3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[David de Vasconcelos]

We were already quite advanced in our choices for the Roman UC3/4 : the Ballista and the Latifundium were the main choices. For the Latifundium, we wanted to make it an improvement capable of spawing unique bonus resources or duplicating existing bonus resources (you should be able to find the part where we discussed about it, even though the number of pages doesn't stop to grow on this thread).

I also think that it should not change Rome after everything that has already been discussed here. Just replying to Jarula

About Brazil, It was not clear whether during the golden ages, sambodromo will have +5 GAP.

About Venice, any progress with the image of the trading post?

 

[Blue Ghost]

About Brazil, It was not clear whether during the golden ages, sambodromo will have +5 GAP.

About Venice, any progress with the image of the trading post?

The Sambadrome currently does not have +5 GAP during golden ages. I find the concept kind of silly. Also, I prefer to stick with functions already in the SQL unless they’re really interesting, and I don’t think the proposal is interesting enough to qualify.

I think we should rework Venice. Venice really needs a military UU, especially as it’s the only base civ that does not have one. And I’m not really satisfied with either the trading post or laguna as currently implemented.

 

[Jarula]

Maybe then Latifundia could spawn automatically on nearby tile wheat or wine...

But also... I'm the one doing Rome... I signed up for it... and the other ones is already finished...

 

[pineappledan]

The only things I would correct for the French civ would be :
- Grande École
- Château
- Mousquetaire instead of Musketeer (since a "Musketeer" is basically a Musketman, and the French UM1 refers to the Musketeers of the King, or Mousquetaires du roi) if I want to be nitpicky

This relates to that better text modmod that we were talking about, but there are sooooo many things I would change about what civ uses for names

Aztec - Mexica
Inca - Tawantinsuyu
Jaguar - Ocelotl
floating garden - Chinampa
Musketeer - Mousquetaire
Sea Beggar - Watergeuzen
Mandekalu cavalry - Farari
Slinger - Huaraca
Mohawk Warrior - Rotisken’rakehte

doing this stuff shouldn't be part of this mod. May I would get around to a better text modmod for VP. With how VP has made new UCs, which all rely on the native language much more heavily than Vanilla civ, I think making a mod to update the names of some UCs would be good

The Sambadrome currently does not have +5 GAP during golden ages. I find the concept kind of silly. Also, I prefer to stick with functions already in the SQL unless they’re really interesting, and I don’t think the proposal is interesting enough to qualify.

Aw, I was actually pretty happy with that proposal. Every golden age would give you 5 gold & tourism per turn then, and a good lead on your next GA

I think we should rework Venice. Venice really needs a military UU, especially as it’s the only base civ that does not have one. And I’m not really satisfied with either the trading post or laguna as currently implemented.

I'm in full agreement here. The UI needs to go; Venice already has Colonias

 

[Jarula]

Why not give Venice the Doge's Palace?

A palace replacement shouldn't be OP grants gold and culture scaling per era for each incoming and outgoing trade route...

 

[pineappledan]

We aren't worried about OP'ness, Venice doesn't have a single unique unit.
Venice is ridiculous, really, currently they have:
4 wonders
2 improvements
1 great person
1 building

If we gave -1 UI and +1 wonder, then the problem is even WORSE. And I wouldn't take out the laguna because they don't have a UB at all then, and 5 UWs.
They need to have the galleas returned to them; it's right there in the base game. The laguna idea is good, but isn't satisfactory for balance right now.

What needs to be done with Venice is very straightforward: tweak existing UB, remove UI, give UU. Any other solution exacerbates the problems venice has.

 

[David de Vasconcelos]

Aw, I was actually pretty happy with that proposal. Every golden age would give you 5 gold & tourism per turn then, and a good lead on your next GA

I agree, as it stands now the Sambodromo looks a little weak, compared to the other replacements of Opera House.

