3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[adan_eslavo]

Guys, I'm pretty much at my wit's end here with my mod contributions. Can someone with better coding chops help me?

I try to run my mod through SQLite and I get 2 strange bugs:
- no table exists error for 'Language_en_US' table. My code does not differ from that used within the CBP
- Indonesia/Prau/UnitArtDef.sql: Unique constraint failed ArtDefine_UnitInfos.Type

I should note that in one the first error, I copied the format wholesale from the CBP itself. In the second, the ArtDefine codes are copied wholely unaltered from the original mod

Now as I finished my balance part for v11 I think I will rewrite your two civs and add them to my part as you asked me a while ago. I also plan to add new leader flavors and other balance suggestions that will come up during this time. I will try also complete MChurch but for now I met a wall. So that would be all for v12.

 

[pineappledan]

I liked the events for Byzantine.

Which one is your favorite? Option 1 or option 2? I put the rest of your comments directly onto the spreadsheet for you. I would encourage people to take advantage of the spreadsheets

Oh yeah, that was the one idea I had for the Monitor, which I think we deemed a bit boring. How about it being one-unit 'Gunboat Diplomacy' ie. parking it in city-state territory gives influence per turn? Since it takes a strategic resource, it can't be spammed willy-nilly, and given how influence works lately, it would be a small help but not overpowered anyway.

The current plan for the Xiafan Guanjun is basically this. The original idea came from the American Connecticut class battleship. I don't think it would fit with the monitor because the boat never survived the Civil War, and never left American waters. I'm not super broken-up if one or two of the UCs are kinda boring. Some of the UCs are fantastically unique, and we can't swing for the fences every time; Blue Ghosts' arms would fall off then

We had a discussion about the monitor, and I had forgotten about it. I think we agreed to remove 1 movement point and give it double move on coast (bringing back the old ironclad promotion). If people aren't satisfied with that, here are some possibilities for other promotions that might work on the monitor
Low profile: 25% for ranged attacks to "miss" and do 0 damage. The boat was designed to present the smallest possible profile to the enemy. Law of averages would say this is effectively a cover promotion, but it would stack with cover and add some RNG
Monitor: Friendly or Owned cities gain 5CP if a Monitor is adjacent to them
Hampton Roads: Enemy units that move adjacent to the Monitor have their movement reduced to 1, unless their movement is already 0. Essentially an advanced ZOC net. enemies cant move in and then move back, and no promotions which ignore ZOC can get around the monitor

Landwehr's promotions are a bit at odds with each other: do you want them to be in allied city-state territory, or garrisoned in your own cities for the bonus?

Yet another reason why I think Imperial vigilance is a non-starter. To the untrained eye it is indistinguishable from "Homeland Guardian", which is a promotion that already exists. The only difference is that Homeland is only your own territory and stays on promotion and Vigilance is CS states too, but is dropped. IMO this makes Homeland the better promotion

Derp, I completely done forgot about the tophet icon making. I'm sorry.

no problem whatsoever. Actually if you wanted to spruce the icons that I made up that might be a real big help. I don't know how to make the "sunbeam" effect which is on most icons, and so mine don't have that. They couls also maybe use some touching up around the edges.

Now as I finished my balance part for v11 I think I will rewrite your two civs and add them to my part as you asked me a while ago. I also plan to add new leader flavors and other balance suggestions that will come up during this time. I will try also complete MChurch but for now I met a wall. So that would be all for v12.

thanks coolguy...

 

[De_Genius]

Could you attach a current version of your mod? I could look at it tonight.

Thanks a lot. I have attached it here.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Thanks a lot. I have attached it here.

You didn't set it to update the database with the Goedendag files.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Do we have a model for Prau? I can see that you used standard trireme model. We could add something.
@pineappledan Did you plan to change something in your project. I can do this now. For now I made Prau work (cleaned up the naming, changed obsolete tech to Navigation (was Astronomy), change upgrade unit to Caravel (was Corvette), cut unnecessary art from Sulu civ, fixed flags, fixed art_def value).

 

[De_Genius]

You didn't set it to update the database with the Goedendag files.

I am an idiot... I knew that it was possibly something obvious to someone else than me

I just added them now and there it is

I will work on it in the weekend and try to get the UB started as well.

 

[pineappledan]

Do we have a model for Prau? I can see that you used standard trireme model. We could add something.

