple of workers, dance with Inca settler pairs, we are weak compared to everybody we know but America
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IBT - not much
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Turn 9 (1025)
Dance, and road,
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IBT - Sneakville Rax>Spear
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Turn 10 (1000)
Mine some desert and dance with the settler pairs.
 
20gram_1000.jpg
 
After Action Review:

I got a modest amount of research going for us in Sugar, and got the temple built. When the border expands it might open up a spot for the settler 2-SW of Sugar. We could also save the settler for raze and replace...

I also danced with those Inca settler pairs until I got them consolidated on one tile. The next better player will have the option of going after them or not. The archers are generally positioned so that they can be move against the Inca at a moment's notice. More units are on the way. As you can see, our entire empire is building stuff for war.

@Grahamiam: I know you said I didn't have to play set-up, but Corporal Punishment still says we're weak compared to everybody but America. Things didn't really start looking good for an attack until the last couple of turns, and (other than free workers from the settler pairs) I didn't really see an "opportunity".

So, here you go: > > The Save < <
 
scoutsout said:
@Grahamiam: I know you said I didn't have to play set-up, but Corporal Punishment still says we're weak compared to everybody but America. Things didn't really start looking good for an attack until the last couple of turns, and (other than free workers from the settler pairs) I didn't really see an "opportunity".
We will continue to be weak for the rest of the game if we don't jump while they still only have spears. I'm thinking the inca may have 3 spears or more in each town due to only having the 4 and nothing else to build. They could be explosive too. That is why in the beginning I was advocating an Iro war. They are busy expanding still and most likely have only 2 spears in each border town. We'll see during the next couple turns how it plays out. If we can get 2-3 incan towns we should be in better position and can spot some settlers in the new lands to get our town count up. they may all only be pop 6 for a while due to cramped space but pop 6 can knock out some shields for builds.
 
i got it.
looking at the save, there are a couple of inca towns up to size 4 and 5 so we need to strike now. that military advisor is not very reliable so i base my military decisions on what we know and our urgency. we have 13 archers and in 3T will have 4 more. sounds like its go time to me once i get a defender or 2 for the stacks.

edit: looking at the save a little later, looks like 1 town in on a hill :( that's gonna hurt. well, i'll play and post tomorrow night since I was trying to rush thru CoTM1 tonight.
 
Good luck Grahamiam, and may RNG be on our side. This is the lynchpin to our survival. Is there any cash to get the Iro's or Aztecs involved? Any settlers lying in wait?
 
barbslinger said:
Good luck Grahamiam, and may RNG be on our side. This is the lynchpin to our survival. Is there any cash to get the Iro's or Aztecs involved? Any settlers lying in wait?
For all intents and purposes, we have no cash. Perhaps if that Iroquois horse deal comes up, we might be able to get them in... we have one settler. I think Grahamiam could change the rax to a settler if he wanted to...

Good luck! (we need it...)
 
@scout -> that comment i made regarding the military advisor i think was right on but may be irrelivant at this point in the game. last night, when playing cotm1, i was attacking someone with ~30 cav and 2 cav armies while all they had were spears and archers. however, the ma told me i was average, which basically lowered my expectations for that thing to work right in C3C (i think PTW it did a very good job). however, we are in the aa and all our units are basically the same so, the inca probably have a lot more units than us. however, it still doesn't change the fact that we need to do something now.

looking at a combat calculator, we only have a 34% chance of winning with an archer vs a reg spear on a hill (Ollan...). it drops to 20% if the spear is a vet. therefore, i think the best bet is to take the other two cities up north and try to get that hill city in peace or try to take it after they are spent. hopefully the rng gods are with me but they seem to leave at the worst times :)
 
I meant nuts about stupid combat calculators. It's rubbish, they don't count RNG.
 
gozpel said:
I meant nuts about stupid combat calculators. It's rubbish, they don't count RNG.
you mean the RNG that allows our 1st two archers to die without scratching the 1st spear, promoting it to elite? :lol:
 
May the RNG be on your side. Good luck! And let's hope no one else sees decides to take advantage of our forces moving north...

