3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[Blue Ghost]

Give Sweden IKEA?

That’s silly, but it might work. Would IKEA be a Factory replacement? Or maybe Arsenal?

 

[pineappledan]

IKEA will sue us for sure. Or they’ll try, I’m behind 7 proxies.

We’d best call it ‘large blue Nordic furniture store’, just to be safe though

Grocer replacement, obviously. Because of delicious and affordable meatballs

 

[infidel88]

Hospital replacement generating tourism or monopoly bonuses or something. IKEA is more iconic to current popculture than saunas (which arent really Swedish.

Thinking more - I would make it, as an addition to current bonuses of hospital:
1 local per 8;
10% of city into ;
-15% boredom threshold;
+2 per each other IKEA;

This is a very late building and as such should be incredibly strong. My vision - major boost to happiness, which can help ideological fight or allow Swedes bigger war weariness. Also, the more IKEAs you have, the bigger bonuses you get, somehow to represent their franchise nature.

 

[doublex55]

Maybe the IKEA could be a unique sweedish corporation? Lots of people think sweeden is pretty bland, this would be something really unique for them.

 

[pineappledan]

Oh god are people taking this serious?

 

[doublex55]

Oh god are people taking this serious?

Why not?

Scythe Chariot should avoid zone of control and onl deal the damage if it would incur zone of control penalty.

 

[pineappledan]

because IKEA isn't even top 500 for largest companies
It's not even the largest company by revenues FROM SWEDEN. Thats Volvo.
The company is only 60 years old
It's a bizarre plug for a consumer good within a professed historical video game
How would you even make it a corporation without cannibalizing the existing corporations? Would it give franchise benefits to non-monopoly resources like cattle?

Simply put if you guys want IKEA in the game I'm not your guy

And I don't know how you would code a bypassing of ZOC, separate from just being adjacent to something. I'm not sure if that's possible.

 

[doublex55]

because IKEA isn't even top 500 for largest companies
It's not even the largest company by revenues FROM SWEDEN. Thats Volvo.
The company is only 60 years old
It's a bizarre plug for a consumer good within a professed historical video game
How would you even make it a corporation without cannibalizing the existing corporations? Would it give franchise benefits to non-monopoly resources like cattle?

Simply put if you guys want IKEA in the game you'll have to get someone else to do it

And I don't know how you would code a bypassing of ZOC, separate from just being adjacent to something. I'm not sure if that's possible.

Ok makes sense for why no IKEA.

The austrian UU already has a promotion to avoid ZOC. By doing it this way you only get the damage if you are adjacent and you move adjacent.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm not aware of any action which procs on the hussar's ignoring of ZOC. I'll leave it up to Adan_E at any rate. I really think that it won't make nearly the impact you think it will.

Actually, if you guys really wanted unique corporations to be a thing, you know who your best candidate is? A Korean Chaebol. Their national/corporate structure is baked into their culture at this point. It’s pretty neat in a vaguely dystopian way.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'm not aware of any action which procs on the hussar's ignoring of ZOC. I'll leave it up to Adan_E at any rate. I really think that it won't make nearly the impact you think it will.

It’s probably possible to code that, but would be very tedious. You’d need to save a list of all adjacent enemies before the move, and compare them to the adjacent enemies afterward. I’d say it’s not worth the trouble.

 

[doublex55]

It’s probably possible to code that, but would be very tedious. You’d need to save a list of all adjacent enemies before the move, and compare them to the adjacent enemies afterward. I’d say it’s not worth the trouble.

Well it will be op if you get the damage when just approaching an enemy. Its better than splash in all situations.

 

[pineappledan]

Well it will be op if you get the damage when just approaching an enemy. Its better than splash in all situations.

Not really. You’ll do an extra 5dmg against your main target guaranteed. Sure. With splash you can hit things behind your target that you couldn’t otherwise reach. With splash you only need to expend 1 action, your attack, for the full effect. For the full effect of the scythe, a hypothetical 15 extra dmg on a target, you need at least 2 open terrain tiles adjacent to it, and 3 movement points. You have no chance to pull out of melee range after. It’s an incredibly risky ability for something as delicate as a skirmisher.