I'm unaware of any existing unit assets that resemble a prau. Closest I can think of is some of the polynesian double-hulled canoes or the tongiaki. The base mod doesn't have a prau skin

@pineappledan Did you plan to change something in your project. I can do this now. For now I made Prau work (cleaned up the naming, changed obsolete tech to Navigation (was Astronomy), change upgrade unit to Caravel (was Corvette), cut unnecessary art from Sulu civ, fixed flags).

No balance changes that I can think of until more people comment and try it out.

I had planned on giving the Prau a unique promotion which is lost on upgrade called "Flying the Ama" - +2 movement. The extra moves are tied to the unit model already, so the promotion wouldn't actually do anything, it would just be for flavor.

Edit: @Blue Ghost I realized when trying to write up Egypt in the spreadsheet, that I don't really have much of a clue as to what you plan to do with the UCs.

You responded positively to some criticisms and counterproposals for the nilometer and khopesh's stats and attributes, but I don't have a firm idea of what you are trying. For now I have gone through the old chats and come up with a "composite" plan for each UC, based on the discussion

 

[adan_eslavo]

For now I will use tongiaki. The if you find better model I will change it.
We could also find some different model for Klepht. I know they are really similar to Janissary, but...
Maybe we could hire some unit model maker

 

[FoxOfWar]

@pineappledan Yeah, t'was just a thought for Monitor. Boring But Practical can work too, and just a decent coastal defense boat can work wonders given America's penchant for landgrabbing.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I found this model. I will use it ([4] Kapal Jung (Trireme))
I will attach description to your UCs in my part of description to be easily found by other users. I will mention there that you created those units.

 

[pineappledan]

crap now that I made a post about possible monitor upgrades, I like all 3 of the things I suggested way more than I like that double movement on coast... They are way more historically interesting

Low profile: Floating only 18 inches above the waterline, The Monitor was designed to present the smallest possible profile to the enemy.
Monitor: The Monitor class literally gets its name from the proper latin term Monitor - To admonish, or remind someone of their duty. Monitors were primarily used as defense craft which patrolled the mouths of harbours, all the way up to WWII.
Hampton Roads: The original monitor became famous at the Battle of Hampton Roads. The entire creation of this unit was to prevent the breakout of Confederate forces into open water. The monitor successfully forced engagements and blockaded the South into the river system, where they couldn't threaten the North's coastal towns.

I have updated the spreadsheet with China, Denmark, Egypt, England, Songhai, and Maya.
Songhai and Maya have not been taken on by anyone, and I've drafted some ideas and such for both.

 

[FoxOfWar]

I like all of those promotions - I think I'd go with doing away with double coastal movement, and instead a combination of Low Profile and Monitor for now. Tweak 'em if balance becomes a concern, though it might not because of it being such a late unit.

 

[pineappledan]

Monitor has cover I right now instead of low profile, since they would function roughly the same. I’m cool with that.
Essentially low profile would be a flavour thing, and potentially an edge case thing, if someone got enough xp to get cover as well. Pretty lulzy if ranged was reduced by 66%, and had a chance of dealing 0 as well

 

[FoxOfWar]

Monitor has cover I right now instead of low profile, since they would function roughly the same. I’m cool with that.
Essentially low profile would be a flavour thing, and potentially an edge case thing, if someone got enough xp to get cover as well. Pretty lulzy if ranged was reduced by 66%, and had a chance of dealing 0 as well

Honestly, if someone manages to get those promotions on a unit that late AND make it meaningful, they've earned it.

 

[Blue Ghost]

@Blue Ghost I realized when trying to write up Egypt in the spreadsheet, that I don't really have much of a clue as to what you plan to do with the UCs.

You responded positively to some criticisms and counterproposals for the nilometer and khopesh's stats and attributes, but I don't have a firm idea of what you are trying. For now I have gone through the old chats and come up with a "composite" plan for each UC, based on the discussion

Thanks for all your work! I haven't done Egypt yet (will do that this weekend). I'll be adding my comments for the civs assigned to me in the spreadsheet.

Would it be possible to mark for each UU/UB what features are new, and what features are carried over from the original?

 

[pineappledan]

I have marked unclaimed civs with an asteriks. on their table.

It takes a fair bit of time to make each of these pages , and you have full editorial access over the pages, especially if you have laid claim to them. If things change, throw the old versions down below or to the side. Or get rid of them entirely

 

[David de Vasconcelos]

What do you think about Rome?