Spoiler :

UB: Sambodromo (Opera House)
unlocked at acoustics
Requires amphitheatre in city
3 maintenance
+5 (up from +3)
+6
1 Musician specialist slot
Musician s Guilds in city produce +1 +2
+15% culture in city
+33% Great Musician rate in the city
+3 at Radio
1 Great Music Slot
WLTK starts in the city for 5 turns

We aren't worried about OP'ness, Venice doesn't have a single unique unit.
Venice is ridiculous, really, currently they have:
4 wonders
2 improvements
1 great person
1 building

If we gave -1 UI and +1 wonder, then the problem is even WORSE. And I wouldn't take out the laguna because they don't have a UB at all then, and 5 UWs.
They need to have the galleas returned to them; it's right there in the base game. The laguna idea is good, but isn't satisfactory for balance right now.

What needs to be done with Venice is very straightforward: tweak existing UB, remove UI, give UU. Any other solution exacerbates the problems venice has.

I liked the solution, Venice must have a naval unit.
Maybe make the market give more yields to Village and Colonia.

 

[Hinin]

We aren't worried about OP'ness, Venice doesn't have a single unique unit.
Venice is ridiculous, really, currently they have:
4 wonders
2 improvements
1 great person
1 building

If we gave -1 UI and +1 wonder, then the problem is even WORSE. And I wouldn't take out the laguna because they don't have a UB at all then, and 5 UWs.
They need to have the galleas returned to them; it's right there in the base game. The laguna idea is good, but isn't satisfactory for balance right now.

What needs to be done with Venice is very straightforward: tweak existing UB, remove UI, give UU. Any other solution exacerbates the problems venice has.

For the 3d model, the picture and the flag of the Venetian UM, we can still use the Great Galleass one (and retain the idea that it is mostly a bombardment ship). However, we need to find a better name and some other attributes for the unit.

PS : Just tested Assyria. I know nobody uses strategic view... but unfortunately the Iron Chariot flag isn't visible in this view... (sorry Blue Ghost).

 

[Blue Ghost]

PS : Just tested Assyria. I know nobody uses strategic view... but unfortunately the Iron Chariot flag isn't visible in this view... (sorry Blue Ghost).

Are you using the latest version of the mod? 'Cause I'm pretty sure that's fixed now.

 

[Hinin]

My bad... I'm using the previous one (because I didn't plan to use Egypt in my playtests this week).

Have a good week.

 

[David de Vasconcelos]

Rereading the discussion of the Sambódromo, @pineappledan said something interesting about what a UB for Brazil should have, I agree that a synergy with UA would be good. The period in which the sambodrome is in evidence is during the carnival.
Why not give a short carnival (5 turns) to the city after its construction and also when GM are generated in the city. (Not valid GM purchased).
Carnivals in the city with Sambodromo also generate GAPs.
I'm being annoying about the Sambódromo, but I think a change in that aspect would make it more interesting.

 

[Hinin]

The last VP version modifies Morocco and gives it what we intended to go give to the Barbary corsairs (the ability to plunder TR without declaring war) : it also make the choice of a pirate naval UM even more relevant.

 

[adan_eslavo]

This relates to that better text modmod that we were talking about, but there are sooooo many things I would change about what civ uses for names

Aztec - Mexica
Inca - Tawantinsuyu
Jaguar - Ocelotl
floating garden - Chinampa
Musketeer - Mousquetaire
Sea Beggar - Watergeuzen
Mandekalu cavalry - Farari
Slinger - Huaraca
Mohawk Warrior - Rotisken’rakehte

doing this stuff shouldn't be part of this mod. May I would get around to a better text modmod for VP. With how VP has made new UCs, which all rely on the native language much more heavily than Vanilla civ, I think making a mod to update the names of some UCs would be good

Aw, I was actually pretty happy with that proposal. Every golden age would give you 5 gold & tourism per turn then, and a good lead on your next GA

I'm in full agreement here. The UI needs to go; Venice already has Colonias

I'm definitely in that project. After we finish this expansion we can start that immediately and can help you code that. Beside UCs name I also would correct and make more consistent all descriptions and unit promotions names and also their descriptions. There's lot of mess in there.

What we can do for now is make such things available for UCs we've created. If you think names should be changed just give your suggestions. Then It would be only matter of update to original ones (ours would be ready).

@pineappledan May I ask if you checked those promotions descriptions I asked you before? Did you found something to correct? I'm just curious.

It should be done for sure because when I'm coding right now Netherlands I can see:
Sea Beggar vs Polder (same for dutch and english), Goedendag (no english name) and Waag (Weigh House).

