If impossible, Dojo or the other UB could improve citadels.
3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
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If impossible, Dojo or the other UB could improve citadels.
THEY DONT WORK
You can't add in abilities and expect them to understand what you're adding in even unique improvements-wise. You can add-on to their standard abilities, but you cannot add in custom abilities and expect them to understand a +3 Food Citadel or whichever it was.
Improve just thenbase yields then.
pineappledan
Deity
- I'm reluctant to add things which would help Japan in any way during the medieval. People have expressed a desire to spread uniques out across eras and I think that will help make the game more engaging. If we can give units at different eras then they have more game time where they feel truly unique.
- The Daimyo great general adds to Japan's medieval power spike, and also adds to the saturation of great general replacements which have been suggested.
- This is of course ignoring the fact that the AI opponent, when given a wacky new ability to deal with on a great person, cannot cope
- I like the idea of a musicians guild replacement, but I disapprove of moving it outside renaissance. I see no pressing need to move the building.
- No resources currently exist for a gagabuke building, to my knowledge
UUs
Ironclad replacement: Atakebune_____________existing mod_____historical info
Fusilier replacement: Murata Rifleman_________existing mod_____historical info
Battleship replacement: Yamato______________existing mod_____historical info (largest battleship ever built. Largest guns on a boat ever. Pretty cool)
Cruiser replacement: Mikasa________________existing mod_____historical info
UBs
Opera House replacement: Kabuki Theatre_____existing mod____historical info
Hotel(?) replacement: Onsen________________existing mod_____historical info
Bank replacement: Kabunakama_____________existing mod_____historical info
Personally I would like to see a naval unit for Japan. There is nothing in their current kit which gives them any naval competency, which is weird for an island nation. My personal vote would be for the Mikasa or Yamato, though probably the mikasa, since no one likes super-late UUs.
Japan is a military civ which can pivot to culture in late game. The Kabuki theatre makes the most sense to me, and as an added bonus there is no current UB replacement for the opera house.
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Yamato has my vote.
Next civs I will try to do: Mongolia, Russia and maybe Celts (Oppidium looks like black magic for me now).
@Blue Ghost Do you have icon and picture for assyrian iron chariot and picture for their ub?
Next civs I will try to do: Mongolia, Russia and maybe Celts (Oppidium looks like black magic for me now).
@Blue Ghost Do you have icon and picture for assyrian iron chariot and picture for their ub?
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pineappledan
Deity
Indonesia's 4UC is done. The files can be downloaded here (expires in 30 days)
The Proa uses the base trireme unit model. I found icon artwork, but no unit model exists.
Please let me know if you encounter any bugs. I'm a poopy coder.
There is something strange happening with the mod. When the Indonesian 4UC mod is active the pathfinder unit does not exist, and all civs start with warriors. You cannot build pathfinders, but later scouting units still exist (scouts, explorers, etc.)
I have no idea what could be causing this, nothing in the mode should interact with warriors, pathfinders, or the base tech. It is possible that the replacement worker which needed to be implemented to replace the base worker so that they could build kampungs
@Blue Ghost, w.r.t. your concern about the prau's speed, I can assure you from playing that it does not feel overpowered, especially with the unit restricted to coast. I can't justify reducing movement to only +1 when England gets +1 on everything forever, including embarked units. Right now the unit is a good scout, but does little else; if anything it feels underwhelming. I'm considering giving the prau supply.
Next up: SHOSHONE
Please take a look through my suggested Shoshone components. I would like feedback
Spoiler :
(20 less than trireme)
food and +1 The Proa uses the base trireme unit model. I found icon artwork, but no unit model exists.
Please let me know if you encounter any bugs. I'm a poopy coder.
There is something strange happening with the mod. When the Indonesian 4UC mod is active the pathfinder unit does not exist, and all civs start with warriors. You cannot build pathfinders, but later scouting units still exist (scouts, explorers, etc.)
I have no idea what could be causing this, nothing in the mode should interact with warriors, pathfinders, or the base tech. It is possible that the replacement worker which needed to be implemented to replace the base worker so that they could build kampungs
@Blue Ghost, w.r.t. your concern about the prau's speed, I can assure you from playing that it does not feel overpowered, especially with the unit restricted to coast. I can't justify reducing movement to only +1 when England gets +1 on everything forever, including embarked units. Right now the unit is a good scout, but does little else; if anything it feels underwhelming. I'm considering giving the prau supply.