As for the horses deal, that should already be up. The little influx of gold scoutsout experienced on turn 7 was probably that deal coming up. Check out the trade advisor, or see if we can use our horses again.
 
grahamiam said:
you mean the RNG that allows our 1st two archers to die without scratching the 1st spear, promoting it to elite? :lol:

You couldn't put it better :)

Everything or nothing, no pressure grahamiam :rolleyes:
 
save attached at the bottom of this post

Preflight check: filename was 11-gram something, this is 2.0gram :) Re trades: we are paying 25gpt for the next 10 turns so barbslinger will have to pull in the allies, I won’t be able to do so.
cities look good, not much to do. Move an archer N from Beijing and Sugar. Move warrior out of Xinjian to Sugar to help with unhappiness. Switch Horses and Oasis to spearmen.

IBT: Beijing barracks -> archer; Oasis spearman -> archer; Xinjian barracks -> spear; Hangchow barracks -> archer

We are known to the world as the Pathetic Chinese in regards to size :) Iroquois and the Hittites are behind us. Inca out of the top 10.

T1: 975BC Oasis spear to Beijing; 2 Beijing Archers N; other archers start gather N of Horses. Gonna go climb a mountain. Currack admires the American coastline. Worker moves south of Xinjian. Stop growth in Shanghai and slow down in Horses so I don’t have to worry about a lux tax. Shanghai can do 6spt after corruption.

IBT: Shanghai archer -> archer; Sugar archer -> archer; Sugar’s culture expands.

T2: 950BC MM Xinjian off irrigated plain onto mined hill to shave 3T off spear build.

IBT: Horses spear -> archer (MM to get in 4T vs 5T, slowing growth after an irrigated plain was finished)

T3: 925BC Move spearman in Beijing to cover dyes; stack N of horses is 11 archers and 1 spear; an archer MP’s in Beijing. An irrigated desert square near sugar would be nice as we could get that city up to 6spt as well. Happiness there is pretty non-existent for some reason (4 contents, 0 smiles)

IBT: America declares war on the Iroquois!

T4: 900BC Sniffing for a deal with America vs the Iroquois but nothing looks good (plus we’d trash our rep.) Spend 39g (basically our entire treasury) to build an embassy with the Iroquois. They have iron and horses and are 1T from completing the Great Wall. They also have 1350g (well, now we know were all our gold is at :lol: ); They have dogcrap units though with 3 spears, 1 warrior and 1 settler. No good deals there either as I can’t by Monarchy nor Construction from them in an alliance :( They will give me 126 gold for 8gpt :) guess Moonsingers trick ain’t worth it right now.

Extort 13g from the Inca :) Declare war on Inca :evil: Move SoD onto mountain. Fortify spear on the dyes. MM Oasis off irrigated wheat FP onto mined desert (shave 1T off archer build and slow down growth)

IBT: Maya ask that our rowboat get out of his waters, sure thing big ears; Inca move some troops around but not much is threatening (workers hide, spears move down for pillaging, 2 galleys appear from Ollantaytambooboo and sail south near Beijing.

Beijing archer -> archer; Iroquois complete Great Wall; Aztecs build an embassy in Beijing

T5: 875BC Beijing archer stands on hill to prevent Inca from landing there.
Attack on Tiwasomething: (all vet archers): archer kills vet spear (2/4); archer kills vet spear (3/4); archer dies to spear (3/4); archer dies to spear (2/3); archer dies to spear and promotes in (3/4); archer redlines but wins 3 straight and kills spear; archer redlines but dies to spear and promotes it (2/5); archer kills 2/3 spear; archer redlines but dies to that damn elite spear (1/5); archer kills warrior (2/4); archer redlines but kills that damn 1/5 spear capturing the town and 2 settlers, drawing 4 resistors. How’s that for friggin’ RNG? Imagine attacking that damn hill town.
Move spearman into town. There are 3 units (1 warrior, 1 spear, and 1 archer) due S of town; there is 1 horseman 2 NE from town which can strike via a roaded jungle. Send 3 of the newly captured workers to decoy the attackers, hoping to let the defenders get into town next turn.