Theres also another side of the coin: would you like to rename Ducal Stable to Stajnie Książęce? :] There would be some problem with pronounciation.

 

[Blue Ghost]

It’s a matter of personal taste, but I prefer leaning more toward English names, for the sake of accessibility to an English-speaking audience. I think base Civ got the balance mostly right in that regard.

Currently playing a game as China. Observations so far:

In the Renaissance era, the Examination Hall is generating 90 GPP every time a citizen is born, which fills up most of the bar. I think the GPP on citizen birth should not scale with era. 40 flat?

The Xiafan Guanjun is most useful as a military unit, rather than for exploration or gaining CS influence. By the time it’s unlocked, I already have caravels exploring the sea, and it’s not worth it to build them just to station them in a CS. It’s a mighty fine naval unit though, especially as with its high base combat strength they can make up my entire fleet without support. Maybe when the political situation calms down I’ll send them off to the city-states and see how much difference they make.

 

[pineappledan]

@adan_eslavo I only noticed 1 spelling error w.r.t. promotions: the seir morb's crouching tiger promotion line was spelled "croaching". That's all I found

EDIT: w.r.t. our own UCs, if we were to take a hard line on using culturally appropriate endonyms instead of English words, then here's the 4UC list:
Yellow Brow - "Ohamupe"
Buffalo Pound - Pis'kun (A blackfoot word, really, but I can't find a shoshone equivalent)
Eagle Warrior - Cuauhtli
Sambadrome - Sambodromo
Scythed Chariot - Covinni
Examination Hall - Kao-Chang
Mud Mosque Pyramid - Jingaray

Then there's the endonyms for singular things, like the university of Coimbra or the 6 horns council.



@Blue Ghost I think it can scale with era, but as I was saying before, the GP starting scaler needs to be way smaller. the first GP is built at only 100 GPPs, and at medieval when this building comes out you are unlikely to even have built your first musician, artist, diplomat or possibly merchant. I think it should be reduced to 15. That's still a full 15% of your first GP, compare that to Arabia's UA which gives 20%

re: the Xiafan, this is why I didn't advocate for supply on the unit.
It's ranged to it doesn't take damage as a matter of course, so having them be able to heal makes them completely independent
The support that these ships received from the supply ships in the fleets was meant to be reflected in their high defensive power, but if you want it reflected by supply then I don't think you can have both. Having both high defense and supply takes the ship from powerful to unkillable.
The Xiafan Guanjun always returned to China at the end of the day. They didn't resupply in foreign ports or "rough it" in the wilderness or on islands like some European pirates and explorers.

Having that promotion also disincentivizes the grande canal wonder which is a contemporary world congress project

 

[De_Genius]

Spoiler Netherlands v2 :

UM - Goedendag (replaces Pikeman): Decreased cost to 100 Production. Has 16 CP. Has the "Burgemeeste" (+25% CS when standing on a tile with luxury resource), "Goedendag!" (+10% CS against mounted units. +10% CS for all adjacent ally units). City growth stagnates during construction (50% of food converted to production in city, like settler).
UB - Waag (replaces Bank): Available at Civil Service. Does not require market. +2 Gold, 2 Merchant Specialists Slot. +2% GPP and 3 CP in the city for every traded luxury resource from other empires (max 20% and 30 ). 15% of Gold spent is converted into Science. +1 Gold for Markets, Carvansaries and Customs Houses in the city. Reduces Crime and Poverty (-10%). Gold +3 Gold, Silver +1 Gold, +1 Production and +1 Culture, Gems +1 Gold and +1 Culture.

I like the +CS when near luxuries for the Goedendag, since it plays very well with the whole Dutch mind set of luxuries en masse. Overall I like this version a lot.
Regarding the Waag I don't really like the "Reduces Crime and Poverty (-10%)." part, since it already provides more gold and defence, so it would be double effective. Otherwise I think it sounds cool and also very coherent with luxury spam

 

[adan_eslavo]

Reduced poverty and crime could stay because waag only adds 1 gold to market and 1 more merchant.