Also keep in mind that Adan is giving the chariot the chariot rough terrain penalty, so the unit can’t move and attack in rough terrain, a significant downgrade from the skirmisher

 

[doublex55]

With splash you cannot hit things you would otherwise reach. So this promotion is just op compared to splash. It can be a bit stronger since it is a unique promotion but not this much stronger. Starting 1 tile away it is easy 10 bonus damage to main target.

This promotion is about equal in power to splash 1+ splash 2 except you also get extra damage on the main target. Keep that in mind when balancing the stats. Also, i think this promtion needs to be lost on upgrade.

 

[pineappledan]

With splash you cannot hit things you would otherwise reach. So this promotion is just op compared to splash. It can be a bit stronger since it is a unique promotion but not this much stronger. Starting 1 tile away it is easy 10 bonus damage to main target.

I heartily disagree with you about how OP it is, but at this point I'm tired of arguing about it. It's got more single target damage potential than splash, but at significant risk to the unit, and at the cost of reduced AoE. The optimal use of the scythes is also much more specific. Oh well. I guess we'll see when it gets made.

This promotion is about equal in power to splash 1+ splash 2 except you also get extra damage on the main target. Keep that in mind when balancing the stats. Also, i think this promtion needs to be lost on upgrade.

Oh for sure. heavy skirmishers don't have scythes coming off of their.... axels?

 

[adan_eslavo]

I never really understood your decision to give licornes range, I thought you were hoping to play up the 'horse artillery' thing. I figured you were going to give them +1 move. combined with half move in enemy territory, that would give them a move and fire ability, but only on open terrain. I don't think you should necessarily reduce the damage though. Keep on truckin!

You know, I always try to be as close as possible to history. Licornes had different trajectories (flat and longer) and could use any type if ammo. It also was used often to attack units behind obstacles. If it will be no game fitting I will tweak it of course.

If I manage do make scythe chariot I will test it and tell you how it works. I dont think it will be op. Rough terrain penalty will be nightmare for this unit. Maybe i will decide to lower dmg value to 3 if it own. I work on checking unit on surrounding tiles now. Theres no need to compare units with move before, only dmg to units after each tile.

 

[pineappledan]

Okay, I was thinking about this Swedish quasi-corporation thing, and how it sounds much better as a Korean Chaebol... I think there might be something to making a "sort of" corporation UB, but it makes the most sense because of how corporate structure in Korea is ingrained into their culture. There was also some dissatisfaction expressed towards the Korean UB as proposed:

@Hinin's Korea UB:

Spoiler :

Uigembu office (replaces Constabulary) : reduces boredom by 20 % and crime by 50% in the city ; +2 and +2 ; +3 GA points and +3 when in a city with a connection to the Capital city or in the Capital city ; religious units which aren't of your main religion must expend one extra PM to move in the territory of the city.

@Taegi Kim 's criticism and counter-proposal

Spoiler :

Great project. But as a korean, i see a historical inaccuracy at the new korean constabulary Uigembu office. Although I really like the flavor and theme of it(Korea has synergy to GA and science, plus some faith from seowons.)
Uigembu(Department of the righteous banning) isn't a constabulary. It is a department of the central government. And it isn't even the national police headquater. That is Podocheong(Agency of Catching Bandits). Uigembu only dealt with treasons, crimes against/of the royal family, crimes against/of the foreigners, and extreme perversion of the neo-confusian ideals(such as murdering one's own family, intentionaly not serving ancestral rituals, believing christianity). So it is equivalent to modern day NSA or medival Europe's Inquisition. So restricting foreign religous units does fit, but it isn't everywhere.

(...)I think it would be better to rename it to Kwana(Buareucrat's office). This still isn't really constabulary, more like a local government office. But they did police work as well, so that would be more fitting.

Jongmyo, meaning Tribunal for the Firstborn, is a shrine worshiping dead kings of the Joseon dynasty. It is one of the most valueble historical landmarks in Korea. Making it an Unique Grand temple that transtions a percentage of faith into science, and gives bonuses when a great person is expended.
Sinmoongo, meaning ever hearing drum was hanged at the Gate of the Palace. Theoreticaly, any person could come and ring it, then king himself would come and hear their problem. It is regarded as a pinnacle of neo-confusianism and a national pride toward most Koreans(Although chinese did use it first for very short time). Minor versions of Sinmoongo was installed in Kwana, which could be used to call the local governor. Sinmoongo is a unique garden which could be built anywhere. It has extra culture and science. It gives you a free great person whenever your city's happiness goes to positive(triggers only once per cities).

