3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[Jarula]

Why not give the Danes a unique that grants food and production when pillaging (jk)

 

[pineappledan]

.... do we tell him, guys?

 

[Jarula]

Actually that would be a funny mechanic +5 C G P F per pillage scaling with era. Pretty fitting the Vikings.

 

[pineappledan]

Okay he really doesn't know.

The Viking UB already does this. It's 5/ in city when a unit pillages a tile, scaling with era. Here's the (CBP wiki)

 

[adan_eslavo]

New version of my mod part. Added Licorne for Russians and Scythed Chariot for Celts. SC is not so OP at first glance but check if it works.

Known issues:
Licorne has 4 range (sic!). Will be repaired for next version.

 

[pineappledan]

Gonna plant my flag on some more civ's if that's okay. @Blue Ghost , please update the OP with this blurb on Indonesia:

Spoiler :

UU - Prau
trireme replacement
14 CP
costs 70 (20 less than trireme)
6 moves (2 more than trireme, lost on promotion)
Sentry Promotion (+1 vision)
Slipstream Promotion - ignores zone of control
unlocked at fishing (1 tech earlier)

UI - Kampung
built on featureless ocean and coast by embarked workers, cannot be built next to each other
+1 food and +1 culture
+1 to adjacent fishing boats
+1 at compass
+1 at navigation
+1 food and +1 at dynamite
+2 at ecology
unlocked at sailing

Currently working on/laying claim to the following:

Shoshone:

Spoiler :

Yellow Brow (Ohamupe)
Tercio replacement
26 CS
anti-mounted I
No Retreat - Fights at full strength when damaged. (lost on promotion)
‘Big Horse Dance’ Promotion - Double fortification bonus (80% instead of 40%)
using the black mouth unit as a model for now

Buffalo Pound
well replacement
no maintenance (down from 1)
+1 production and +1 food (up from +1 only)
+1 production and +1 food for every 5 population
+1 from deer, sheep, cattle, horse & bison
can be built on fresh water
can be built if city has water mill

Do people prefer the name Yellow Brow or Ohamupe for the UU?

Polynesia:

Spoiler :

UU - Koa
Swordsman replacement
Does not require Iron
80 (down from 100)
Amphibious Promotion
Leiomano Promotion - After attacking, enemy unit takes an additional 10 "bleed" damage at the start of their turn (essentially disables heal on fortify)
available at Sailing instead of Iron Working

UB - Fale Tel'e
Council replacement
+1 Science and +1 Culture (up from 1 only)
+1 to Fishing boats
5 when a citizen is born, scaling with era
15 when a naval unit is produced in the city, scaling with era.

I'm not sure if my Leiomano idea is plausible. I might need some help with that.

Sweden:

Spoiler :

UU - Hakkapeliitta
Lancer replacement
38 CP (up from 35)
Great General II Promotion
Charge I Promotion (10 % attack in open terrain ; +25 % attack vs wounded unit)
unlocked at Gunpowder (1 tech earlier, now cannons lancer and tercio all on same tech. perfect for the Lion of the North)

Carolean moved back to rifling and is now a fusilier replacement (same as vanilla)
38 (up from 35)
retains Grenadier, General Stack, and March promotions

UB - Bastu
baths replacement
+4 culture (up from 2)
+1 and +1 from Temples, Amphitheaters and Gardens
15% and 15% during Golden Ages (up from 10%)
1 from tundra tiles
Requires fresh water (as opposed to river)

I know people wanted something more 'Swedish', but honestly if you read up on the history of saunas, they are all over Scandinavia, they all were developed simultaneously (we don't really know where the first one began), and the only reason Finland is known for saunas more than the others is because their sauna culture wasn't disrupted by the advent of Syphilis like it was in the rest of Europe. The Swedish Empire encompassed Finland anyways; Hakkapeliitta were Finnish too.

Let’s get to work!

 

[Jarula]

UB - Fale Tel'e
Council replacement
+1 Science and +1 Culture (up from 1 only)
+1 to Fishing boats
5 when a citizen is born, scaling with era
15 when a naval unit is produced in the city, scaling with era.

Would be better changing the 5 science and 15 science to production... Stronger more accurate and more gooder

 

[pineappledan]

I could up the birth bonus to 7 maybe? If I put it up to 15 that would be more than 3x as good as the base council.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Gonna plant my flag on some more civ's if that's okay. @Blue Ghost , please update the OP with this blurb on Indonesia:

Spoiler :

UU - Prau
trireme replacement
14 CP
costs 70 (20 less than trireme)
6 moves (2 more than trireme, lost on promotion)
Sentry Promotion (+1 vision)
Slipstream Promotion - ignores zone of control
unlocked at fishing (1 tech earlier)

UI - Kampung
built on featureless ocean and coast by embarked workers, cannot be built next to each other
+1 food and +1 culture
+1 to adjacent fishing boats
+1 at compass
+1 at navigation
+1 food and +1 at dynamite
+2 at ecology
unlocked at sailing

Added the descriptions for Indonesia, Iroquois and Poland to the second post. I'm going to try to get a Github repository up sometime this weekend, for easier sharing of our work.