Next up: SHOSHONE
Spoiler :
25 CSPlease take a look through my suggested Shoshone components. I would like feedback
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Maybe lua code bug if you have one for your worker (check with firetuner)? Did you set dependency for your mods from vp? I have few issues when i havent one.
pineappledan
Deity
There's no lua code, only sql and xml. I'll try adding the dependencies like you say
What do you think we could put instead streltsy for russian uu? I thought about som uu from the times of Ivan the Terrible or WWI. Also we dont have any horse artllery in game, right? The only problem is I cannot find any useful info about some UU. T-34 is a bit too late unit. MIG too. Do you have some better knowledge? Licorne (for cannon or field gun, my vote for now). Peoples militia wasnt restricted to one era. Imperial guard (tercio?).
Mongolia is good for now, but I will look deeper later.
Oppidium is insanely op. I will read about it and think about some nerf. Carpentom surely will be refined.
Mongolia is good for now, but I will look deeper later.
Oppidium is insanely op. I will read about it and think about some nerf. Carpentom surely will be refined.
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Movement on Coast)
Military Supply Cap
RCS
Great Work of Writing Slot
Golden Age on on 
Capital)
Tourism toward all Civilizations on Kill)
WLTKD in Empire on 
Anarchy in the Empire and then 10 turns of 
City-State Influence every turn if unit is within its borders)
City-State)
Trade Routes other players make to a city with a Market will generate +1 
Boredom
Extra Unhappiness from taking the City
"Prize Ships" promotion.
City ConnectionsAttachments
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I created descriptions for next 3 civilizations:
- The Celts - completely reworked. Need balance advices,
- Russia - new UU. Few aspects added to Pogost,
- Mongolia - UU and UB almost the same. Yassa Court need some buff in my opinion. Any ideas?
- The Celts - completely reworked. Need balance advices,
- Russia - new UU. Few aspects added to Pogost,
- Mongolia - UU and UB almost the same. Yassa Court need some buff in my opinion. Any ideas?
pineappledan
Deity
Russia:
Mongolia:
One problem I can think of ahead of time for this is that the leader screen would show the celtic GM replacement, not the Oppidum, as the unique component.
- There's also the Druzhina, a possible longswordsman replacement for Russia. My guess is that the Streltsy would be preferable to the licorne, since it's at the same tech era as the Cossack.
- The recent patch to ostrog already gives 2
gold for strategic resources. G made the original pogost idea obsolete. - I should preface this by saying that I know very little about Russian/Slavic history. I get the sense you are much more familiar. Pogosts were originally boarding houses for wealthy travellers, then administrative centers, then converted to churches. Why not reflect this evolution in role by adding effects to the building as you go through the tech tree? This would give some synergy with Russia's science focus as well.
- 3
/2 base (up from 2) . +4 and +2 for each trade route to and from this city, respectively. (up from 2/2) - At Economics: +3
science and +3 gold from city connections. -10% crime - At Industrialization: +1
faith for every 4 
population
- My experience playing the custom goth civ which @Blue Ghost created is that enhanced pillage healing and no movement to pillage should never mix, ESPECIALLY on cavalry. The combination is too potent and makes mounted units unkillable. There have been enough units given no move to pillage anyways, I would drop it.
- Yassa court looks good as is to me, honestly. The building would increase happiness by at least 3 in any town it's built in, and that's plenty good,but it would drop off in late eras. Once police stations become available you may as well sell it in non-occupied cities. In light of that, you could give it a massive yield increase at electronics. ie. +5 and +5 at electronics.
- Maybe this is a crazy idea, but what if you really played up the scythe thing?
- Scythe chariot - skirmisher replacement
- has chariot rough terrain penalty (loses movement when entering rough terrain)
- ignores zone of control
- When moving, deals 5 damage to every adjacent enemy unit
- The strategy then would be to circle units and use your last move to attack for max damage
- As is, the unit basically has the "feared elephant" promotion, which is out of place.
- What about making Oppidum a unique replacement for the town? That's what Oppidum are, after all. You would have to make a unique GM replacement for Celts, but make it identical to the normal GM except it builds oppida instead of towns.
Spoiler :
- Then I would change the Celtic UA to give +1 Great Merchant Points in capital, and increase this bonus by:
+1 on founding a pantheon,
+1 founding a religion
+1 enhancing a religion
+1 on reformation
Or if that's too hard, simply have the GM points increase with era.