UU: Legion (Swordman)
17 CS (up from 15).
Can build roads, latifundium and forts.
Starts with the Cover I and Shock I Promotion.
Pilum - 10 damage to adjacent enemies every turn you are fortified.
*Diligence - Being near a Great General increase the speed of improvements for legionnaires by 25%-50%
*Mithraism - "When they are far from Rome, the strength of the Legions comes from faith in the God Mithras."
*Mithraism - Increases by up to 10% when away from the Capital, +3% flank from other Legion, increase ?% Religious divergence (Crazy ideia).

UI: Latifundium
2 production
1 gold
+15% border growth rate
+1 food to adjacent farms
+2 food in tiles adjacents (wheat)
+1 food, +1 production in tiles adjacents(cattle, sheep)
+1 gold, +1 culture in adjacent plantations.
50% discount when purchasing tiles around.
Available in calendar
If possible, a free copy of the resource beneath a latifundium appears adjacent to the latifundium after 30 turns of being worked
It should never be built adjacent to the other latifundium.
Adjacent tiles do not accumulate yields of other latifundiums.

 

[FoxOfWar]

Bit of a 'too much' in both, @David de Vasconcelos - I don't think Legion needs change from what it is in VP, least for now. Latifundium is probably also just fine with yields + yields to nearby farms + generating that extra resource after a while.

Uniques tend to be better if they are a few things that are powerful than a ton of things piled together in a mishmash. In this case, if Latifundium is a better plantation that also gives a copy of the resource(and can be put on wheat), that's already something you'd actively think about placing and using in-game.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Spoiler Latifundium :

UI: Latifundium
Can be built on the same tiles as farm or plantation
2 production
1 gold
+1 gold and 1 production to adjacent farms and plantations/1 production on latifundium for every adjacent luxury resource or wheat choose better, both will be too much and they are too similar
+2 food to wheat (improved)
Available in engineering or currency choose one, later UI means more bonuses
If possible, a free copy of the resource beneath a latifundium appears adjacent to the latifundium after 10 turns of being worked I would drop this or lower to 10
It should never be built adjacent to the other latifundium.
If possible aquires 1 adjacent tile for the city. (Before placing recource) weaker citadel, latifundias were sometimes small garrisons

Generally it would be something between farm, plantation and citadel. It is probably still to powerful. Cut this if needed. Now 4 UCs would be available in Classical era so Ballista should be moved to earlier tech (ancient).

 

[David de Vasconcelos]

Bit of a 'too much' in both, @David de Vasconcelos - I don't think Legion needs change from what it is in VP, least for now. Latifundium is probably also just fine with yields + yields to nearby farms + generating that extra resource after a while.

Uniques tend to be better if they are a few things that are powerful than a ton of things piled together in a mishmash. In this case, if Latifundium is a better plantation that also gives a copy of the resource(and can be put on wheat), that's already something you'd actively think about placing and using in-game.

About the Legion, the mithraism promotion was just a crazy idea even, based on the common beliefs of legionaries. The diligence promotion would make a good use of the Great generals in peacetime or in preparation for war, in addition to encouraging the player to use the legion to make improvements.

My initial idea about the latifundium was that it would be an improvement to optimize the adjacent tiles, as plantations, farms (wheat or not) and pastures (sheep and cattle). It should not necessarily be built on a plantation or wheat.
I believe that the function of the latifundium should be to optimize the use of the resources to its maximum to the maximum, besides helping in the demarcation and expansion of the territory. Perhaps a copy of the adjacent resource could be generated under the latifundium itself.

Spoiler Latifundium :

UI: Latifundium
Can be built on the same tiles as farm or plantation
2 production
1 gold
+1 gold and 1 production to adjacent farms and plantations/1 production on latifundium for every adjacent luxury resource or wheat choose better, both will be too much and they are too similar
+2 food to wheat (improved)
Available in engineering or currency choose one, later UI means more bonuses
If possible, a free copy of the resource beneath a latifundium appears adjacent to the latifundium after 10 turns of being worked I would drop this or lower to 10
It should never be built adjacent to the other latifundium.
If possible aquires 1 adjacent tile for the city. (Before placing recource) weaker citadel, latifundias were sometimes small garrisons

Generating the copy of the resource in 10 turns is a good idea, in 30 turns the player may have improved all the titles around.

Would both +1 production and +1 gold along with +1 production adjacent luxury would be so overdone?

Now 4 UCs would be available in Classical era so Ballista should be moved to earlier tech (ancient).

Maybe make the Ballista available in military theory, this would help in expansion before the Legion is available.