Polynesia:

Spoiler :

UU - Koa
Swordsman replacement
Does not require Iron
80 (down from 100)
Amphibious Promotion
Leiomano Promotion - After attacking, enemy unit takes an additional 10 "bleed" damage at the start of their turn (essentially disables heal on fortify)
available at Sailing instead of Iron Working

UB - Fale Tel'e
Council replacement
+1 Science and +1 Culture (up from 1 only)
+1 to Fishing boats
5 when a citizen is born, scaling with era
15 when a naval unit is produced in the city, scaling with era.

I'm not sure if my Leiomano idea is plausible. I might need some help with that.

I would have expected a naval unit for such an ocean-focused civ as Polynesia. There are already enough swordsman replacements. But you already did the Prau for Indonesia, so you wouldn't want to rehash that. And the Koa design is pretty cool.

Leiomano should be doable, if somewhat Lua-intensive. One way to do it is to use a promotion as a status marker. Have the Koa give an enemy unit it hits a "wounded" promotion. Then at the start of every player's turn, check each of their units, and for each one that has the promotion, remove the promotion and deal them 10 damage. (Though I might change it to end of their turn, so their unit can do something before dying.)
I did something similar in my Madoka Magica conversion series with Kyouko Sakura's Chain Lancer. You could adapt my code from there.

If you're feeling adventurous, you could have the Fala Tel'e grant naval units a promotion that gives science for exploring? Don't know if that's feasible, but you could try reverse-engineering the Bandeirantes's ability.

Sweden:

Spoiler :

UU - Hakkapeliitta
Lancer replacement
38 CP (up from 35)
Great General II Promotion
Charge I Promotion (10 % attack in open terrain ; +25 % attack vs wounded unit)
unlocked at Gunpowder (1 tech earlier, now cannons lancer and tercio all on same tech. perfect for the Lion of the North)

Carolean moved back to rifling and is now a fusilier replacement (same as vanilla)
38 (up from 35)
retains Grenadier, General Stack, and March promotions

UB - Bastu
baths replacement
+4 culture (up from 2)
+1 and +1 from Temples, Amphitheaters and Gardens
15% and 15% during Golden Ages (up from 10%)
1 from tundra tiles
Requires fresh water (as opposed to river)

I know people wanted something more 'Swedish', but honestly if you read up on the history of saunas, they are all over Scandinavia, they all were developed simultaneously (we don't really know where the first one began), and the only reason Finland is known for saunas more than the others is because their sauna culture wasn't disrupted by the advent of Syphilis like it was in the rest of Europe. The Swedish Empire encompassed Finland anyways; Hakkapeliitta were Finnish too.

Giving Sweden a sauna is a great idea. I would prefer it to be named Sauna, as that's easily recognizable and identifiable as part of Scandinavian culture.

Tundra tiles are almost never worth working, and adding 1 gold to them doesn't really change that. It would take something like +2 food before I would consider working tundra. Alternatively, you could give the gold to the city, for each tundra tile in range, so you could benefit from tundras without having to work them.

Loosening the fresh water requirement probably won't matter much. How often are you going to have cities that have lake and tundra, but not river? Maybe you could remove the fresh water requirement?

Let’s get to work!

Bork bork bork!

 

[Jarula]

I could up the notices birth bonus to 7 maybe? If I put it up to 15 that would be more than 3x as good as the base council.

BOO boo BOO should be production.

 

[Blue Ghost]

BOO boo BOO should be production.

Please don't be rude. He heard you the first time, and it's his decision how he wants to implement it.

 

[Jarula]

Sorry was a little bit drunk.

Wasn't rude as I saw it rather humorous if nothing else.

 

[doublex55]

UB - Fale Tel'e
Council replacement
+1 Science and +1 Culture (up from 1 only)
+1 to Fishing boats
5 when a citizen is born, scaling with era
15 when a naval unit is produced in the city, scaling with era.

Would be better changing the 5 science and 15 science to production... Stronger more accurate and more gooder

Giving a bonus on naval unit production doesnt make much sense when council come so much earlier. Also, @Blue Ghost It doesnt make sense to give an exploration promotion to ships when scout can explore immediately.

If you wanna make a council/naval building i would have it unlock at fishing instead. Polynesia has very little reason to go for early roads due to settling all over the place and no isolation unhappiness. This way they can rush sailing. I would have this building give a free combat promotion to naval units like ottomans seige foundry.

 

[Jarula]

Good idea double. Actually a good one would be granting a combat bonus to nearby land units.

Or even cooler worker speed bonus.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Is there no event trigger for when a unit kills another unit? So I can't make the "50% chance of spawning a Worker when killing a unit" ability for the eagle? If so, that would be really dumb.

Any more experienced modders able to help?

 

[pineappledan]

There must be. Otherwise how could Carolean's grenadier ability work?

 

[Blue Ghost]

There must be. Otherwise how could Carolean's grenadier ability work?

