3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

@adan_eslavo Your licorne UU already uses iron as written. Field guns require iron by default.

I re-checked the changes to the celtic UA. If I am interpretting that right, that's a potential +5 in every town, once you have reformation belief. Granted, as celts you rarely get a reformation, so it realistically caps at 4. Is that as intended? Seems a bit high, I thought a cap of 3 would be enough

Also, it's "oppidum", without the 'i'

 

[adan_eslavo]

Noce catch. I deleted iron requirement for a while but took it back now.

I found sobor from Muscovy of Ivan terrible. Its good overall but substitutes temple...

Celts modified. UA less OP now.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm pretty happy with how we workshopped the Pogost. Here's a mod with existing art assets for it.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I like the idea of Pogost being caravansary replacement instead of customs house. We are now looking for early UB for Russia. Some tweaks unfortunately will be needed.

 

[pineappledan]

well, moving pogost to caravansary would move the UB from medieval to classical. I'm not opposed to the idea, but I don't really think it's necessary either. Russia currently has:
1 classical or medieval UB
1 renaissance UB
2 industrial UUs (both of which use strategic resources)

As an aside, I had forgotten to add the ideology modifiers to the Indonesia UI, did you remember to add the +2 from the ceremony policy as a modifier to the Sachem's council?

 

[adan_eslavo]

As an aside, I had forgotten to add the ideology modifiers to the Indonesia UI, did you remember to add the +2 from the ceremony policy as a modifier to the Sachem's council?

No, I missed that. Will be added. Thanks.

Russia has now spreaded UCs. We need to think if they have to wait for first up to medieval? What about tile culture cost or cheaper buying of tiles could substitute one of its abilities?

 

[pineappledan]

Russia has now spreaded UCs. We need to think if they have to wait for first up to medieval? What about tile culture cost or cheaper buying of tiles could substitute one of its abilities?

Russia has +25% tile spread as part of the UA now. yields on strategics was moved to ostrog. Based on the fact that Russia's UA changed 2 patches ago, and then the science yield was immediately nerfed 1 patch later, I get the feeling that further strengthening tile claiming would break Russia

An idea for the Pogost:
Customs House replacement
3, 1 (up from 2)
4/2 per incoming/outgoing trade route (up from 2/2)
At Economics: Yields for unused strategics:

1 per 10 iron
1 per 8 horse
1 per 10 coal
1 per 10 oil
1GAP per 5 uranium​

At Industrialization: 1 for every 4


the numbers would have to be tweaked. I found that with Russia, I often wan't even able to use my excess strategics because of supply cap. Something like this would at least make me feel like they weren't totally going to waste

 

[doublex55]

Oh customs house is medieval and not reinassance? 1 medieval 1 reinassance 2 industrial is fine. They also have a a super strong UA that starts in ancient.

I think it should just be yields per total strategic resources, it is simpler and you can still trade them this way.

 

[adan_eslavo]

At Economics: Yields for unused strategics:

1 per 10 iron
1 per 8 horse
1 per 10 coal
1 per 10 oil
1GAP per 5 uranium​

At Industrialization: 1 for every 4

the numbers would have to be tweaked. I found that with Russia, I often wan't even able to use my excess strategics because of supply cap. Something like this would at least make me feel like they weren't totally going to waste

Remember that in VP you have monopolies. With russian UA this task is much much easier to achieve. Morover this bonuses would depend on map size and set quantity of resources.

This faith at Industrialization seems weak to me.

I will leave this as it is now probably.

 

[pineappledan]

Lol, so the reason we were thinking of re-doing the Pogost is because of a misunderstanding? Yes, customs house unlocks at Guilds

Update: Indonesia is fixed! I think

Link to Indonesia 4UC (expires in 30 days)
Changelog:

Spoiler :

Added dependencies to mod. Pathfinder unit has returned!
added sentry to Prau (+1 vision)
added ideology yield changes to Kampung (urbanization, 5-year plan and military-industrial complex)
added 3 more yield changes from tech to Kampung:
+1 at navigation
+1 and +1 at dynamite
+2 at ecology

Special thanks to @Blue Ghost, @adan_eslavo, @BazaarJack and @FoxOfWar for their input and advice!

 

[FoxOfWar]

Gonna give fixed Indonesia a spin later today I think. I really like the added uniques for them in concept so I want to see 'em in practice. (Again.)

 

[merill]

Hi
some questions/remarks

[...]

Kampung - UI
built on featureless ocean and coast by embarked workers, cannot be built next to each other (can only build kampungs in deep ocean after compass, because workers cannot embark onto ocean until then)
+1 food and +1 culture
+1 to adjacent fishing boats
+1 at compass
unlocked at sailing

[...]
I would like feedback

I don't think the ai can build it.
2 quick proposal: let a script cheat for the ai (free auto-build 1 every 10 turns) or make a fishing boat replacement instead.