MM between Oasis and Hangchow so we get the archer from Oasis in 1T (loose 3 food but that’s ok)

IBT: Spearman defends against archer attacking across the river and promotes; 1 Inca galleys turn around; lose 1 decoy worker; Shanghai archer -> archer; Sugar archer -> archer; Oasis archer -> archer; Palace gets a front door.

T6: 850BC Archers move N from Sugar and Oasis; MM between Horses and Shanghai to get Shanghai to 7spt; MM between Oasis and Hangchow to get Hang’s archer in 2T vs 3T; hire a taxman in Sugar due to 1 unhappy face. 1 decoy worker near Tiwanaku moves N to try to see where the horses are located. He doesn’t find the horses but does see another horseman.

IBT: Maya declare war on the Americans; Inca horseman kills an exposed archer (2/4); both decoy workers are captured; 3 resistors are quelled and the town riots; Horses archer -> archer

T7: 825BC Archer kills 2/4 horse; Move all archers out of Tiwanaku to the mountain due to flip risk (riot); rotate some units and MM some tiles; no real opportunities to attack atm

IBT: The exposed archer dies after killing 1 warrior; Tiwanaku flips (crap) costing us the elite spear; Xinjian spear -> spear; Hangchow archer -> archer

T8: 800BC Well, that flip stinks. All those archers are wounded so I move them south to get back to Horses. Vet archer kills a horseman protecting a worker; worker sent out as a decoy to see what sort of reinforcements are coming (just warriors and spears :) )vet archer kills spear protecting 2/5 warrior; Ada (reg warrior) kills the 2/5 warrior and promotes to vet (2/4).
Inca are willing to sign peace for 8g and 4gpt :lol: I thought we were the ones hurting in this war. They do not have horses so I’m gonna start building some hoping we can get an advantage here. I switch Shanghai, Oasis, Horses and Beijing from archers to horseman (total of 3 due in 3T, 4th due in 5T). Some starving is going on in Oasis and Beijing but they’ll survive. MM Sneakville to get spear in 1T.

IBT: Ada (2/4 warrior) is killed by a warrior; archer that killed the Inca (hopefully) last horseman defends against 1 warrior but dies to the 2nd.
Sneakville spear -> spear (don’t have to MM to prevent starving since an irrigated plain comes online)

T9: 775BC vet archer dies against vet spear going to pillage our horse tile (1/4); reg archer finishes the spear off and promotes; whats left of our SoD returns to horses; move spear from Sneakville over to Shanghai; archer from Shanghai kills spear protecting 1/3 warrior and promotes (3/5); wake spear in Shanghai and have him kill the 1/3 warrior

We can almost get construction from the Inca for Peace but not yet. We can get Philosophy but that’s not very helpful.

IBT: Spear near Shanghai dies to archer (1/3); Beijing horseman -> horseman; Sugar archer -> archer; Americans are building Hanging Gardens; Iroquois finish GLight; Inca move a lot of spears and warriors into our territory

T10: 750BC Archer SoD heals in Horses. MM between Oasis and Hangchow to speed archer build in Hangchow. Vet archer kills redlined archer; the spear protecting the dyes moves over to protect the archer (sick of this tit for tat); rotate archers in Beijing and Sugar up to Shanghai. Fortify Beijing horseman in Shanghai (don’t want to expose him)

Our gpt is up to +31gpt due to some deals expiring. Next player definitely should look at buying construction. We can get it from the Inca in a peace deal but I think they are fairly broken, despite how it looks. They are down to spears and warriors mostly. With all those spears out, hopefully the cities won’t be so full.

Definitely disappointing with that early flip which meant 5 archers lost for nothing. However, imho, press on. With the horse builds coming and the lousy units the inca are producing, we should be able to turn the tide very soon.

MM Beijing next turn to get the horse in 4T and to prevent starving.
 
Roster update:
scoutsout
grahamiam <- just played
Knappagh1 ??? <- UP
barbslinger <- on deck
spikeit
gozpel

@ barbslinger: give Knappagh1 24hrs for a got it. if it goes beyond that, pick it up. He hasn't been online @ CFC since that last post of this thread. I will be away tomorrow so don't wait for my post to go ahead :)
 
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