I think the AI would actually do better with this than normal GMs. They don't really seem to understand that they should put towns on roads.+1 founding a religion
+1 enhancing a religion
+1 on reformation
Or if that's too hard, simply have the GM points increase with era.
One problem I can think of ahead of time for this is that the leader screen would show the celtic GM replacement, not the Oppidum, as the unique component.
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FoxOfWar
Prince
Giving Indonesia a spin.
EDIT: I met a militaristic city-state, and got a *Settler* off of them. On turn 6. Probably not intentional, that.
---
Japan: I think Yamato sounds like a thing to do - late Unique is less bothersome when it's just one of four, and given the lateness you can make it relatively awesomesauce to get if you get that far. If not, Japan definitely wants some pretty boat.
Celts: Liking the idea of Oppidum as Town replacement, ties rather nicely into their in-grown, self-contained nature that they'd want to use most merchants for improvements too.
Mongolia: Yassa Court seems good, still has a nice amount of steam even later.
EDIT: I met a militaristic city-state, and got a *Settler* off of them. On turn 6. Probably not intentional, that.
---
Japan: I think Yamato sounds like a thing to do - late Unique is less bothersome when it's just one of four, and given the lateness you can make it relatively awesomesauce to get if you get that far. If not, Japan definitely wants some pretty boat.
Celts: Liking the idea of Oppidum as Town replacement, ties rather nicely into their in-grown, self-contained nature that they'd want to use most merchants for improvements too.
Mongolia: Yassa Court seems good, still has a nice amount of steam even later.
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What I don't like about "Drużyna" is fact that it was created from many types of units and thousands of men (spearmen, archers, horsemen). Making from them single unit is hillarious. I will probably stick with Licorne, becuase if russia got early UB then two renaissance era units wouldn't be a problem. And licorne is really russian invention, and it's first field gun replacement in the game.
- The recent patch to ostrog already gives 2
- I should preface this by saying that I know very little abot Russian/Slavic history. I get the sense you are much more familiar. Pogosts were originally boarding houses for wealthy travellers, then administrative centers, then converted to churches. Why not reflect this evolution by adding effects to the building as you go through the tech tree? This would give some synergy with Russia's science focus as well.
- 3
- At Economics: +3
- At Industrialization: +1
Isn't it too OP for normal UB built in every city? I generally like the idea but it's too overpowered. I will rethink that.
Agreed. I will do something about that.Mongolia:
- My experience playing the custom goth civ which @Blue Ghost created is that enhanced pillage healing and no movement to pillage should never mix, ESPECIALLY on cavalry. The combination is too potent and makes mounted units unkillable. There have been enough units given no move to pillage anyways, I would drop it.
- Yassa court looks good as is to me, honestly. As is, the building would increase happiness by at least 3 in any town it's built in, and that's plenty good. The building would drop off in late eras though, and you may as well sell it when police stations become available. In light of that, you could give it a massive yield increase electronics. ie. +5
Awesome idea. Thank you.
Again I like the idea. I will tweak it probably. The only thing that concerns me is changing UA of Celts. I would like to avoid that. Can we do something about that?
- What about making Oppidum a unique replacement for the town? That's what Oppidum are, after all. You would have to make a unique GM replacement for Celts, but make it completely identical to the normal great merchant except it builds oppida instead of towns.
Then I would change the UA to give +1 Great Merchant Points in capital, and increase this bonus by:Spoiler :
+1 on founding a pantheon,I think the AI would actually do better with this than normal GMs. They don't really seem to understand that they should put towns on roads
+1 founding a religion
+1 enhancing a religion
+1 on reformation
One problem I can think of ahead of time for this is that the leader screen would show the celtic GM replacement, and not the Oppidum as the unique component
pineappledan
Deity
I totally agree. late era uniques will sting a lot less if we can mix them with early bonuses too. W.R.T. Russia, we could definitely justify the T-34 with this logic if we wanted to. No, the REAL reason I wouldn't give Russia a T-34 UU is because T-34s are already the default unit model for tanks. Everyone has T-34s already, it would be like giving Greece a unique trireme replacement: the Trireme.
If we were going to give Russia a unique tank it would have to be something like the IS-2, but that's much less iconic.
I'm really glad for these fresh perspectives you bring. I hadn't even thought of the synergies with the celt's playstyle; I liked the idea of taking the towns off of road infrastructure too. Roads are for dirty Roman interlopers. F*ck roads!
Fair enough. I'm a little worried about 3 UCs for Russia all being in a straight line, 1 after the other. This is the same criticism that was leveled at the Voi though.