Currently, Korea has 1 medieval UB (seowon), 1 medieval UU (Hwach'a), and the proposed UU is also medieval (Turtle ship)
The Constabulary is early renaissance, so that would be: 3 medieval, 1 renaissance, which is pretty tight, so maybe that gives us license to really spread their last UC out?

Proposed Chaebol Office: Stock Exchange Replacement
+5 (up from 3)
+1 per 2 in city (same as S.E.)
cost of purchasing in this city reduced by 10% (same as S.E.)
2 Merchant Specialists (same as S.E.)
+2 production to factories built in city (new)
1, 1 and 1 for every Chaebol office in the empire (new)
per office bonus doubles at electronics (2/2/2) (new)
1 and 2%GP generation in city for every international trade route you own (new)

The idea is that every chaebol office in your empire is essentially giving you an internal version of a corporation's franchise bonus. The doubling at electronics mirrors how the Korean Chaebols like Samsung and LG really exploded when they started producing electronics. We can't make foreign franchises with a UB, so I figured giving a bonues per trade route should do.

For context, Chaebol is the romanized term for a korean multinational conglomerate, run by a powerful family. These are incredibly powerful, often monopolistic corporate entities which have vigorous backing from the S.K. government. They include such household names as Samsung, Hyundai, LG and Kia. Samsung alone, in 2014, accounted for 17% of Korea's entire GDP. It's electronics division (roughly 70% of the chaebol's worth), is currently ranked the 15th largest company in the world. The Chaebols exert incredible power over S. Korean economics, politics and culture.

EDIT: as an aside, @infidel88 suggested we might make a unique hospital improvement. On further consideration, I realized that is completely out of the question. There are ideological tenets which provide free hospitals, research labs and airports in every city, often as much as a full era before you would get them normally. This synergizes too hard with any UB, so unless those policies are changed I think those 3 buildings are off-limits.

 

[De_Genius]

I have two question regarding the Danish Ting.

First of all: the description says "+1 and +1 in each Village, Towns and Colonia". Does that mean in all cities ?

Secondly: the description says "" after (replaces the Printing Press). Does that mean that it provides those yields and how many of them ?

I am asking, since I could be interested in helping out. I have no experience of modding Civ5, but I am Danish and have 10 years of game programming, so if I could get a little push in the right direction, I could get started.

 

[pineappledan]

The ting (is it supposed to be "thing"?) is supposed to replace the printing press, a national wonder. I believe the bonuses to village/town/colonia are meant to be empire-wide. Bonuses to specific building classes are a staple of unique national wonders, and instead there's bonuses to specific improvements, so I think that's the giveaway

I interpret the icons at the beginning as indicating the building's "flavor". So, the ting gives bonuses to diplomacy, production, culture and food. It doesn't necessarily indicate order of importance, or the intensity of those bonuses.

If you are offering to take on programming for Denmark then you have complete control over what you want to add; the specific bonuses, or even the units/buildings themselves, are not set in stone. I believe the person who originally proposed those uniques was Hinin, who is French. If, as a Dane, you have some strong idea of what you would want to add then go with your gut. The Langskib sounds pretty uncontroversial. Can't have vikings without longships after all. I don't really know anything about the 'Things', but civ games are a learning opportunity!

I like the idea of having something in the game which reflects the more agrarian, societal aspects of Danish culture. Can't be pillaging all the time, after all. I would just caution against giving any bonuses which seem immediately at odds with their current playstyle. ie. don't give them a science building so good that they can into space, or reorient them to a culture victory

 

[adan_eslavo]

Few tweaks like always.
@Blue Ghost Please look at the credits for next art authors.

 

[doublex55]

Few tweaks like always.
@Blue Ghost Please look at the credits for next art authors.

Change wording on scythe chariot from “while moving” to “after moving”