The one used by Lastsword does indeed make far more sense : it reflects how the weapon was used by formations of militians (hence the fact that all the Goedendag are pointed in the same direction).
3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread
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The one used by Lastsword does indeed make far more sense : it reflects how the weapon was used by formations of militians (hence the fact that all the Goedendag are pointed in the same direction).
pineappledan
Deity
So if you guys have been looking at the up and coming changes to Morocco, they are getting the ability to pillage trade routes without war. that extra yields on pillaging trade routs fro the corsair is now dynamite
Ok, next question: what was the last version of Goedendaag and Waag, because I cannot find anything mentiond in excel overview and files of De_Genius are a bit unfinished. What I found that it is mix of heavy defense building and a bank. It has bonus on investemnet and what I remember 3%GPP for something.
pineappledan
Deity
Spoiler Netherlands :
Production. Has 16 (+1) 
Science. +1 
Culture, Gems +1 For Waag:
- 10
CP,
- 3
Gold,
- requires Walls (flavor like in Barbican),
- 1 GMerP,
- cap for %GPP at 30%,
- more.
For Goedendag:
- "Long Range" (If unit has at least 1 MP left, gains additional 10% CS. NL) or
- "Militia" (+10% CS if unit is adjacent to the city. NL) or
- "Defenders" (+15% CS on defense. NL) or just
- "Near Capital Bonus" or
- "Homeland Guardian".
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pineappledan
Deity
I agree somewhat. I don't think either idea needs to be thrown out entirely, but I think they are a bit flat.
Spoiler :
GPP in the city for every imported/exported luxury resource from other empires, up to a max of 30%.
Crime and Poverty slightly (10%)
Rationale:
I like the idea of the Goedendag being only nominally more powerful than the pikeman it replaces, but having bonuses to its production. They were burgher militia, so they are trained directly out of the city's population growth. This combined with their 25% cost reduction makes them even cheaper than settlers easy to pump out, and cheaper to buy outright. You can stand to neglect your military in medieval, and not pay for army upkeep because if someone declares war on you then you could raise an army of Goedendags extremely quickly. I think this fits well with the passive, peaceful playstyle of the Dutch, because if you actually end up using your UU then you aren't doing very well.
The 20% buff not applying to the Goedendag itself was a bug at first, but I like the idea that it forces you to swarm these units and have them travel in pairs to buff each other. It's like the Hoplite's discipline promotion on steroids.
Re. the Waag, I didn't really understand the bonuses to city defense and HP. The Amsterdam Waag was built directly into the walls of the city and is the most famous example, but a) It didn't actually contribute to the city's defense and b) it was the only example I could find of a waag being in the walls. They were usually located next to the marketplace which was usually in the center of town.
Instead, I think a reduction in crime and poverty made sense because these weigh houses' main purpose was to ensure goods were being sold in a fair manner. The % GPP synergizes well with Netherland's UA, but I added 2 science for every monopoly, which synergizes with the Netherland's ability to get monopolies easier.
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I think we should reconsider buff for both UCs.Spoiler Netherlands :
For the Goedendag, I suggested a promotion called "Burgemeeste" (Burgomaster) : since the luxury resources are so important to the Netherlands in VP, why not transfering the initial idea for the Kibitium (+50 % CS when in a tile with a GP improvement) to this UM by replacing "GP improvement" by "improved luxury resource" ? One of the main complains about the initial concept for "Legacy" was that there was not enough GP improvement in the early game : luxury resources are much more present, and being able to defend them in your territory or deny them to your opponent (in order to cripple its economy) could be a nice touch. This promotion could replace the "+50 % against mounted units" of the regular Pikeman, since the "Unusual weapon" promotion already gives a bonus against mounted units => The Goedendag would be a cheap unit capable of defending your luxury resources against all types of threats, and acting with other units to bring mounted units down.
For the Waag, the picture used by mikeburnfire is good I think. For the bonus, I fear it could ressemble too much the Barbican : I think we could make the defensive bonus scale like the GPP one (it could represent how the Netherlands get stronger through friendly relations : the equivalent of what Greece do to its units with CS, the Netherlands could do it to their cities with major civilization alliances and/or trading).
What do you think ?
Edit : I like the ideas of pineappledan too.
Also, I saw that you added the accute accent to Grande École. It's nice, but I thought that the game doesn't like "unusual"/"non-English" way of writing names (if you want to go all-out on that road, why not giving back the circumflex to Château) ?
Amically
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Spoiler Netherlands v2 :
Spoiler Netherlands v2 :
I think some testing will be needed (30
seems far too much, maybe 20 , since there will already be 15 from Fealty). Other than that, thank you for taking both or ideas into account. 
pineappledan
Deity
20 max with an increment of 2 CS sounds good. For reference, Acropolis gives a flat 10 CS, no conditions and an era sooner. Having 10 imported/exported luxuries is actually pretty hard to pull off, so I think it’s good
pineappledan
Deity
I tried to remove all the accent egus from the most recent draft. Did I miss one or two?
Oh sorry I was speaking to adan_eslavo : he added an accute accent to École on page 6 (in blue, so it means it was added purposefully).
pineappledan
Deity
I like the 16 CS because the +25% from luxury equals an even 20 CS; exactly the same CS as longswordsman. With another Goedendag adjacent it gets 21.6, or 23.2 vs mounted. That compares about evenly with a pikeman's 50% vs mounted (CS=22.5). If it was reduced to 15CS they would get 21.75 vs mounted, so they would come in under a regular pikeman even under the best possible circumstance (luxury and adjacent goedendag).
TL;DR - the +1 CS makes the math work out so that Goedendag under optimal conditions is stronger than pikeman under optimal conditions
TL;DR - the +1 CS makes the math work out so that Goedendag under optimal conditions is stronger than pikeman under optimal conditions
I put accent on Ecole because I was amazed by the name Angelsbevaegelse using its own letter. You can correct all new names to save consistency. What I know is that civilopedia doesn't like some non-english letters.
David de Vasconcelos
Chieftain
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I do not know if there is a 3D model of a Pretorian / Legion 2.0 to use in the project, there should also be animations for the improvements.
Your idea for the forum is interesting, but there is already the World Wonder Forum Roman and this is quite iconic.
And I confess that I am curious to see how the Latifundium will work.
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The only things I would correct for the French civ would be :
- Grande École
- Château
- Mousquetaire instead of Musketeer (since a "Musketeer" is basically a Musketman, and the French UM1 refers to the Musketeers of the King, or Mousquetaires du roi) if I want to be nitpicky.
We were already quite advanced in our choices for the Roman UC3/4 : the Ballista and the Latifundium were the main choices. For the Latifundium, we wanted to make it an improvement capable of spawing unique bonus resources or duplicating existing bonus resources (you should be able to find the part where we discussed about it, even though the number of pages doesn't stop to grow on this thread).
There already is.
Praetorian for civ 5 mod. Basically it's a late legion.
The forum took the one from 125 components added to it. Would work great in civ 5. The +5 culture and gold on building construction is mach Uber synergistic with romes UA.
Changing the name of the world wonder is quite easy.
Praetorian for civ 5 mod. Basically it's a late legion.
The forum took the one from 125 components added to it. Would work great in civ 5. The +5 culture and gold on building construction is mach Uber synergistic with romes UA.
Changing the name of the world wonder is quite easy.
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