 

[pineappledan]

EDIT: Jan 9

Updated Art/Code package
SQL for 10 UCs complete. Has not been tested. .lua not completed

- Huns, Korea, Songhai, Zulu & Inca only require .lua code and testing now​

Added artwork for 2 units which would be better than what we are currently using

- Hashemite Raider: added Dervish icon and unit textures. Should be a simple matter of renaming the .dds files and replacing the current ones.
- Iron Chariot: Currently using a ranged unit model even though the unit is melee. I have included icons, unit model & art defines for a melee chariot
​

China Exam hall icon art not included; it is loose elsewhere in the forum

Spoiler :

Huns
Tarhkan - Text, SQL & Art Complete lua for 1 promotion

• Requires lua for 'sacker' promotion
• Requires editing for 'migration' promotion lua

6 Horns Council - Text, SQL & Art Complete

• Requires .lua for tribute bonuses (city state & major civ)

Lua script for modification to horse archer (new promotion)

Inca
Chasqui - Text, SQL & Art Complete

• Requires lua for 'Chasquiwasi' promotion

Tambo - Text, SQL & Art Complete

• Requires lua for adding/removing bonus promotions for Coca monopoly

Songhai
Sofa - Text, SQL & Art Complete

• Requires .lua for 'Father of the Horse' promotion (2 range mounted CS boost)

Qadi - Text, SQL & Art Complete

• Requires .lua for 'jizya' gold bonus
• Requires .lua for production to culture converter (only science converter exists)

Zulu
InDuna - Text, SQL & Art Complete

• Added possible alternative art. InDuna currently using single Impi Unit model, no alterations
• Requires .lua for 'Indaba' promotion (XP on unit expending)

Iziko - Text, SQL & Art Complete

• Requires .lua for culture on unit levels

Korea
Kobukseon - Complete
Chaebol - Text, SQL & Art Complete

• Requires .lua for gold/GPP for international trade routes

Arabia
New/better Hashemite unit art and Icon

Assyria
New/better unit model, animations and Icons

Germany
Slaganz - Icons, Text, Code, Unit Model
Teutonic Order - will use current Order Icon, New Custom Icon for base Order

Portugal
University of Coimbra - Custom Icons

Japan
Yamato - Art defines, Icons, Unit model, custom animation scripts, text
Kabuki - Art defines, Icons

Austria
Schutzenstande - Custom Icons

Brazil
Pracinha - pre-existing in vanilla
Sambadrome - icons, text, art defines

Maya
Holkan - Art defines, Text, Icons, Unit model
Pitz Court - Art defines, Text, Icons

Rome
Catapult -pre-existing in vanilla
Latifundia - Art defines, Text, Icons, Model, plot iterator and resource placement .lua code
Figs - Custom Icons, text, models, a copy of my own abortive attempt at coding art defines for Flax, but can serve as a start for here as well

Carthage
Shofet - Art defines, Icons, Unit model, text, .lua code
Tofet - Custom Icons

Morocco
Corsair - Art defines, Icons, Unit model (Note: the base unit and art defines for this unit were for a great admiral. The code attached must be heavily modified for a military unit)
Riad - Art defines, Text, Icons, Unit model

Persia
Qizilbash - Art defines, Text, Icons, Unit model, lua script for unique promotion, dummy building code for unique promotion
Pairidaeza - Art defines, Icons

Venice
Fusta - Code, Icon, Unit Model (needs new unit class, heavy adjustments to coding required

 

[Hinin]

W.R.T. certain UCs which are organizations more than buildings, should we just use their crests? Specifically the Standschutzen and Teutonic Order, which we don't have assets for yet:

For the Teutonic Order, I agree with you (since the picture of the teutonic red fortress is already used for the Order building). I may have another picture for you.

Spoiler Teutonic Order :

For the Standschützen, I think a variation of a modern barrack would be better (we are talking about a "shooting club"). Also, I think we should change the name of the UB to "Schützenstand", since a "Standschütze" is a rifleman while a "Schützenstand" is a shooting club (I know I was the one who proposed Standschütze as the name of the UB, but reading more about it made me realize my mistake).

 

[adan_eslavo]

Why don't you just use picture of castle of Malbork where Teutonic Order had its capital? I personally don't like the idea of not using building picture for UW (same situation like for Sachem's Council). Or you could use ready castle in Ordenburg.