Coded directly in the DLL. I would prefer to stick to Lua.

 

[doublex55]

Good idea double. Actually a good one would be granting a combat bonus to nearby land units.

Or even cooler worker speed bonus.

Giving them a great general effect for land units could be really interesting. They will be super strong at costal land warfare with this and the moai.

Actually, its kind of concerning to want to rush sailing but also have a swordsman replacement. Since there are already so many swordsman replacements, could they get something else?

 

[Jarula]

I know right a unique lighthouse that grants great general to all naval units would actually be pretty realistic and good.

 

[pineappledan]

I would have expected a naval unit for such an ocean-focused civ as Polynesia. There are already enough swordsman replacements. But you already did the Prau for Indonesia, so you wouldn't want to rehash that. And the Koa design is pretty cool.

I kinda consider their embarked units a unique naval unit in their own right. There's the tongiaki though. There are fewer trireme options, yes. but something about shark-tooth clubs got me a little more excited. Also changing to trireme makes a dilemma. I could move it down to fishing, but the proa and quinquereme are already moved forward too. It might make sense to do it though because it would give you a naval melee unit to improve sea resources on the same tech as work boats unlock. That would mean 3 uniques in the ancient era though.

Possible Tongiaki

Spoiler :

16 (2+ from trireme)
4 move
can enter deep ocean (triremes can currently do these already due to Polynesia's UA. good to have it in writing though)
+1 vision
Supply promotion (can heal outside of friendly territory)
5XP and 20 culture when constructing fishing boats. scaling with era

Just splitballing. If you guys have some ideas/opinions for the tongiaki let me know. Otherwise I'll probably stick with the Koa.

Leiomano should be doable, if somewhat Lua-intensive. One way to do it is to use a promotion as a status marker. Have the Koa give an enemy unit it hits a "wounded" promotion. Then at the start of every player's turn, check each of their units, and for each one that has the promotion, remove the promotion and deal them 10 damage. (Though I might change it to end of their turn, so their unit can do something before dying.)
I did something similar in my Madoka Magica conversion series with Kyouko Sakura's Chain Lancer. You could adapt my code from there.

Cool, Maybe I'll lean on you for that then. thanks for pointing me in the right direction

If you're feeling adventurous, you could have the Fala Tel'e grant naval units a promotion that gives science for exploring? Don't know if that's feasible, but you could try reverse-engineering the Bandeirantes's ability.

I think polynesia would end up running away with the game if you did that. Bandeirantes appear in medieval whereas this is first tech line. If you are Brazil and want to capitalize on bandeirantes you have to make a decision NOT to explore for a good portion of the game. Essentially you have to make a sacrifice, whereas with a council improvement you would be churning science out on the open seas

Giving Sweden a sauna is a great idea. I would prefer it to be named Sauna, as that's easily recognizable and identifiable as part of Scandinavian culture.

There's a balancing act as to whether to appease those that want it to be distinct from the Finnish, or those that want it to be easilly recognizable. There are regional diferences between Swedish bastus and Finnish saunas. I would of course mention that a bastu is functionally a sauna, but Bastus use fewer rocks so you aren't actually able to pour water on them like you can in a sauna. This means bastus are dry heat sessions, where saunas are wet heat sessions. Russians have cute little hats they wear in their saunas!

Tundra tiles are almost never worth working, and adding 1 gold to them doesn't really change that. It would take something like +2 food before I would consider working tundra. Alternatively, you could give the gold to the city, for each tundra tile in range, so you could benefit from tundras without having to work them.

It's a very minor buff, but I figured tundra hills and forests would get some use. Could I interest you in +1 on tundra instead? Also it could encourage use of the tundra pantheon.

Loosening the fresh water requirement probably won't matter much. How often are you going to have cities that have lake and tundra, but not river? Maybe you could remove the fresh water requirement?

Yeah I did that mostly for flavour. many sauna sessions end with a roll in the snow outside, or by jumping in a nearby lake. I might remove the freshwater limit entirely if you think it is out of place.

Giving a bonus on naval unit production doesnt make much sense when council come so much earlier. Also, It doesnt make sense to give an exploration promotion to ships when scout can explore immediately.

If you wanna make a council/naval building i would have it unlock at fishing instead. Polynesia has very little reason to go for early roads due to settling all over the place and no isolation unhappiness. This way they can rush sailing. I would have this building give a free combat promotion to naval units like ottomans seige foundry.

I'm not sure I understand what was said here. It's not really a bonus to naval production, but a reward. Giving it at the beginning like this just ensures you will be able to use it for the entire game.

I'm not in love the with the idea of science as a reward for constructing boats, but I don't think it's bad or unsuitable either. I don't see much issue with having a first line tech just stay where it is. They have to get plantations at some point . Either of the proposed UUs (tongiaki or koa) would be on that top side of the tech tree too, so I would want to avoid putting all their uniques in neat little rows, especially if I am moving stuffaround to make it so. Also wheels would become a desperately useless tech for Polynesia if it didn't have councils.

Great comments so far. keep em coming!