UM - Scythed Chariot (replaces Skirmisher) : While moving inflicts 5 Damage to all adjacent enemy units.

it's op and, i think, costly to do.

UI - Oppidum (replaces Town) : +3 Faith and +2 Culture if built on a Hill

Is that possible (to create/code)? Will the ai understand this?
I think you should restrict the Oppidum to hills only.

UI - Oppidum (replaces Town) : +10 HP to the city in which it is located.

If you succeed to do that, i will be happy to play with the code.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Hello @merill. I assumed that few things from all what we suggested could be hard to make. Of course I will at least try to make them and share the code. I think the +10 HP thing can be done, but I will start from easier things. Some things are hard to do and f.e. I met some difficulties while making Sachem Council (I'm still waiting for new VP version to check its last feature I programmed, but I don't know if it works). I think about restricting oppidium to forests and jungles and delete this hill thing. But I need to rethink that. Scythed Chariot isn't that OP as you think. It has negative promotion when going on rough terrain so its restricted to open areas. I will try to do it and then if it will be too op (after some gameplay) I will then adjust some values. But I like the idea which is very original (thanks @pineappledan for it ).

 

[FoxOfWar]

@merill Actually, I think the AI can build the Kampung. I intentionally automated my worker when I reached Sailing to test this, and lo and behold soon one was building up. Only problem might be that AI might not realize to protect the embarked worker from barbarians, but then again AI loses workers to barbarians constantly anyway.

 

[merill]

Oh, it's nice. TIL.

 

[pineappledan]

At least an embarked worker can defend itself. It would take 2-3 turns for barbs to take a worker building a kampung.

The scythed chariot is a risk-reward thing. You never end your turn next to an enemy with normal skirmishers, so spending all your moves circling opponents would be incredibly risky. You could lose the chariot if you were stupid about it. Max you could do to one opponent is 15 damage in a turn. The only time I think you would really take advantage of the ability would be in a complete rout, cutting down stragglers as the AI is in full retreat. That feels pretty historical

I’m not really worried even if the AI can’t grasp how to best use an oppidum. They never put towns on roads like they’re supposed to either. The oppidum still gives slightly better yields that a town even if placed poorly. I don’t think there should be any restrictions on where it is built; if there were it would actually be worse than a normal town. I do think it should clear forest though. I don’t see the attraction of oppidums getting science from universities, etc.

If you really like it as a concept, the Olmec mod for CBP is really great, and the colossal head UI can be built by great people in forest/jungle

 

[pineappledan]

@Jarula, I think I’m more of a fan of the pogost than the banya for Russia. However, after I finish with Shoshone I was thinking of tackling Sweden next, and maybe I could use your idea for them? I think the bastu (or badstuga... probably call it bastu) would fit their civ better than the proposed stave church, at least for playstyle. Also, giving a unique bath/sauna/bastu/banya to a Nordic country just seems more... correct. It's not Finland, but at least Finland was part of the Swedish Empire.

I am a fan of the idea of having a baths replacement somewhere. That’s one building that has no current replacements, and Sweden needs something early. We have too many temple replacements currently proposed anyways

 

[adan_eslavo]

@pineappledan I didn't need to add ceremony policy dependency. I had it already from something .
I made Licorne unit (it is not published yet). I found it is little bit to OP with the starting configuration so I changed its attack power from 40 to 37.
Unfortunately Ostrog after some update was changed and it also is found at Metallurgy so finally 2 of 3 units was moved from rifling to earlier technology. At rifling stayed fusilier and bonus to camps. My question is then: do I need to move Ostrog back to Rifling, or maybe leave it as it is.

About banya.
I think we should dig more for something truly unique for Sweden.

 

[pineappledan]

Oh I thought you knew. I've been discussing this with the assumption that everyone knew that ostrog was a renaissance building. It works to your advantage, otherwise your field gun and arsenal uniques would arrive on the same tech.I would keep it.

I never really understood your decision to give licornes range, I thought you were hoping to play up the 'horse artillery' thing. I figured you were going to give them +1 move. combined with half move in enemy territory, that would give them a move and fire ability, but only on open terrain. I don't think you should necessarily reduce the damage though. Keep on truckin!

Yeah, I'm not swedish, so I don't really know where to start. Stave churches are primarily Norwegian as well. If anything, bastu are more unique than stave churchs, because it seems the other nordic countries make fun of swedes for doing 'dry' heat sessions, and swedes wear bathing suits/towels instead of just being naked. Nordic cultures all kinda borrow a little too much from each other for there to be as many clear lines as I'd like.

EDIT: Then there's Russians, who do humid saunas and are naked EXCEPT they wear special felt toques. Because it's so hot in there you have to wear a hat. Man you crazy, Russia

 

[infidel88]

Give Sweden IKEA?