Definitely, tweak the numbers how you like. I actually edited my own post to tone down the faith before I saw your own post. I intentionally left the initial bonuses pretty anemic, but late era bonuses do need to be pretty grandiose. I also a figured a faith bonus in industrial would have to pack a wallop, since it's basically only good for great people at that stage in the game.
Well, you'd have to think of some other gimmick to get more GMs into the celt's hands. Otherwise we would have given Celts a bonus they have no good way of using. My first idea was to edit each pantheon belief to give +1 point in the city. That would work too I suppose. It might even be easier.
Without a bonus to GM generation, I fear we would be railroading Celts hard into Industry. Celts would need that 25% GM boost and faith purchases, or they'd never get to use the UC enough for it to matter.
Editing the Celtic UA or pantheons should should be a simple XML or SQL tweak, along with the necessary alteration in the description
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Nicely said.
I will put into Celts Loading Screen.I'm not afraid about the implementation. I'm worried about how this unbalance really well balance UAs from VP. Maybe subsitute "+3
Faith in owned Cities where your Religion is the majority." with +2 
Great Merchant Points after getting Pantheon and +1 Great Merchant Point for founding Religion, extending Religion and choosing Reformation Belief"?
pineappledan
Deity
None of the unique components exist in a vacuum. Doubling the UCs is going to completely alter the balance, so I see no harm in tweaking other components to alter synergies. Sweden is another example of something we will have to change to fit the 4UC in. Hakkapeliitta being re-added means we need to move the Carolean back to fusilier (where it belongs).I'm not afraid about the implementation. I'm worried about how this unbalance really well balance UAs from VP. Maybe subsitute "+3
What you have suggested here (adding
GM points to cities with the majority religion) is probably the most elegant solution. It will also save big on complexity for the text for the celtic UA. If it were me, I would keep the +3 faith, but add +1 GM point on top. EDIT: Okay, I've never actually played the VP Celts myself, so I'm not really sure how this works. Do you only get the +3
faith/city once you have a full religion, or does the faith begin at pantheon? If this bonus requires a full religion, then that actually simplifies things. Just add 1 GM point to every unique pantheon belief, and 1 GM point to the UA for an easy step-upBy itself the Oppidum as a GP tile is a rather unimpressive component. Venice, for instance, can buy out cities and culture bomb with their GM, and the colonia is at least competitive with the oppidum for yields. They also get a free GM after hitting a tech milestone. Giving a flat
great person yield is something that will be completely unique to the celts and will have its biggest impact early (unlike babylon's %-based bonus). It also reinforces their wide playstyle.Okay what the hell? lol. Thanks so much for letting me know. I suspect if I fix the pathfinder bug that would be fixed as well. The city state probably tried giving you a pathfinder unit, realized they have been deleted from the game, and so it gave you the first unit on the unit list, which is settler. Oh well, lucky you! Have you had a chance to take the prau for a spin? I think it might need a little more jam as an early unit
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FoxOfWar
Prince
Just spent a while exploring with Prau, and I'd switch it to have one less movement in exchange for +1 sight. That much movement is almost wasted when I can not see those further coastal tiles to go to, that early.
Also, I think it's just fine giving Celts a bit of a GM boost early. +1/+2 GM points will hardly break anything, but it'll serve as a nice reminder that 'oh yeah, that unique GP improvement is a thing' as you load up as Boudicca.
Also, I think it's just fine giving Celts a bit of a GM boost early. +1/+2 GM points will hardly break anything, but it'll serve as a nice reminder that 'oh yeah, that unique GP improvement is a thing' as you load up as Boudicca.
pineappledan
Deity
The 6 move is a non-negotiable for me 
. Prau are some of the fastest ships ever created, and are still the second fastest sail-powered ships today. Having England match the 2nd fastest sailboat in existence with its UA alone is unconscionable.
Hmm... my main complaint when I was playing with it was that the prau moved too far, too fast, too early (too few friendly borders to resupply and too many barbarians). I was considering giving it supply so it could be more independent. You think it should get +vision instead? Should the vision be lost on upgrade?
. Prau are some of the fastest ships ever created, and are still the second fastest sail-powered ships today. Having England match the 2nd fastest sailboat in existence with its UA alone is unconscionable.Hmm... my main complaint when I was playing with it was that the prau moved too far, too fast, too early (too few friendly borders to resupply and too many barbarians). I was considering giving it supply so it could be more independent. You think it should get +vision instead? Should the vision be lost on upgrade?
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